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Iranian Air Defense Systems

@eagle2007 @PeeD any thoughts on the statement by the US' DIA Director that Iran received the "SA-20c"? The S-300PMU2 is the SA-20B. Maybe a PMU2 system with more S-400 components?
 
AmirPatriot,

Maybe PeeD knows something more official but most American military wonks who read this news were just as surprised/perplexed by this "SA-20c" business. Good guess it's an internal designation by the DoD but what it means exactly, no clue.
 
SA-20c could just stand for "custom"

It is no secret that the S-300 that Iran ordered was custom built per Iran's specifications. Hence why Iran ignored requests for more generic export versions when Russia ordered them.
 
AmirPatriot,

Maybe PeeD knows something more official but most American military wonks who read this news were just as surprised/perplexed by this "SA-20c" business. Good guess it's an internal designation by the DoD but what it means exactly, no clue.

I did a little bit of digging just recently and it is just hopeless, S-300 radars and missiles look almost exactly the same.
 
"this system is superior to S-300."

Yeah....but superior to which version?
PMU-2? I doubt....otherwise Iranians wouldnt beg russia to fulfill the S-300 contract...
 
"this system is superior to S-300."

Yeah....but superior to which version?
PMU-2? I doubt....otherwise Iranians wouldnt beg russia to fulfill the S-300 contract...
A contract is something to be honored and we did not beg for it we went to court over it and Russia only honored that contract when it became clear that court is ruling in favor of us and we showed component of this system.
 
A contract is something to be honored and we did not beg for it we went to court over it and Russia only honored that contract when it became clear that court is ruling in favor of us and we showed component of this system.

A contract should be honored, yes, but that was not my point.

Iran could just request the money rerurned (over 1bln $) and put them into its own domestic AD development.

I remember yavar once mentioned Iran needs the technology of the computer inside the S-300 missile (Anti Ballistis capabilities)
 
A contract should be honored, yes, but that was not my point.

Iran could just request the money rerurned (over 1bln $) and put them into its own domestic AD development.

I remember yavar once mentioned Iran needs the technology of the computer inside the S-300 missile (Anti Ballistis capabilities)
Iran requested the money and the damage for breaching the contract Russia didn't want to pay for damage .
I don't knew about the damage but I knew that Iran refused the offer for antay 2500 and asks specially for s300 . maybe there was something inside s300 pmu series. that was not included in Antay 2500 or S300vm series that Iran was interested so much in it .
 
Any thoughts on the statement by the US' DIA Director that Iran received the "SA-20c"? The S-300PMU2 is the SA-20B. Maybe a PMU2 system with more S-400 components?


Iran has recived Customized PMU2 order and Iran side has requested some modification on S-300PMU2 .
When it comes to S-400 ,it is marketing term original designation was PMU3 and after PMU3/S400 was introduced, original pmu2 from 2007 was re-developed from PMU3/S-400 and now these two version are almost the same and can complement each other.
PMU 2 version is only version that can be upgraded to S-400 without changing even one component, now S-400 can be considered as improved PMU2 since as I said original PMU 2 from 2007 is re-developed with S-400 technology .If PMU2 is upgraded to S400 without any upgrades on engagement radar than it would have less range up to 300km because radar max detection range but since tumbstone lunching range is 1000km if you integrate PMU2 in S-400 you are literary converting whole network to S-400 performanse... You can see this in Syria ..instead deploying all S-400, Russians have deployed S-400 and integrate it with S-300.
So S-400 components and PMU2 components are the same in 95%...also you can see most of these components it in S-500...at least in air defense part of s-500 (s-500 is developed from V family not P, and it will be integrated in Russian cosmic defense).
So PMU2 and PMU3/S-400 are almost same in every aspect except in few components like grave stone instead tumbstone..etc, you can see command posts,terminals, administration posts,lunchers on Iran PMU 2 are same as in S-400 ..S-400 has improved missiles but PMU2 can fire it also but as I said with lower range(except if there is S-400 in network )...Now there are lot of optional components you can add. ..radars Gama D,Protivnik ,short range lunchers...basicly everything you see on S-400.
Iran has requested that all components of PMU 2 are most recent and like I said original PMU2 from 2007 is not same as most recent PMU2 , and Iran had some custom requests so I suppose that is reason why SA-20c tag. If you read Almaz-atney chief designers and consultant article about PMU 2 you will find out how PMU2 and S400 are similar, they said that PMU2 started as deep upgrade of PMU1 but latter it end up as technology migration from S400, they completly rebuilt original PMU2 (which was at first PMU1 upgrade )once S-400 was in production ...so we have PMU2 original version and this PMU2 that is latter redesigned to be similar to S-400 as much at it can.
Here is quote about their thechnical discussion ;
"The best technical discussion of design of the S-300PMU2 to date is a recent article by Alexander Ryazanov, Chief Designer, Vitaliy Semenov, Chief Designer, Almaz-Antey, and Dr Anatoliy Sumin, consultant to Almaz-Antey, published in the Russian language Vozdushno-Kosmicheskaya Oborona journal, No 2 . Follow on articles by other authors expand on this analysis Ryazanov state that the S-300PMU2 began as a “deep modernisation” or technology insertion upgrade to the existing S-300PM/PMU1 / SA-20A design, and state trials (Russian OpEval) were completed in 2007. The protracted development of the S-300PMU2 resulted in technology migration from the concurrent but more advanced S-400 Triumf / SA-21. The intent was to maximise commonality in as many components as possible, between the S-300PMU2 Favorit and S-400 Triumf."
So you can see that original version from 2007 that was designated as sa-20b was latter upgraded with technology that became available after S-400 was introduced. And this is most likely reason for SA-20C tag.In short you have as they say protracted developement of PMU2 version with goal to be as much as it can complement with s-400.
 
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"this system is superior to S-300."

Yeah....but superior to which version?
PMU-2? I doubt....otherwise Iranians wouldnt beg russia to fulfill the S-300 contract...
Well it didn't say what version..yes..also we don't know in which way he ment"superior",as I could find about Bavar 373 they said it can identify targets at 300KM and engage at 200Km ...this is PMU2 level perfomanse,but there are other factors..how many targets it can engage in same time... how many targets it can track at same time...also individual components prefomanse...like radars range, resolution...now since we know some components of the B-373 we can use this general information about b-373 we find in different statements coming from Iranian officials and in combination with perfomanse of individual components we know about... get some insight about this comparation.
Again "superior" can mean lot of things....but from information about b-373 I could find around and information about some components we know will be part of system,we can see that this range is level of PMU2 version..at least on paper....again we know very little about b-373,note that in practice in real war when it comes to fighter aircraft no one will even try to shoot on it from this distance but it is important because when it comes to low rcs objects detection range ...
When it comes to radar technology Iran is in this field i would say strong and they had insight in Russians and Chinese most modern tchnology for years,missile technology is probably not problem...but still developement of such complex system was not easy...till now all Iranian air defense systems were based on some already available AD systems and technologies to Iran...RAAD family is based on BUK-M2 tech ,Mersad is Hawk evolution..we have also evolution of almost every other AD system Iran had in it's inventory BUT this is really first time they started to build AD system without having anything such complex in it's inventory...I will repeat once again developement of such complex system require whole new level of technology,it require developement of highly complex components and then integration in one system with many limits in mind...like mobility ...that is why this is very important step for Iran and while this "superior" can mean it is superior than earlier versions of s-300 or it could mean that some perfomanse of individual components are better...we don't know but we can see that everyone is surprised with this system and when Iran announced that it will develop long range system most reactions were jokes about it or at best very pesimist expectations....I said back than that many will be surprised with results simple because after fillowing Iran military for almost 20 years I was very aware of Iranian capatibilities and now we can see that reactions are very different than few years ago.
 
Sanel made some good points.

Iranian S-300PMU2 has for example the lastest Russian directional communication-link system for battery/IADS communication.

Russian standard S-300PM2 is more potent than the export S-300PMU2 while the S-400 has double the numbers of engagement channels and somewhat improved missiles (+50km) and a new long range missile.
It is possible that Russia agreed to sell Iran some components which are up to the S-300PM2 standard, like a secure directional com-link. That in turn could have caused the added NATO designation of C.
 
Russia to Open Air Defense Services Center in Iran: Official
TEHRAN (Tasnim) – Russia will open a special service center in Iran offering after-sale assistance for air defense systems, Russia’s Presidential Aide for Military Cooperation Vladimir Kozhin said.

We are creating a special service center in Iran, where we supplied our air defense equipment," Kozhin said, Vestnik Kavkaza website reported on Monday.

He further said that the military-technical cooperation to create Russian service centers "will be definitely developed."

Iran took delivery of the S-300 defense missile system in July 2016.

The Iranian military successfully tested the Russian-made surface-to-air defense system in March 2017.

Source;Tasnim (can't add link yet )
 

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