Iranian Air Defense Systems

[Oldman1]

I am aware of that, what I meant is that if S-200 outlive their usefulness in air defence role, they should still be highly useful for anti ship role.

It all depends on money and is it worth converting it to anti ship role when newer systems could do the job and better.

 

[Rukarl]

It all depends on money and is it worth converting it to anti ship role when newer systems could do the job and better.

They probably will just get rid of them, but from I see in Iran, if they can keep a system and use it, they will. Besides, I doubt Iran has that many s-200 launchers anyway. But you're correct, their anti ship ballistic missile like Persian gulf missile, hormuz-1 and 2 are much more capable.

 

[Ibrahim2006]

I hope member yavar will soon say something about Bavar-373

Yavar is banned till next month . when he comes maybe he shed light on some of the question

 

[Ibrahim2006]

 

[NADIM]

Commander: Iran to Put into
Operation Home-Made Bavar-373
Missile Shield Soon
TEHRAN (FNA)- Iran will put into operation its
home-made version of the sophisticated Russian
S-300 missile defense system, dubbed as Bavar
(Belief) 373, in the near future, a senior
commander announced on Monday, adding that
the two systems play complementary roles for
each other.
"The radar and missile defense system,
Bavar-373, is a powerful and fully indigenous
supplement for the S-300 defense system which
will be put into operation soon," Commander of
Khatam ol-Anbia Air Defense Base Brigadier
General Farzad Esmayeeli said.
"The S-300 and Bavar-373 systems will be highly
lethal for the enemy," he added.
Noting that Iran is also building two other defense
systems named Talash 2 and Talash 3, Esmayeeli
said that the country no more needs the Russian-
made S-400 missile shield.
In similar remarks on Thursday, Iranian Defense
Minister Brigadier General Hossein Dehqan
underlined that the Russian S-300 missile defense
system is enough to defend the country against
high-altitude threats, and said Tehran doesn’t
intend to purchase the S-400 shield.
"We produce (defense) systems at three levels to
provide the needs of the country's air defense and
security and we had some deficiencies in
(defending the country against the) high altitude
(threats) which were removed by purchasing the
S-300," General Dehqan said in a press
conference in the Central city of Isfahan.
Asked if Iran seeks to buy the S-400 missile
defense system from Russia too, he said, "We
don’t need to buy another system anymore and
we can meet our needs by production (of home-
made defense systems)".
Earlier this month, Iran unveiled the Bavar (Belief)
373 missile shield.
The indigenized strategic product was unveiled in
a ceremony in Tehran participated by Iranian
President Hassan Rouhani.
Iran designed and developed its own version of
the S-300 missile shield after the Russians
shrugged off delivery of their advanced missile
defense system to Iran on the pretext of the UN
Security Council sanctions.
The Iranian version has superior features over the
original Russian model as it enjoys increased
mobility, agility and reduced launch-preparation
time.
Iranian commanders had earlier said that Bavar
373 is similar to its original Russian model and
traces and intercepts high-altitude targets.
After the removal of sanctions, Russia delivered
half of S-300 air defense systems to Iran under
the existing contract.
Head of Russia's Rostec corporation, Sergei
Chemezov, said in July that Russia was planning
to complete the deliveries of the S-300 air
defense systems to Iran by the end of 2016.

 

[Arminkh]

They need to change its camouflage. Its not suitable for Iran.

 

[BlueInGreen]

As per usual the US and my fellow American citizens have completely discredited and by in large disregarded the potency of the this heavily upgraded and customized S-300 missile defense system which from what I know will be integrated into a nation wide Iranian multi-tier air defense network comprising of many different and equally potent systems all complementing each other in different ways.

But this is not in essence what I wanted to shed light upon in this post. What I want to present for discussion is a retrospective/holistic look on how the entire Iranian Air defense network stacks up to the US and Israel plus the PERSIAN gulf states in a potential attack (which by all indications is still very, very likely sorry to say) and how accurately we can assess the effectiveness of Iran's upgraded and very deadly air defense network.

First I would like to start off with every Americans point of reference, Iraq ( I am fully aware that Iran is not Iraq ). Many here in the US simply don't know or don't care about what factors went into the multiple defeats of Iraq and the final defeat of Saddam's military back in 2003. Most Americans would like to believe that there was some kind of military parity between the US and Iraq but the reality was Iraq was in COMPLETE shambles and disarray before the 2003 invasion, with the sanctions that contributed to the killing of over 500,000 Iraqi children and Saddam's stupid policies that lead to many in the military not wanting to fight for Iraq or for Saddam. The sanctions themselves completely destroyed Iraq's ability to acquire military equipment, so most of their Air craft were not at full fighting capacity and their air defense were simply not adequate enough to stop or deter any attack by the US air force and Navy what-so-ever. And probably one of the biggest issues at least when I look at it. Iran, due to the sanctions, was forced to arm itself while Iraq just relied on outside military equipment (big mistake for a nation at war, to not have an industrial base for fighting). So knowing this, my fellow Americans still like to believe that the US military can strike WITH IMPUNITY at any time it want's and completely omit any danger to its attacking force ( now I know that the Americans here are more aware and educated on the actual lethality of the US military and make no mistake the US is very lethal but to my fellow Americans you know exactly what I am talking about when I talk about the 'Murican pride and no one can beat us or defend themselves from us attitude).

When this it taken into account, the next thing to talk about is the actual attack on Iraq's infrastructure itself. This point that I will bring up will be my own assessment that is based on mostly fact but some speculations as well. It is well known that the US used the F-15, F-16, B-52's and B-2's and many other complementary air craft that provided air support, early warning and electronic war fare capabilities. But what I think most people don't mention is the speculated use of small scale nuclear or neutron weapons which worked to completely quell Iraq's existing defense network or whatever was left of it. These nuclear/neutron bombs are very deadly and completely destroy it's target and other electronic equipment around it ( this is obviously the speculation part of this post with regard to the neutron bombs capability to destroy electronic equipment) all the while Tomahawk cruise missiles were being launched from Arleigh-Burke class destroyer as well as the Ticonderoga class destroyers with F-18's flying from US super carriers in the Persian Gulf all hitting at the same time, all of Iraq's critical infrastructure (power generation, military etc...).

So, when this situation is potentially applied to the Iran, and if the goal of the US ( Israel and the rest included, you guys know who they are) is to destroy Iran's nuclear infrastructure, there really is no other alternative other then full out war since Iran will not just sit and let it's source of national energy and pride just be destroyed because other nations sad it can't have it due to "terrorism" and supposed genocidal ambitions ( Total destruction of Israel, I don't believe in this crap by the way lol).

Based on what I have learned over the 5-6 years on IMF (Iranian military forum) Iran's air defense network is comprised of both western and indigenous systems that work in tandem it seems. There is the HAWK, zu-23-2, S-300, Talash 3, Herz 9, S-200, Sayyad missiles and the newly made Bavar-373 and many other home made defense systems. BUT and this is a vey big but, is it all enough to stop or deter an attack? Given the history of both US and Israel (these two countries are the only two I honestly see ever conducting an attack on Iranian soil for any reason) the attack will most likely be a saturated one that will be composed of air, land and sea multi-pronged strikes that will test many aspects of Iran's defense structure. The long range high altitude defense of the S-300 and Bavar 373 will be imperative in fending off many of the more potent enemy attacks while the medium to lower range defense systems will be used to clean up whatever is left that made it through.

It's just that, as an American ( my parents are Iranian and I was born here in the states, I have a strong connection to Iran, so naturally I get worried for Iran's well-being since many of my family members and in Iran, actually most of my family members are in Iran )

I do think that Iran's current Air defense network is adequate and beyond deadly to any air force but will it be enough to stop the US and Israel in the future ( the US will most likely be more hawkish after Obama leaves ).

As always to everyone here no matter what country or religion you are, stay healthy and safe.

Thank you very much for reading this post,

P.S: If you guys wanna add to this go right ahead and if I made some factual inaccuracies please feel free to correct me.

 

[zestokryl]

Based on what I have learned over the 5-6 years on IMF (Iranian military forum) Iran's air defense network is comprised of both western and indigenous systems that work in tandem it seems. There is the HAWK, zu-23-2, S-300, Talash 3, Herz 9, S-200, Sayyad missiles and the newly made Bavar-373 and many other home made defense systems. BUT and this is a vey big but, is it all enough to stop or deter an attack?

Question is pointless

Does the fact Bush administration refrained themselves from attacking Iran, tells you something

Iran is no Iraq or Libia, regardless of any military technicality. iran is whole different leaugue

Of course, Bush administration dropping the idea of agression against Iran is to some extent they own fault, since they were stuck i the iraqi mud, rendering them easy targets for iranian missiles

Iran has steady militarily improving track record. Iran is not arab country, which they crooked, treacherous, bask stabbing mentality. Iran is no prone to easy internal destabilization

Iran had much weaker air defence in 2007, but the american administration restricted theirs actions, only to the treats and satanization. Meaning its not AD that made the difference

Iran is tough nut to crack

 

[Arminkh]

As per usual the US and my fellow American citizens have completely discredited and by in large disregarded the potency of the this heavily upgraded and customized S-300 missile defense system which from what I know will be integrated into a nation wide Iranian multi-tier air defense network comprising of many different and equally potent systems all complementing each other in different ways.

But this is not in essence what I wanted to shed light upon in this post. What I want to present for discussion is a retrospective/holistic look on how the entire Iranian Air defense network stacks up to the US and Israel plus the PERSIAN gulf states in a potential attack (which by all indications is still very, very likely sorry to say) and how accurately we can assess the effectiveness of Iran's upgraded and very deadly air defense network.

First I would like to start off with every Americans point of reference, Iraq ( I am fully aware that Iran is not Iraq ). Many here in the US simply don't know or don't care about what factors went into the multiple defeats of Iraq and the final defeat of Saddam's military back in 2003. Most Americans would like to believe that there was some kind of military parity between the US and Iraq but the reality was Iraq was in COMPLETE shambles and disarray before the 2003 invasion, with the sanctions that contributed to the killing of over 500,000 Iraqi children and Saddam's stupid policies that lead to many in the military not wanting to fight for Iraq or for Saddam. The sanctions themselves completely destroyed Iraq's ability to acquire military equipment, so most of their Air craft were not at full fighting capacity and their air defense were simply not adequate enough to stop or deter any attack by the US air force and Navy what-so-ever. And probably one of the biggest issues at least when I look at it. Iran, due to the sanctions, was forced to arm itself while Iraq just relied on outside military equipment (big mistake for a nation at war, to not have an industrial base for fighting). So knowing this, my fellow Americans still like to believe that the US military can strike WITH IMPUNITY at any time it want's and completely omit any danger to its attacking force ( now I know that the Americans here are more aware and educated on the actual lethality of the US military and make no mistake the US is very lethal but to my fellow Americans you know exactly what I am talking about when I talk about the 'Murican pride and no one can beat us or defend themselves from us attitude).

When this it taken into account, the next thing to talk about is the actual attack on Iraq's infrastructure itself. This point that I will bring up will be my own assessment that is based on mostly fact but some speculations as well. It is well known that the US used the F-15, F-16, B-52's and B-2's and many other complementary air craft that provided air support, early warning and electronic war fare capabilities. But what I think most people don't mention is the speculated use of small scale nuclear or neutron weapons which worked to completely quell Iraq's existing defense network or whatever was left of it. These nuclear/neutron bombs are very deadly and completely destroy it's target and other electronic equipment around it ( this is obviously the speculation part of this post with regard to the neutron bombs capability to destroy electronic equipment) all the while Tomahawk cruise missiles were being launched from Arleigh-Burke class destroyer as well as the Ticonderoga class destroyers with F-18's flying from US super carriers in the Persian Gulf all hitting at the same time, all of Iraq's critical infrastructure (power generation, military etc...).

So, when this situation is potentially applied to the Iran, and if the goal of the US ( Israel and the rest included, you guys know who they are) is to destroy Iran's nuclear infrastructure, there really is no other alternative other then full out war since Iran will not just sit and let it's source of national energy and pride just be destroyed because other nations sad it can't have it due to "terrorism" and supposed genocidal ambitions ( Total destruction of Israel, I don't believe in this crap by the way lol).

Based on what I have learned over the 5-6 years on IMF (Iranian military forum) Iran's air defense network is comprised of both western and indigenous systems that work in tandem it seems. There is the HAWK, zu-23-2, S-300, Talash 3, Herz 9, S-200, Sayyad missiles and the newly made Bavar-373 and many other home made defense systems. BUT and this is a vey big but, is it all enough to stop or deter an attack? Given the history of both US and Israel (these two countries are the only two I honestly see ever conducting an attack on Iranian soil for any reason) the attack will most likely be a saturated one that will be composed of air, land and sea multi-pronged strikes that will test many aspects of Iran's defense structure. The long range high altitude defense of the S-300 and Bavar 373 will be imperative in fending off many of the more potent enemy attacks while the medium to lower range defense systems will be used to clean up whatever is left that made it through.

It's just that, as an American ( my parents are Iranian and I was born here in the states, I have a strong connection to Iran, so naturally I get worried for Iran's well-being since many of my family members and in Iran, actually most of my family members are in Iran )

I do think that Iran's current Air defense network is adequate and beyond deadly to any air force but will it be enough to stop the US and Israel in the future ( the US will most likely be more hawkish after Obama leaves ).

As always to everyone here no matter what country or religion you are, stay healthy and safe.

Thank you very much for reading this post,

P.S: If you guys wanna add to this go right ahead and if I made some factual inaccuracies please feel free to correct me.

Thanks for your comment.

Please bear in mind that no Iranian (despite all the rhetoric from Iran military leaders, which is a normal behavior in any country to boost moral an deter the enemies) is under the delusion to think in a case of all out war between Iran and US, Iran will be the winner. Putting aside the technicality and capabilities of each side, it boils down to this: US is a 360 million strong nation (4.5 time more than that of Iran), with a land area 6 times that of Iran and an economy which is 45 times larger. These are the numbers that eventually define who will win in an actual war.

Imperial Japan made that mistake back in WWII. They were order of magnitude stronger in sea and air when compared to US after the Pearl Harbor attack so they thought they are stronger and they can keep it that way but what they didn't realize is that bigger population, economy and resources can easily translate to superior military might and/or number so just after two years, Japan fell behind because it was not able to replenish its lost units as fast as US could.

Back to Iran VS US case, it is the same situation. We may end up in a similar outcome like that of Veitnam war where in a war of attrition, eventually public pressure forces US to withdraw but at the same time we know we will lose all our infrastructure. Iranian are smart enough not to seek such an outcome even if they are announced winner of the war.

So Iran is never looking for an all out war scenario and its strategy is to make its opponents also think twice before they go down such a path. Iran's strategy is to increase the cost of any attack on Iran to the point that any potential enemy like US or Israel, opt for other means like diplomacy or even sanctions.

Going back to your question about Iran's AD system. I can assure you they are as accurate and deadly as you can get. After watching US previous wars eagerly, Iranians know that if they can ground or at least counter US airforce, then they have already raised the cost of any military option for US enough to prevent any attacks to begin with. Thus, AD has been Iran's top priority since almost 15 years ago. Iran established an independent division in its armed forces for AD, started with investing heavily on Radar design and production and at the same time increasing the range and accuracy of its AD missiles. Bavar 373's capacity are yet to be seen but they are already picking the fruit of their investment in Radars and early warning systems.

Here is a sample of how accurate and effective Iran's radars are. A couple of days ago, Iran's head of AD division announced activation of Iran's Nazir radar which is designed to detect drones, stealth and high flying objects. He said from now on, no drone or spy plane can enter Iran's air space without us knowing. Only a few days after that, Iran warned off a US drone, 20 miles off Iran border that was heading towards Iran from Afghanistan:

This is the screen of radar showing the incoming drone. As you can see all parameters of the object is recognized and displayed.

Here is the source that is in Persian:

http://www.mashreghnews.ir/fa/news/624576/شناساسی-و-اخطار-قرارگاه-پدافند-به-پهپاد-رادارگریز-آمریکایی-سند

Iran says it was a stealth drone probably judging by its RCS. Look at the height of the drone: 137, it can be meters or most probably feet. So the radar was able to find an object as small as a drone flying only 41m (height of a ten story building) in a mountainous area like that of Afghanistan.

Everyone knows that detection and guidance is the toughest part of designing an effective AD missiles system. The above news and similar shows Iran already has been successful in designing potent radars. Designing the missile that can carry the warhead to the target, should be peanuts for a nation that can put satellites in the orbit.

 

[BlueInGreen]

Thank you very much for your reply Arminkh, but still... The thought of Iran becoming a Vietnam for the US is just horrible... American troops walking in Tehran rapping the women killing the men and destroying thousands of years of culture and history that will be forever lost not to mention the loss of millions ( possibly tens of millions ) of Iranians who have been wrongly demonized by the West ( Zionist influenced of coursed ).

It truly is horrible to see what the US has become, a monster in sheep's clothing promising one thing but doing the exact opposite, not to mention the... See when your born here and you know of how the US military and US war machine operates, you begin to have feelings of despair because of the seemingly unstoppable nature of the US war machine. Defense contractors pushing for money and continuation of wars in order to sell weapons to who ever wants to spill blood for reasons that can be solved diplomatically.

5-6 years ago I was very pro-American, and I honestly had believed that US could do no wrong but these past years my eyes have opened to a greater world outside and that we here in the US do not have any right to dictate what goes on outside our borders. ( I do still love The US very, very much )

I just... I can't even begin to see Tehran in ruins from American/Israeli airstrikes... I have been there many times and it is one of this worlds hidden beauties, truly it is, the food, the handsome men and beyond gorgeous women ( not to mention the other places in Iran ). The innate Iranian trait for knowledge and scientific advances, the love of family, friends and religion ( for those Iranians who practice it ). All of it is admirable and beautiful and is an example to the rest of the world.

And yet all we hear in the west see is "Iran is bad, Iran is a devil worshipping country, Glass Iran, Kill all Iranians, Protect Israel and kill all Iranians".. This ignorance and disgusting arrogance kills me inside.

Why can't my fellow countrymen just accept other people and cultures and not compare everything to our own damn standards. And I know someone will say something like "Iran doesn't respect Israel's right of existence" but even that argument is dumb since Israel's are notorious for ethnocide and subjugation of Palestinians... Damn it... just damn... I am off topic aren't I...

To get back to what you said. I had honestly believed that Iran could somehow militarily beat the US but if the best case scenario is a war of attrition like Vietnam then... Well I guess we will just have to wait and see how the world events play out.

Sorry I am just ranting at this point lol.

 

[Arminkh]

Thank you very much for your reply Arminkh, but still... The thought of Iran becoming a Vietnam for the US is just horrible... American troops walking in Tehran rapping the women killing the men and destroying thousands of years of culture and history that will be forever lost not to mention the loss of millions ( possibly tens of millions ) of Iranians who have been wrongly demonized by the West ( Zionist influenced of coursed ).

It truly is horrible to see what the US has become, a monster in sheep's clothing promising one thing but doing the exact opposite, not to mention the... See when your born here and you know of how the US military and US war machine operates, you begin to have feelings of despair because of the seemingly unstoppable nature of the US war machine. Defense contractors pushing for money and continuation of wars in order to sell weapons to who ever wants to spill blood for reasons that can be solved diplomatically.

5-6 years ago I was very pro-American, and I honestly had believed that US could do no wrong but these past years my eyes have opened to a greater world outside and that we here in the US do not have any right to dictate what goes on outside our borders. ( I do still love The US very, very much )

I just... I can't even begin to see Tehran in ruins from American/Israeli airstrikes... I have been there many times and it is one of this worlds hidden beauties, truly it is, the food, the handsome men and beyond gorgeous women ( not to mention the other places in Iran ). The innate Iranian trait for knowledge and scientific advances, the love of family, friends and religion ( for those Iranians who practice it ). All of it is admirable and beautiful and is an example to the rest of the world.

And yet all we hear in the west see is "Iran is bad, Iran is a devil worshipping country, Glass Iran, Kill all Iranians, Protect Israel and kill all Iranians".. This ignorance and disgusting arrogance kills me inside.

Why can't my fellow countrymen just accept other people and cultures and not compare everything to our own damn standards. And I know someone will say something like "Iran doesn't respect Israel's right of existence" but even that argument is dumb since Israel's are notorious for ethnocide and subjugation of Palestinians... Damn it... just damn... I am off topic aren't I...

To get back to what you said. I had honestly believed that Iran could somehow militarily beat the US but if the best case scenario is a war of attrition like Vietnam then... Well I guess we will just have to wait and see how the world events play out.

Sorry I am just ranting at this point lol.

I wouldn't worry about that kinds of events anymore, besides Iran's achievements in military industry, Iran's current cooperation with Russia, its potential involvement in Shanghai Cooperation Organization and the fact that it is a threshold nuclear power (it doesn't take much for Iran to build its first nuclear warhead as it does have the knowledge and infrastructure), are all reasons for me to believe an all out war between US and Iran will never happen.

 

[Rukarl]

@mike2000 is back Since you might be interested in Iranian development, what's your thought on this long range air defence developed by Iran? Iran is far more advanced than you think bro.

 

[Rukarl]

Today commander of air defence has confirmed Nazir radar has been activated. From what I keep hearing about this radar, apparently it is a very unique radar. Could it be a HF radar? They once said no other nation has such radar in service. What do you think @Arminkh?

 

[SOHEIL]

They don't even show it's shape !

It's a highly classified system...

State of the art...

 

[Arminkh]

Today commander of air defence has confirmed Nazir radar has been activated. From what I keep hearing about this radar, apparently it is a very unique radar. Could it be a HF radar? They once said no other nation has such radar in service. What do you think @Arminkh?

This is all we know about Nazir radar:

http://www.mashreghnews.ir/fa/news/461427/بهره‌برداری-از-رادارهای-برد-بلند-و-3-بعدی-قرارگاه-پدافند

But as @SOHEIL said, no picture or technical information is revealed yet but the news I mentioned above about discovering a drone 20 miles off border shows it works.