Iranian Air Defense Systems

[TheImmortal]

It is same cold lunch implemented on original TOR...missile is ejected than side boosters will kick off and direct missile in right direction....it is fully mobile short range SAM..it must engage target in seconds ....it is small misile..no need for large amount of energy....so you dont see smoke..S-300 use tvc to direct missile in right direction..but with short range SAM you need much faster acceleration and better response so everything is accelerated,TOR use same cold lunch tech as S/300 ...

Bro you can clearly see the fuse on fire light the engine. I’m starting to wonder why you spread misinformation

I heard it in the forum here to use kinetic energy or spring. Nothing official.

If true it is even better than gas driven cold launch.

Cold launch also uses side spring around the vacuum chamber above the protection rubber plate but pure spring is a break through.

Anyway, these are speculations only.

Yes spring launches the missile, but engine needs to turn on. In Russian missiles the engine is programmed to turn on after X amount of time based on pressure difference (similar to a sub launch missile breaking the water).

In Iran’s you can clearly see the fuse is on fire when it goes up then you hear the crackle as it lights the engine and then engine kicks on.

 

[Shawnee]

Bro you can clearly see the fuse on fire light the engine. I’m starting to wonder why you spread misinformation


Yes spring launches the missile, but engine needs to turn on. In Russian missiles the engine is programmed to turn on after X amount of time based on pressure difference (similar to a sub launch missile breaking the water).

In Iran’s you can clearly see the fuse is on fire when it goes up then you hear the crackle as it lights the engine and then engine kicks on.

Very limited frame rate but this is it:
Fragments, track mark, maybe black cloud?
Then side nozzles

 

[TheImmortal]

Very limited frame rate but this is it:
Fragments, track mark, maybe black cloud?
Then side nozzles

View attachment 784761
View attachment 784762

Part of ignition is unfortunately not in this (last) frame but you can see it if you play the video 1:27-1:28 mark the engine kicks on from initial fuse.

 

[TheImmortal]

Compare this to TOR-M2

Another launch (another example)

I respectfully disagree with @sanel1412 these are same launch technology

For one the Russian missile ignites Almost immed and is a much faster missile than Iranian one. Likely because TOR-M2 uses a different missile than TOR-M1 or whatever Iranian missile is in Oghab if Iran changed the missile.

 

[Sineva]

This is one weird cold launch technology. Instead of being pushed out via cold gas and then the engine turning on after a delay.

It seems it gets pushed out and there is a timed fuse on fire on the missile when it’s coming out which then lights the missile engine to take off.

Anyone else notice this?

Heres a slow mo of a tor launch,right after the missile is ejected you can see the small solid fueled rocket motors on the nose of the missile firing to orient the missile in the direction of the target.
This is a system thats used on some russian cruise missiles as well,such as the p800 oniks/yakhont

https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryGfys/comments/336hkc

 

[TheImmortal]

Heres a slow mo of a tor launch,right after the missile is ejected you can see the small solid fueled rocket motors on the nose of the missile firing to orient the missile in the direction of the target.
This is a system thats used on some russian cruise missiles as well,such as the p800 oniks/yakhont

https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryGfys/comments/336hkc

Yes, Iran’s doesn’t orient itself using side boosters. Look at Iran video the exhaust plume is straight down rather than at an angle like your example and my example.

Very few Iran AD missiles do horizontal orientation (I think only one I can recall is one of the Sayyad’s and now two with Morpheus).

Proof is right here- exhaust plume from engine start up is nearly vertical. Thus there Is no horizontal orientation from side boosters like in Russian missiles.

Thus one must speculate that isn’t a side booster for horizontal orientation, but a timed fuse to ignite the engine.

 

[Shawnee]

Yes, Iran’s doesn’t orient itself using side boosters. Look at Iran video the exhaust plume is straight down rather than at an angle like your example and my example.

Very few Iran AD missiles do horizontal orientation (I think only one I can recall is one of the Sayyad’s and now two with Morpheus).

View attachment 784787

Proof is right here- exhaust plume from engine start up is nearly vertical. Thus there Is no horizontal orientation from side boosters like in Russian missiles.

Thus one must speculate that isn’t a side booster for horizontal orientation, but a timed fuse to ignite the engine.

I think what you see as a fuse or maybe let’s call it flash is the ignition of side nozzles but side nozzles did not aim to reorient it at least in this test.

Look at the arrows for the bottom of the missile and side nozzles.

 

[Sineva]

Yes, Iran’s doesn’t orient itself using side boosters. Look at Iran video the exhaust plume is straight down rather than at an angle like your example and my example.

Very few Iran AD missiles do horizontal orientation (I think only one I can recall is one of the Sayyad’s and now two with Morpheus).

View attachment 784787

Proof is right here- exhaust plume from engine start up is nearly vertical. Thus there Is no horizontal orientation from side boosters like in Russian missiles.

Thus one must speculate that isn’t a side booster for horizontal orientation, but a timed fuse to ignite the engine.

Right,I see what you`re getting at now,and you`re right the vertical orientation is weird for a tor m1,usually you have the firing of the nose thrusters for positioning first and then firing of the main motor once the missile has begun to rotate into a horizontal attitude.
I came across a video of a night time firing of a newer tor m2u system,and what it shows is very interesting,because with this version you can clearly see the main motor firing first,and likely the positioning thrusters firing just a milisecond later.
I think that they may have done this to shave a second or two off of the launch sequence,which doesnt sound like much,but for a shorad even seconds count during an engagement.

The sequence starts @0:22

So what we could be looking at here is a faster modified launch sequence for the dezful based on later improvements to the newer tor models.
Instead of two separate steps where the positioning thrusters were fired first,and only when the missile had begun to rotate towards the horizontal was the main motor fired,here you have one step,with the positioning thrusters firing while the main motor is also firing.

 

[EvilWesteners]

Regarding Iran's new SHORAD that looks like an old Tor-M1 ... I read that SOME of the posts here are based on disappointment with Iran copying an old technology.

May I be allowed to offer a different PERSPECTIVE here:

I use a software for my work even these day that I got from work some 20 years ago, and it had been developed in Oxford in 1998 or about then. The newer versions are better though, but the French alternative is incredible. This piece of software is clunky and a 100% pain in the @$$ to use, without a shadow of a doubt. Not wanting to bore everyone here with fancy technical mumbo jumbo, let's just call this software SSA, and let's say it is a HYDRA CFD (used for fluid dynamics for gas turbine engine design).

SSA is one of the most painful and nightmarish pieces of software for mathematical modeling I have ever used, and I honestly think i have used them all. IT IS THAT BAD. Absolute nightmare.

It was about $50K a long time ago, and it could only be used/run on RISC-based sparcstation that could run this ****ing thing.

Now I have transferred it to a high end laptop, and built an emulator (operating system) to run it and use it at work.

So, why the hell did I do that ????

BECAUSE I CAN USE IT WELL AFTER INVESTING SO MUCH TIME BETWEEN 1999-2003. BECAUSE I CAN USE IF FASTER THAN ALL THE NEW ONES THAT HAVE 1000 MORE ADVANCED FEATURES. BECAUSE I CAN DO A PIECE OF PRESENTATION WITH DATA EXTRACTED IN A MATTER OF 6 HOURS. I CAN DO MIRACLES WITH THIS ****ING SOFTWARE AT WORK.

That's why I spend lots of money and time to build an emulator for it so I can continue to use the stupid software that I hate so much.

Iran was offered (I would say had no choice) and got Tor-m1 in place of mig-31s (second time disappointed) which after paying for, the U.S. interceded and Russia refused to honor the contract and deliver the migs, and for the money it offered Iran the Tor's.

Actually, right around the time that I started with SSA software (give or take a bit).

My point:

Iran knows Tor-M really, really well. I am assuming, it knows all of its good and bad points, and knows how to use it well (yes I know it shot down a passenger airliner, but for that I blame the commander and the operator, and Rohani for refusing to shut down the commercial air traffic because his office wanted Iran to continue collecting for air space usage fees).

Once you know a system EXTREMELY WELL, you can use it in very creative ways, and that experience gives you incredible leverage in both usage and time investment. YES, YES, at some point technology moves on and you have to move with it. Using an F-14A today is nonsense. Iran needs a better fighter jet, with a realistic hybrid PESA radar, IRST/FLIR, ECM and ECCM, IRST/AR warning systems, etc.

But Tor-M (old technology) is a subset of an overall Air Defense Platform & Strategic Coverage. There is ROOM (IMO) in Iran's air defense for something like a Tor-M (even somewhat older ones, though I hope they have at least more powerful, much faster digital processing using advanced computers for data processor, lower S/N ratios, multiple discrete channels, better transmitters, better digital signal processing hardware that is available OTS in Malaysia, and I would keep my list to just that).

If Iran is using this platform in a creative way, in innovative strategic aggregated air defense, for certain defense scenarios against certain adversaries, then we may all be surprised how well Iranian AD experts have thought this through.

Or may be even, Iran has literally done nothing other than replaced the tracked vehicle with wheeled vehicle, and may be even a few basic updates. Who can be 100% sure? I have not seen the quantities to tell me that it definitely is being mass produced.

The other things Iran is doing with SHRAD is impressive, I had heard about it from someone more than couple of months ago. I was waiting to see it.

Good news for Iran.

More good news coming.

Stay well. Long live Iran.

 

[Sineva]

I decided to finally clean this up into one pic

And this is a close up of the radar

Interestingly it looks like its got 2 sets of antennas,you`ve got the rotating antenna on top,and what looks like it could be a set of 4 fixed panel [aesa?] antennas underneath.

 

[Sineva]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448236192936439808

 

[Sineva]

Some more pics of the Joshan pesa radar

I`ve gotta say,I`m getting a real s300 gravestone/tombstone radar vibe off of this system,it does bear more than just a passing resemblance,plus going for pesa when you already have excellent working aesas?.
Is it a reverse/reengineered iranian copy of the gravestone?,or is it just a look a like with very different engineering and capabilities?
It`d be interesting to know if its primarily just for fire control like the gravestone,or whether it has search capabilities like the patriot sams mpq-53 search+fire control radar.
This is a real puzzle.

 

[sanel1412]

Could the Joshan pesa be added to Bavar to make it passive, if the need should arise?
Can a system have both an aesa and pesa and switch between them?

PESA is not passive radar...it is named pesa because it use one transmitter for all arrays ,unlike AESA...where all modules are also transmitters and recivers but PESA is radar which transmit and recive signals as any radar...

 

[Messerschmitt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448514484746731520

 

[Messerschmitt]