Iranian Air Defense Systems

[Mr Iran Eye]

I like it better on the wheel and it is clear that it is an improved version because we can see that the optics are improved

 

[NaCon]

photoshoped image of how it might look like with 8 missiles per launcher

 

[Philip the Arab]

whats IP?

Intellectual property such as datapacks of missiles.

Basically the run down is that the UAE paid for the development of these 2 missiles when Denel was still functional but wanted their full info and got the datapacks illegaly.

They are now much more independent than before but still dependent on South African contractors and import a ton of parts from India which is a fairly secure import partner for them.

 

[TheImmortal]

Radar is not model..it doesnt go to fashion week in Milano..for god sake...more modern radar..what that even mean..Tor is best you can get in short range class...Russians deployed it in Syria after Pantsir show too many flaws...Tor crews could catch even bird,plastic drones..and engage it..it is Shorad...it will be last defense..it will engage at few km range...it has Kasta 2E included as search radar and it has also own acquisition radar...So,it is very mobile,accurate..can detect and lock on on the move while it stop only half second to lunch missile..what is modern?...large static missile system like Israel deploy that can only survive Palestinian rocks..Tor is unique and modern system,development started long time ago but it is modernized every while..I would always preffer it over Pantsir...Pantsir showed flawed which prompted Russians to request new version for its troops,Syrian AD now use BUK more extensive and they are more succesfull....I heard that in some cases Pantsir was used only at extremly short range where it can use gun...it wasnt good as Tor when it comes to very small targets at low attlitude

Russian TOR deployed in Syria is TOR-M2E non export version.

Iran has TOR-M1. There is a big difference between the two.

Inside TOR-1

Inside of TOR-M2

“The Tor M2/M2E is a “deep modernisation” of the baseline Tor M1 weapon system

The Tor M2E has an improved weapon system. The new planar array surveillance radar can track up to 48 targets concurrently, retaining the range performance of the legacy system. The revised phased array engagement radar uses new phase shifters, and is capable of tracking targets within a claimed 30° solid angle around the antenna boresight. Paired command link antennas are mounted on both sides of the array, used to acquire the missiles post launch, while they are out of the field of view of the engagement radar array. Missiles can be launched 2 seconds apart. The manufacturer has identified the missile design as an area of future improvement, the turret permitting the carriage of a large number of smaller and lighter future missiles.”

Not to mention TOR-M2 now uses a newer missile better suited for smaller object interception.

So yes what Iran has is basically a Cold War era system. A simple EO/IO would have prevented the system from confusing a civilian airliner with a cruise missile.

 

[sanel1412]

Tor is intended to be used at worst place you can be..battlefield..that is why it has unique capabilities,because it suppose to protect troops from everything..mortars,shells,missiles,aircrafts..and it is also capable to protect itself,this is where most systems are bad...due these reasons it is developed to be fast,responsive...it can engage at minus attlitude..which only few system can..you can take module from tracked chasis and put it on ship..everywhere and it will work..M2 version got more channels and double missile magazine which make it even better

 

[SalarHaqq]

Russian TOR deployed in Syria is TOR-M2E non export version.

Iran has TOR-M1. There is a big difference between the two.

Inside TOR-1

View attachment 784645


Inside of TOR-M2

“The Tor M2/M2E is a “deep modernisation” of the baseline Tor M1 weapon system

The Tor M2E has an improved weapon system. The new planar array surveillance radar can track up to 48 targets concurrently, retaining the range performance of the legacy system. The revised phased array engagement radar uses new phase shifters, and is capable of tracking targets within a claimed 30° solid angle around the antenna boresight. Paired command link antennas are mounted on both sides of the array, used to acquire the missiles post launch, while they are out of the field of view of the engagement radar array. Missiles can be launched 2 seconds apart. The manufacturer has identified the missile design as an area of future improvement, the turret permitting the carriage of a large number of smaller and lighter future missiles.”

Not to mention TOR-M2 uses a newer missile better suited for smaller object interception.

So yes what Iran is basically a Cold War era system.

Iran's Tor has at least one component not present on the most elementary version of the system. Much like Iran's S-300 has some component from the S-400 in fact.

 

[sanel1412]

photoshoped image of how it might look like with 8 missiles per launcher
View attachment 784644

It doesnt matter how many missiles you put on truck..it is important how many it can engage in same time..it is always better to have less missiles on more trucks,it provides better redundancy ,if you put all missiles on one TEL,enemy needs only one missile to knock it out...you can always add more TELs ..but as I said..it all depends how many targets it can engage in same time

 

[TheImmortal]

the same thing also crossed today my mind
what if thats just an cannibalised russian Tor put on a truck?

Not if, I’m convinced this is Tor-M1 put on a truck. The question is why. I assume the command center in the truck is upgraded similar to other command centers in Iran’s AD trucks. But the radar staying the same along with the missile.

Looks like modernization job from analog to digital.

 

[aryobarzan]

In a way it is not so bad to buy the older systems that are less digitized and use the basics to design a fully digitized Iranian version..Imagine if Iran had to deal with Russian legacy software....They will skin you to give you the source code and if you do not have the source code then you need to be their bitch to get any new update..

 

[SalarHaqq]

the same thing also crossed today my mind
what if thats just an cannibalised russian Tor put on a truck?

There are various differences in the details of Iran's Russian-imported Tor and in Dezful. That square with rivets on the second cell could be anything, we need exact knowledge of the system's architecture to draw conclusions.

 

[TheImmortal]

Iran's Tor has at least one component not present on the most elementary version of the system. Much like Iran's S-300 has some component from the S-400 in fact.

Lipstick on a pig.

S-300 is a terrible example. For one, Iran received its S-300 recently at a time when there was no longer an S-300 production line anymore. It was shut down to make way for S-400 and S-500 line. Thus it was assembled using parts of existing S-400 line.

ToR-m1 was recieved 13 years ago and was a basic version. Iran upgraded the range by lifting export restriction in the coding of the software. But since then the system has remained largely untouched minus the component you mention. The radar and missile have all been upgraded in newer models along with the switch to digital.

 

[SalarHaqq]

ToR-m1 was recieved 13 years ago and was a basic version. Iran upgraded the range by lifting export restriction in the coding of the software. But since then the system has remained largely untouched minus the component you mention. The radar and missile have all been upgraded in newer models along with the switch to digital.

Which could be the case of Dezful. Also, to my knowledge no recent images of the interior of Iran's imported Tors were released so here too, potential modernization is not out of the question.

 

[TheImmortal]

The entire bottom row or basis of the structure is completely different in Iran's Russian-imported Tor and in Dezful. That square with rivets on the second cell could be anything, we need exact knowledge of the system's architecture to draw conclusions.

Doesn’t explain why you would use same radar and array when Iran has access to the latest radars. The difference is evident by comparing Morpheus and Dezful and tech that was incorporated into both.

 

[WudangMaster]

Could the Joshan pesa be added to Bavar to make it passive, if the need should arise?
Can a system have both an aesa and pesa and switch between them?

 

[SalarHaqq]

Doesn’t explain why you would use same radar and array when Iran has access to the latest radars. The difference is evident by comparing Morpheus and Dezful and tech that was incorporated into both.

I have no idea about the radars and arrays to be honest. On the other hand why would the IRGC dismount the launching system from its tracked chassis and put it on a truck while modifying the bottom half of it, and then present it as an indigenous weapon? What would the purpose of such an effort be?

By the way Tor M-1 or 9K331 was released in 1991 ie at the very end of the Cold War. The vintage 9K330 which entered service in 1986 is simply called Tor apparently (without the -M1 suffix).