Iranian Air Defense Systems
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Hack-Hook
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Now they are going to say the operator was sleep deprived last night and fall sleep as the result the drone went into iran territory .
skyshadow
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پس ار اعلام خبر انهدام پهپاد گلوبال هاوک آمریکا، ابتدا ارتش آمریکا این خبر را تکذیب کرد ولی پس از مدتی این خبر را تایید و نوع پهپاد منهدم شده را MQ-4C Triton یعنی گونه توسعه داده شده از پهپاد گلوبال هاوک برای عملیات شناسایی دریایی اعلام کرد. همچنین ادعا شده است که پهپاد وارد مرز ایران نشده بود.
در این گونه از پهپاد گلوبال هاوک دو تفاوت ایجاد شده است. یکی افزودن سایت الکترواپتیک به زیر دماغه و رادار سار متفاوت در زیر بدنه هست.
IRAN has shot down a US ‘spy’ drone today over "international airspace" as tensions continue to rise in the Persian Gulf, American military officials said.
The US military has challenged these claims saying the drone was gunned down in international airspace over the Strait of Hormuz by an Iranian surface-to-air missile
Earlier, Navy Captain Bill Urban, of America's Central Command said: "No US aircraft were operating in Iranian airspace today."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9334596/iran-shoots-down-us-spy-drone-tensions-gulf/
Hack-Hook
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There isn't that much IRGC airforce ,I doubt their airforce is suitable for engaging RQ-4
sanel1412
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Well,they can use SU-22 ,it is high altitude tactical bomber but can be used for interception when you have drone...but maybe article was wrong or not precise translation,it has more sense to use air defense but I saw 2 articles clearly said IRGC air force ,not aerospace force,we all know IRGC has aviation branch under aerospace force together with air defense but many media outlets tag always IRGC AF as air force instead aeroapace
Aramagedon
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PeeD
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It must be noted that the MQ-4C has very high ESM/ELINT capabilities: It normally knows the SAM threat situation very well.
When it is close to the borders on "spy missions", it will analyse the situation and if it is deemed possible it will fly into enemy airspace.
Hence to kill a MQ-4C on your own territory, it has to be tricked: It must have a wrong picture of situation.
In this case the MQ-4C was either somehow manipulated on its navigation or its analysis via ELINT wrongly allowed it to intrude into Irans airspace.
The Jask region is a small border region that can be surveilled quite well. The system responsible for the kill must have done it fast and without enough warning for it to return into international airspace (if it has been shot down over land).
During the later cold war the SR-71 was famous for always trying to violate Soviet airspace by returning back into international airspace once a interception was attempted.
So if photos of wreckage on Iranian soil are released, it must have been a low footprint, short-notice, high altitude system, high missile-speed system.
When it is close to the borders on "spy missions", it will analyse the situation and if it is deemed possible it will fly into enemy airspace.
Hence to kill a MQ-4C on your own territory, it has to be tricked: It must have a wrong picture of situation.
In this case the MQ-4C was either somehow manipulated on its navigation or its analysis via ELINT wrongly allowed it to intrude into Irans airspace.
The Jask region is a small border region that can be surveilled quite well. The system responsible for the kill must have done it fast and without enough warning for it to return into international airspace (if it has been shot down over land).
During the later cold war the SR-71 was famous for always trying to violate Soviet airspace by returning back into international airspace once a interception was attempted.
So if photos of wreckage on Iranian soil are released, it must have been a low footprint, short-notice, high altitude system, high missile-speed system.
PeeD
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Ok after the release of the video several things are clear:
Missile used was newer Taer-2C of the 3rd Khordad
Engagement was long range, ~90km according to US version, ~85km in the Iranian version (reminder: newest BUK-M3 and HQ-16 reaches officially just 75km)
Shot down was unfortunately over water
No clear evidence of the wreck hence possible that it flew within Irans airspace.
That's not good because the "plausible deniability" concept of RoE is a problem here: Soviet Mig-31 didn't kill U.S SR-71 because by the time it would be hit by the missile, it would be already outside Russian airspace and crash on NATO soil.
The RQ-4 did its routine hence, no added provocation from its side. It may have violated Iranian airspace but Iran can't easily prove it because such violations are always very minimal for such slow assets.
So it certainly looks like it's a offensive act yet again by Iran.
Justification is surely there but this time the operations looks less subtile and elegant...
With Trump coping Reagans mad-man doctrine, he has already done his first action according to this concept: Offer a soft response by Iran in asking whether this was just a mistake by some general.
Iran will stay cold on this and then Trump has to act in some way, otherwise the house of cards of his mad-man doctrine will collapse in front of the whole world...
I'm somewhat critical on this move.
Missile used was newer Taer-2C of the 3rd Khordad
Engagement was long range, ~90km according to US version, ~85km in the Iranian version (reminder: newest BUK-M3 and HQ-16 reaches officially just 75km)
Shot down was unfortunately over water
No clear evidence of the wreck hence possible that it flew within Irans airspace.
That's not good because the "plausible deniability" concept of RoE is a problem here: Soviet Mig-31 didn't kill U.S SR-71 because by the time it would be hit by the missile, it would be already outside Russian airspace and crash on NATO soil.
The RQ-4 did its routine hence, no added provocation from its side. It may have violated Iranian airspace but Iran can't easily prove it because such violations are always very minimal for such slow assets.
So it certainly looks like it's a offensive act yet again by Iran.
Justification is surely there but this time the operations looks less subtile and elegant...
With Trump coping Reagans mad-man doctrine, he has already done his first action according to this concept: Offer a soft response by Iran in asking whether this was just a mistake by some general.
Iran will stay cold on this and then Trump has to act in some way, otherwise the house of cards of his mad-man doctrine will collapse in front of the whole world...
I'm somewhat critical on this move.
zectech
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Iran could handle, if prepared enough, to knock out a swarm of 100-500 missiles at their ADS. That is what they have to prepare for, and for jamming and ECMs.
There aren't enough B1B bombers to do this with refueling, if Iran is prepared.
You would need a combined 2 carrier fleets with what you said to overwhelm a well prepared ADS using cruise missiles. 5 for only using JASSM.
ADS is most important because if the best, can prevent wars by there mere existence.
You have to make it super expensive and quite hard to knock out a battalion of ADS.
Radar guided ammunition will fill in the gaps when SAMs run out of missiles. The nuclear sites should have well over 100 SAMs (500 may not be enough) with additional radar guided bullets to protect the nuclear power plants. Some SAM systems have only 3-4, others have 12 SAMs.
A small operation of attacking Syria involved about 100 missiles fired at Assad's Syria. Imagine what is in store in an attack against Iran.
Iran had better prepared for more than 100, up to 500 or more to knock out the SAMs and nuclear power stations. And only do so under the cover of the best SAMs that can protect against ECMs.
Managing targets may be difficult in a 500 missile swarm attack.
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Could the drone have been tricked into going into the Hormuz Straits and got shot down?
Arminkh
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If it was shot down anywhere in the area below then it WAS in Iran's airspace unless it was on the Oman's side of the waters:
12 nautical miles translates into 22Km, US itself consider 24 nautical miles as territorial water.
Aramagedon
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PeeD
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Yes according to Zarif, it crashed within the 12NM of Iranian airspace.
He also said that they have recovered wreckage parts.
Lets see if Iran can credibly prove that it was a legitimate shot down.
@Oldman1
That's what it looks like: Relaxed RoE approach for some period to make drone pilots lax in this regard: Then a day before Irans Shamkhani threatens a change in RoE and hours later the unexpected shot down. If it was at Zarifs claimed coordinates the U.S pilots probably justified to their generals that "Iran never cared for 5km more or less violation in the past".
He also said that they have recovered wreckage parts.
Lets see if Iran can credibly prove that it was a legitimate shot down.
@Oldman1
That's what it looks like: Relaxed RoE approach for some period to make drone pilots lax in this regard: Then a day before Irans Shamkhani threatens a change in RoE and hours later the unexpected shot down. If it was at Zarifs claimed coordinates the U.S pilots probably justified to their generals that "Iran never cared for 5km more or less violation in the past".
Why didn't they force the drone deep into Iranian airspace and land it?
JohnWick
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I think the US will crash it instead of force landing in Iran....
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