Iranian Air Defense Systems

[Fafnir]

Fafnir@
what is the missile on the far right hand side of the image?
Rapier missile perhaps?
One on the bottom is a cruise type missile like tomahawk?

Its hard to say just with a guess,but the missile on the right looks like it could either be a 2 stage sam as it does appear to taper very slightly in the middle,another possibility might be an air to air missile as these are usually quite long and thin.One of the problems is that there is nothing to scale the models with so getting a sense of how big the actual systems are meant to be in real life is virtually impossible and without that it makes guesstimating all the more difficult,for instance the model of the bavar 373 is smaller than the taer 2 model but in reality the b373 is a hell of a lot bigger than the taer 2.
The bottom missile does indeed look a lot like the older tomahawk even down to having what appears to be a cruciform tail and an external air intake.

That part of the video is about wind tunnels and those are models Iran used for wind tunnel testing....

Yes,I did rather gather that.

They are models used in wind tunnel testing..... Nothing more! These were there too

Doesn't necessarily mean Iran is planning on building them...

True,but its just as possible that these were models for actual projects that ended up being cancelled,after all we have no way of knowing the age of many of the models on display.I think its extremely likely that all the models we saw were based on actual designs for past or current military projects.

 

[PeeD]

Some of the models are for benchmarking/testing the windtunnel.

Others are real. For the Pantsir/Rapier hybrid we see one thing: It is presented with Sayyad-4, Taer-2A and a unknown CM with Tomahawk layout.

The probability is thus high that these are a group of real projects and a Iranised Pantsir makes best sense. More likely than a (bulky/expensive) TOR-M1 missile copy and the pattern is again similar to what was done with the Taer-2A: It has the basic layout of the Buk-M1 missile but the engineering is Iranian and more similar to Sayyad-2/Standard.

I'm 80% sure that this is the next generation Iranian short range, anti-PGM/-CM system after the Ya-Zahra-2/9.Herz.
Great decision if true.

PS: That missile would not be a copy of the Pantsir's. The Iranian variant seems to have a powered second stage --> a significant difference in basic layout, plus likely a boxed launcher.

 

[AmirPatriot]

@PeeD is this the model you were talking about?

Pantsir

 

[PeeD]

@PeeD is this the model you were talking about?

Pantsir

Yes.
Remains to be seen whether the additional sustainer motor of the second stage is worth the extra cost in terms of range and speed performance.
If range is higher than the Pantsir missile and warhead of similar power, then maybe. But if not, the Pantsir would be the more cost efficient design.

 

[skyshadow]

 

[Muhammed45]

@PeeD

What is the considerable difference b/n these two radars :

Fath-14 :

Matla'ul fajr-3 :

 

[PeeD]

M

@PeeD

What is the considerable difference b/n these two radars :

Fath-14 :

Matla'ul fajr-3 :

Well MuF-3 is a more cost efficient PESA with somewhat longer wavelength.

Fath-14 is a more compact design with potential for shoot and scoot in a mobile variant. It's more sophisticated by being an AESA with more advanced waveform. It can potentially also be used for electronic starring sector scan, while the MuF-3 is a traditional volume search radar.

I'm a like the MuF-2/3 as its close to maximum cost effectiveness.

 

[sanel1412]

M


Well MuF-3 is a more cost efficient PESA with somewhat longer wavelength.

Fath-14 is a more compact design with potential for shoot and scoot in a mobile variant. It's more sophisticated by being an AESA with more advanced waveform. It can potentially also be used for electronic starring sector scan, while the MuF-3 is a traditional volume search radar.

I'm a like the MuF-2/3 as its close to maximum cost effectiveness.

For god sake Muf 2/3 are not pesa or any electronicaly scanned radars...those are Vhf radars based on P12/P18 design...P12/18 is particulary used with Yugoslavian S-125 1999 as search radar and it was radar that first detect f-117 and Alert fire crew.Matla ul fajr is highly upgraded and modified P-12/18 design,it is highly mobile and it has integrated ECCM thus since it is digitalized it is highly resistant to jamming..if I remember corectly it has around 100 channels.PESA radars and passive radars like kolchuga(even those are not radars at all...since it only recive signals already transmitedby object) are completly different things..because PESA and all radars transmit signal and than recive it once it bounce from target while passive scaners called passive radars only scan and process signals reflected or transmited by target without transmiting anything itself...for those systems anti radiation missiles don't work, ofcourse MUF is VHF radar with wavelengths of the order of a metre.In metre or more spectrum VHF and UHF STEALTH design doesn't have effect at all.These radars can't be used to guide missiles since accuracy and resolution(resolution is vey important since you have to be able to see targets that fly close to each other as mltipletargets instead one)) is not precise but once it detect object and average positions is known than any radar can detect and aim target, Stealth or not stealth,these VHF radars in metre wavelenghts are used as search radars and when target is detected than acquision and fire control radars are alerted.Also decimetric radars like Kasta are also good for LOW rcs targets and Kasta radar is mostly used as search/acquision radar for AD systems like TOR,BUK because it has good range and also it is accurate so it can track targets and provide data.

 

[N_Al40]

Iranian Pantisir-S1 Analogue?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....est-fire-low-altitude-weapons-in-war-game/amp

 

[PeeD]

For god sake Muf 2/3 are not pesa or any electronicaly scanned radars...those are Vhf radars based on P12/P18 design...P12/18 is particulary used with Yugoslavian S-125 1999 as search radar and it was radar that first detect f-117 and Alert fire crew.Matla ul fajr is highly upgraded and modified P-12/18 design,it is highly mobile and it has integrated ECCM thus since it is digitalized it is highly resistant to jamming..if I remember corectly it has around 100 channels.PESA radars and passive radars like kolchuga(even those are not radars at all...since it only recive signals already transmitedby object) are completly different things..because PESA and all radars transmit signal and than recive it once it bounce from target while passive scaners called passive radars only scan and process signals reflected or transmited by target without transmiting anything itself...for those systems anti radiation missiles don't work, ofcourse MUF is VHF radar with wavelengths of the order of a metre.In metre or more spectrum VHF and UHF STEALTH design doesn't have effect at all.These radars can't be used to guide missiles since accuracy and resolution(resolution is vey important since you have to be able to see targets that fly close to each other as mltipletargets instead one)) is not precise but once it detect object and average positions is known than any radar can detect and aim target, Stealth or not stealth,these VHF radars in metre wavelenghts are used as search radars and when target is detected than acquision and fire control radars are alerted.Also decimetric radars like Kasta are also good for LOW rcs targets and Kasta radar is mostly used as search/acquision radar for AD systems like TOR,BUK because it has good range and also it is accurate so it can track targets and provide data.

I even agree that the MuF-3 does not work as a PESA in normal volume seach. But it almost certainly has electronic scanning capability for hightfinding. This is also a main difference to the Fath-14 I didn't mention, the MuF-3 does normally only do 2D scans.
If it is used for 3D scan you get reduced range but the radar would be called a PESA in that mode as hight scanning is done electronically.
The Fath-14 AESA works normally as 3D only radar and not just electronically scanned in elevation but also in azimuth. Hence it has more advanced waveform and almost certainly digital beamforming capability (likely the reason for the long development phase).

With the rest about PESA having something to do with passive radars you are way off. Furthermore P-18 is ancient compared to MuF-3, which is fully solid state.

 

[sanel1412]

I even agree that the MuF-3 does not work as a PESA in normal volume seach. But it almost certainly has electronic scanning capability for hightfinding. This is also a main difference to the Fath-14 I didn't mention, the MuF-3 does normally only do 2D scans.
If it is used for 3D scan you get reduced range but the radar would be called a PESA in that mode as hight scanning is done electronically.
The Fath-14 AESA works normally as 3D only radar and not just electronically scanned in elevation but also in azimuth. Hence it has more advanced waveform and almost certainly digital beamforming capability (likely the reason for the long development phase).

With the rest about PESA having something to do with passive radars you are way off. Furthermore P-18 is ancient compared to MuF-3, which is fully solid state.

You don't know what You talk about ...MUF is not phased array radar at ali and is not passive electronically scanned array radar......every old radars can be digitalized(solid components replace analog)but that doesn'T CHANGE antena design..AESA/PESA radars have phased shifters in antena placed in array...to convert something in to phased array radar whole design have to CHANGE,digitalization has not anything with it..whole S-125 is digitalized and provided under mame Pechora but it stil. use same components only digitalized which provide provide S-125 up to date capatibility,better jamming resistance and some other benefits.MUF 2 and Muf 3 are same design as P12 and P18 and antena is exactly the same.. It doesn't metter it is digitalized..that has nothing to do with antena design,digitalization and solid state components can't change antena design...There is no normal Pesa or half Pesa...it is passive electronically scanned array or not...and it is not working mode...for god sake...radars deasn't works in AESA or PESA mode..radars are designed and built as AESA, PESA..or something third..again Muf use same design as p12/18 which can be modernizma,digitalized...added ECCM but you can't turn non phased array radars in to phased array without redesign antena...Again Muf use same design as P12/18 consisted of set of yagi antena.....fact that Muf is digitalized and use solid state components doesn't change this fact.

 

[Fafnir]

I found a couple of pics of iranian shilkas

 

[Stryker1982]

I found a couple of pics of iranian shilkas

Did i go back in time 30 years?

 

[PeeD]

You don't know what You talk about ...MUF is not phased array radar at ali and is not passive electronically scanned array radar......every old radars can be digitalized(solid components replace analog)but that doesn'T CHANGE antena design..AESA/PESA radars have phased shifters in antena placed in array...to convert something in to phased array radar whole design have to CHANGE,digitalization has not anything with it..whole S-125 is digitalized and provided under mame Pechora but it stil. use same components only digitalized which provide provide S-125 up to date capatibility,better jamming resistance and some other benefits.MUF 2 and Muf 3 are same design as P12 and P18 and antena is exactly the same.. It doesn't metter it is digitalized..that has nothing to do with antena design,digitalization and solid state components can't change antena design...There is no normal Pesa or half Pesa...it is passive electronically scanned array or not...and it is not working mode...for god sake...radars deasn't works in AESA or PESA mode..radars are designed and built as AESA, PESA..or something third..again Muf use same design as p12/18 which can be modernizma,digitalized...added ECCM but you can't turn non phased array radars in to phased array without redesign antena...Again Muf use same design as P12/18 consisted of set of yagi antena.....fact that Muf is digitalized and use solid state components doesn't change this fact.

Basic fact: A phased array PESA can skip doing phased electronic steering and would still be a normal volume search radar, just that it would be limited to 2D.

Another fact: You cant tell from the MuF-3 array design that no phase shifters are present. But you can speculate them to be not present because it was called a 2D radar, there I would agree with you.

We don't know certainly but the jump from MuF-2 to -3 could for example be due to a added phase shifting capability that would enable 3D scan if required, this change would make it a PESA without any clear visible external change.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Did i go back in time 30 years?

They aren't bad, to be honest. One of the few purpose built SPAA in Iran's military. I hardly think anything is going got be jamming them at this low of an altitude. Modernisation and reverse engineering shouldn't be difficult at all.