Iranian Air Defense Systems

[DoubleYouSee]

It seems the dish is round, unlike the original Ra’ad! Also, the launcher is Ra’ad, not Sam-6! Maybe a new version

the original Ra'ad serves sam-6 alike missiles as part of system.....as the system is passive the guidance system differ with sam-6 system.....and new Ra'ad uses sayyad missile(or at least new missile are similar to sayyad)........even all operational Ra'ad systems which has been shown in the drills so far have round shape antenna)..........so the system is the Ra'ad-1 which even operate sayyad missiles

 

[skyshadow]

do you guys think Iranian Tor like system will be like this

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

[QUOTE = "skyshadow, post: 11808487, member: 187043"]

pensez-vous que le système iranien Tor sera comme ça

[/CITATION]
The Iranian version will be a mix of Tor and Pantsir so I think it will be a little different

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

 

[Myself]

What is Fath-2 air defense system? I had never heard the name!

 

[skyshadow]

What is Fath-2 air defense system? I had never heard the name!

Fath-14???????

 

[PeeD]

https://www.instagram.com/iranian_defensive_power/

Good observation there on the Oghab system, which seems to be a somewhat miniaturized, truck mounted, TOR-M1.
That would be probably the most cost effective solution: Planar array search radar and low shifter-count PESA tracking radar.
These two radars should still be less expensive than a single radar AESA solution (which also exists, maybe the IRGC SHORAD project or a Navy missile CIWS).

Overall a good decision, Chinese SHORAD of their 2019 parade is also a miniaturized TOR-M1 variant.

Lets see if ready to fire missiles are still 8 or closer to the 16 of the TOR-M2.

Iran got the TOR-M1 in 2006, 13 years ago, good to see a copy of it now.
It's also kinda good news that they went for a PESA solution instead of the disclosed AESA one. A reliable PESA solution probably always beats an AESA in terms of costs and there are few benefits for an AESA in this role.

If the missile count is increased to 16, then I hope the IRGC-ASF to go for it too to allow for a large DM-run serial production like in the case of the joint Sayyad-2.

A next generation single AESA radar Morfey-like solution could be done to increase ready to fire missile count but it seems that the costs are deemed too high --> hence twin radar PESA solution.

This makes the AESA route for the Bavar questionable too and it can only be hoped that the TRM costs for the Bavar engagement radar have somehow been pushed down significantly, maybe by the use of older but very mature GaA technology or even below that.
We know now that the early Bavar concept skipped an AESA engagement radar solution for a more simple monopulse radar. It seems the AESA group then had a breakthrough for affordable/economic X-band TRM.
But that doesn't seems to be affordable enough to be used in the Oghab SHORAD system.
The positive aspect is that they seem to know what they are doing and not fall for a technology hype that would increase critical system cost.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Iran got the TOR-M1 in 2006, 13 years ago, good to see a copy of it now.
It's also kinda good news that they went for a PESA solution instead of the disclosed AESA one. A reliable PESA solution probably always beats an AESA in terms of costs and there are few benefits for an AESA in this role.

well you killed us with that cost effective comments of you.
an AESA is more reliable , if something happen you'll lose a complete array but in AESA you just loose a single module. also when enemy try to jam you, AESA is more resilient . also at the end if Oghab fail you'll lose a storage filled with far more expensive equipment or lose a Bavar System and then that will be really painful as it will crack your armor

The positive aspect is that they seem to know what they are doing and not fall for a technology hype that would increase critical system cost.

there is two pitfall , one is technology hype one , the other is cost effective pitfall that may result in a system that don't deliver the result

 

[PeeD]

Cost effectiveness is basically everything.

1: For what do you need the reliability of an AESA if your system just switches on for a few minutes when getting early warning alert from IADS? This is not a continuously operating system. That's why the Bavar's X-band AESA engagement radar that operates just for minutes is a waste of resources while its S-band acquisition AESA can make good use of the increased reliability.

2: You don't need highest ECCM capabilities for a system that intercepts PGMs, CM's and small UAVs, those won't come with their own jammer. Plus, any stand-off jammer would be far away to avoid being killed by MR and LR systems.

For this case PESA technology is sufficiently reliable and even will two radars almost certainly cheaper than a single AESA solution.
Iran is working on an AESA solution for the SHORAD role but at this point it seems to be a Navy or IRGC system. If the Oghab is the Iranian TOR, then it would work in a safe IADS environment.
But for highly offensive operations where the system would be online for a long period alone, without relying on early warning of upper echelon assets, an AESA solution could become worth the price. A highly off-road IRGC system to defend forward positions, yes then it may make sense.

 

[skyshadow]

@PeeD look at the pic brother and tell me if you know the range on that radar what is it 500 - 600 km? one of them is enough to cover entire Iraq air space




unveiling of Persian Gulf Air Defense Command Operations Center

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1398/07/15/2113413/آغاز-به-کارمرکز-عملیات-فرماندهی-پدافندهوایی-خلیج-فارس








The IRGC air force commander announced that a new air defense system was being built that could be an IRGC prototype similar to the Tour M-2 system.


https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1398/07/15/2110164/گزارش-تسنیم-از-یک-پروژه-جدید-موشکی-آیا-سپاه-تور-ام-2-ایرانی-را-می-سازد

 

[PeeD]

Well Sardar Hajizadeh's statement could be any system with a advanced ESA radar, a Tor-like system, a Pantsir-like system or a Morfey-like system.
If a system is selected, we can only hope for a Ya-Zahra/Herz-9 scenario, not two entirely different systems. The Tor approach looks like the best one, together with a Pantsir-like missile, instead the original Tor missile.
China got the Tor-M1 in the late 90's and just now in their 2019 parade, they paraded it as operational PLA system.
Their missile is about identical to the original Tor missile so if Iran manages to get a more compact higher speed Pantsir layout missile for it's Tor variant, it would be a great achievement.

Those 3 radars of the IRIADF IADS are the original U.S made early warning radars. Their range is very long on the paper or against large targets. But could also be anything else that replaced them or mobile ones at the same location.

 

[skyshadow]

Kihan radar has a range of well more then 3000 km that is it operational range not its ultimate range





is that the Kihan radar with 3000 km range? its has been deployed near Persian Gulf.

برد 3000 کیلومتر که برای این رادار اعلام شده تنها برای میزان مداومت کاری رادار کیهانی است درحالیکه برد این رادار بیش از 3 هزار کیلومتر است.


https://www.tabnak.ir/fa/news/192656/برد-رادار-کیهان-ایرانی-اعلام-شد

Well Sardar Hajizadeh's statement could be any system with a advanced ESA radar, a Tor-like system, a Pantsir-like system or a Morfey-like system.
If a system is selected, we can only hope for a Ya-Zahra/Herz-9 scenario, not two entirely different systems. The Tor approach looks like the best one, together with a Pantsir-like missile, instead the original Tor missile.
China got the Tor-M1 in the late 90's and just now in their 2019 parade, they paraded it as operational PLA system.
Their missile is about identical to the original Tor missile so if Iran manages to get a more compact higher speed Pantsir layout missile for it's Tor variant, it would be a great achievement.

Those 3 radars of the IRIADF IADS are the original U.S made early warning radars. Their range is very long on the paper or against large targets. But could also be anything else that replaced them or mobile ones at the same location.

well 9th of Day missile could be a nice missile for Iranian Pantsir like system add a small booster and it will get you 40-50 km

 

[PeeD]

Keyhan radar yes, while it operates in HF band like OTH radars its seems to be a unique Struna-1-like system.

9th Day would be a good add-on for the 3rd Khordad and Tabas to double the missile load to 6 for targets in the 30-40km max. range.

Back to the Oghab: 0.3m satelite imagery allows to identify specific details.
It is visible that the miniaturization of the system is like the HQ-17/FM-2000 --> narrow: overall as wide as the PESA aperture and light and small as it fits an ordinary, low footprint 6x6 truck.
This is good news, Iran already did such miniaturization with the Herz-9.

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

 

[DoubleYouSee]

https://www.instagram.com/iranian_defensive_power/

Good observation there on the Oghab system, which seems to be a somewhat miniaturized, truck mounted, TOR-M1.
That would be probably the most cost effective solution: Planar array search radar and low shifter-count PESA tracking radar.
These two radars should still be less expensive than a single radar AESA solution (which also exists, maybe the IRGC SHORAD project or a Navy missile CIWS).

Overall a good decision, Chinese SHORAD of their 2019 parade is also a miniaturized TOR-M1 variant.

Lets see if ready to fire missiles are still 8 or closer to the 16 of the TOR-M2.

Iran got the TOR-M1 in 2006, 13 years ago, good to see a copy of it now.
It's also kinda good news that they went for a PESA solution instead of the disclosed AESA one. A reliable PESA solution probably always beats an AESA in terms of costs and there are few benefits for an AESA in this role.

If the missile count is increased to 16, then I hope the IRGC-ASF to go for it too to allow for a large DM-run serial production like in the case of the joint Sayyad-2.

A next generation single AESA radar Morfey-like solution could be done to increase ready to fire missile count but it seems that the costs are deemed too high --> hence twin radar PESA solution.

This makes the AESA route for the Bavar questionable too and it can only be hoped that the TRM costs for the Bavar engagement radar have somehow been pushed down significantly, maybe by the use of older but very mature GaA technology or even below that.
We know now that the early Bavar concept skipped an AESA engagement radar solution for a more simple monopulse radar. It seems the AESA group then had a breakthrough for affordable/economic X-band TRM.
But that doesn't seems to be affordable enough to be used in the Oghab SHORAD system.
The positive aspect is that they seem to know what they are doing and not fall for a technology hype that would increase critical system cost.

In an interview with one of IRGC comanders it was said that upgrading Iranian tor m1 to tor m2 took them about 10 years.....hands to GOD that i have heard oghab missile name before and i knew(came to conclusion)that oghab is Iranian version of tor missiles.......so my idea is that in the procedure of copying missile and upgradig the system and observing its good work in syria convinced IRGC to make this system......and with adding hayel cannon(orlikon mounted on chassie)they came wigh new system