Iran nuclear deal, 2018.

[PeaceGen]

WHY AM I FOR A RUSSIAN AND IRANIAN PRESENCE IN SYRIA?

- it'll prevent the return of ISIS to Syria
- it'll allow such a clear victory for Assad that the moderate protesters are going to have to get relocated, quite possibly outside Syria. that's entirely do-able, the EU alone has plenty of combined space. and we owe them. and the Syrian refugees are unlikely to want to live in Russia. and the rest of the Middle Eastern states do not have a refugee-absorption program (yet).

- Russia can with an naval and airbase in Syria prevent a sneak sea/sub-attack on their hard-won naval base in the Crimea (north-end of the Black Sea), something i find a very reasonable. And the chances of the Russians invading and trying to hold on the Aegean Sea (between Greece and Turkey) are non-existant. it's too easy to counter from air, land, and the seas west of Greece.

- Iran can with an naval and airbase only establish trade routes (Syria -> Iran by freight train) into the Mediterranean Sea, something that would boost their civilian economy.
and they pose zero threat to anything in the Mediterranean Sea or the Aegean Sea. and we in NATO and Israel can keep it that way by insisting the Meditterranean Sea remain a domain ruled by NATO, which means Russia and Iran can place only strategically valuable military assets on any base in Syria, not entire (powerful) fleets brought in by a regional arms-race, and definitely not any nuclear, chemical or biological weaponry.

- Iran can not think to use their bases in Syria (*if* i can manage to convince the West to let you keep those bases and possibly upgrade them according to some guidelines, the first of which i've posted in this message) to attack Israel in open or veiled/hidden/sneaky ways. Bad-mouthing Israel is one thing, seriously bad-mouthing Israel ('eventually we will remove Israel from the map' statements by anyone) is crossing the line into warmongering territory, but our real red line is that Israel should never ever actually be attacked (let alone with something big like a dirty of nuclear bomb, as i hear too many Iranians on this forum pray for publicly in English), or end up with (remote) neighbors that can destroy it within 10 minutes (Iranian nuke ICBMs {adapted from Iran's space program}) to 10 days (through the creation of a vibrant fundamentalist-muslim military industrial complex).
Before you claim i'm the hypocrite bully again, think about it carefully:
2 sides that hate eachother to the core, and who are equally armed, WILL go to war with eachother.
The more reasonable side should have very decisive military overweight, if you want confrontation incidents to not flare up into all-out war.
That is why the Palestinians are kept so poorly armed by the Israelis... Either you have to kill just a few dozen Palestinians when they walk up to the border in thousands (intent on starting mayhem among Israeli civilians if they'd have powerful enough weapons with them),
or you have to kill a whole bunch of Palestinians who think they can storm the border fence because they're well-armed.

So, IRAN..... : your objectives should be to start a commercial harbor in Syria and connect that by means of canals or railroads (far) inland to where the customers and producers of civilian goods are. and show that you're reasonable by not placing too many military boats or subs or planes on your bases in Syria.
After the WW2 was fully over, the American bases in Germany because quiet backwater assignments.
That's exactly how i want Iranian military bases in Syria to be instructed to behave.

For Russia in Syria it's slightly different, they get the prestige of putting some decent submarines on patrol from the entire Black Sea, the bosporus, the Aegean Sea, and the route to their naval base in Syria.
I'm also keeping an eye on the new nuclear weapons arms race between Russia and the USA.

with that, the US loses access to the Black Sea (for listening purposes) but we can offset that with more accurate satellite power. boats dont travel that fast.

what is the real purpose of this naval base for Russia in Syria? to make the Aegean Sea a place of stand-off for a naval invasion by NATO into the Black Sea.
And that's as sane as it was sane not to allow nukes and their launchers to be installed on Cuba.

Iran, your commercial role in this, also paves the way for https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/wate...ns-and-their-neighbours.547222/#post-10301457

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

but we do learn from our mistakes here in the West.
you'll find both sanctions and military action will be smarter and more effective in the future, while avoiding loss of innocent lives much more than before.

If they are launching cruise missiles, dropping bombs, using artillery, or drone strikes, they are going to be killing innocent people regardless.

Maybe just avoid war instead?

Modern world leaders seem to like launching military strikes even faster than video game players pressing buttons.

 

[PeaceGen]

you're right, military action should not be used easily.
it should be the last option to use,
and any military action needs a rock-solid post-action plan.

 

[timmy_area51]

i'm not out to rule the world.
i do wish the world to be ruled better, with less wars for starters.

all i do on this forum is explain the Western viewpoints as they are revealed in international mass media, as they can be detected by common sense, and as it is revealed at that border-area that is common-sense plus the start of conspiracy-theory territory. the world is ruled by the small elite social circles some of which over here in the West, can be called part of the illuminati / masons.
but Assad and his cronies form another small elite circle, and the Royals of Saudi Arabia do too.
even in Iraq and Afghanistan, the well known politicians' names form the political elite in those countries.
in Iran, the elite is the religious and highest ranks of government.

i am not a part of such a political / military / religious / whatever elite social circle.
i'm a working-class hobbyist-analyst who desires less suffering caused by (unnecessary) wars, of which there are far too many in progress today and for the past 2 decades or so.

so i just read the news, try to figure out how peace processes get stalled and how wars get started and stopped.
and then i come here on this forum and find frequent serious misunderstandings about what the West does in the Middle East,
misunderstandings that are direct recruitment tools for terror groups,
and i feel it's useful to counter that as much as possible.

that is not always easy in the face of lies and personal attacks against my viewpoints and person,
but i've got a thick skin and i don't like to rub things in; i don't like to repeat myself.

Are you dutch or are you punjabi dutch ? weren't you the same guy on iran defence forum who bragged about the tall dutch guy Donar warrior ?

 

[PeaceGen]

Are you dutch or are you punjabi dutch ? weren't you the same guy on iran defence forum who bragged about the tall dutch guy Donar warrior ?

i'm Dutch and my lineage is Dutch + a bit of German ancestry.
and i don't go to the iran defence forum.
nor any iran subforum on defence.pk

and i dont brag either

 

[PeaceGen]

ON IRAN'S SPACE PROGRAM

i, and many others in Western nations, and in Israel (an admitted target for too many Iranians including those in power there),
have stated years ago already, before the Obama - Iran nuclear deal was signed, that running a space program can easily teach a country too much about how to make ICBMs.

This ICBM issue in Iran is now on the agenda to be negotiated about. I suspect our opening line will be that we want to see Iran verifiably dismantle all of it's ICBMs and ICBM and ICBM-launcher production facilities.

And Iran is going to have to negotiate openly and very honestly about their activities outside their borders from now on.
('4th Pillar of the new Iranian deal', as named by President Macron from France, 2018/04).

Iran can choose to escalate in response to this valid but also increased new pressure for more concessions from the Iranians during negotiations for a new nuclear deal with them that prevents severe sanctions from being enforced against Iran) from the international community, to restart their nuclear program, or to even retreat from the NPT (Nuclear weapons Non-Proliferation Treaty), but that is the road to severe misery for the entire Iranian people and leaderships. Because it brings the option of regime-change (much?) closer. Or, what we're likely to try first now, is to sanction the shit out of the luxury economy parts of the Iranian economy (an example: no more servicing of Iranian-owned private jets anywhere in the world, and no renting of private jets to Iranians anywhere in the world), but to sell the basic commodities (basic food, water, heating fuel) on the cheap to the people of Iran. and that's just 2 examples working in tandem. if this strategy is ever worked out into dozens or hundreds of examples like that, then it's possible to deprive just the elite of most of their perks.
that might not be enough. foreign investment into and from Iran would be forbidden too. meanwhile any military bases or tech that we outlawed for Iran can be hit with precision strikes. weapon sales to Iran should be forbidden too, and their air defenses should be taken out on a case-by-case basis.
this leaves the elites with a desire for a nuclear weapons program but no means to start it up, in a country that is slowly deteriorating in terms of bridge quality and stuff like that.

and then, if the government of Iran were to stay stubborn and uncooperative, the people of Iran would try to protest, which Iran is known (The Green Movement of Iran incidents of a few years ago) to strike down hard with their military.
That would plunge a country the size of Iran into exactly the same mess as we've seen unfold in Syria by Assad and his cronies. And that's something i really want to avoid.

so the moment protests by Iranians start, we should be on the look out for the first minor uses of violence by Iranian police to disperse a crowd of protesters. Let's get it right this time. We plan the mission in great detail long before we need to execute it (we can time it right, through tweaking of the sanctions regime), and we fire from a US + EU coalition force onto every palace of the Assad regime, all of his government buildings, all government weapons caches and military assets.

and we get the Russians aboard by promising that the new government of Syria will be encouraged to allow Russia a medium-large naval base and an military airbase in Syria.

CIA: i know what i'm doing. this will work. it'll scare the shit out of the Ayatollah, and that's what's needed to get the warmongerers and liars in Iran back in line.
CIA : i am also going to have to give Trump a serious talking-to about his views of who is allowed bases in Syria, and mine. {see earlier posts by me in the last 2 days on this forum}

The actual government-level details about what will be asked and what will be given for both the Iran nuclear deal 2018 and the North-Korean nuclear deal 2018, won't be known until around May 14th.
These terms can be shaped. And i have circumstantial evidence that this forum is frequented by government intel agencies and high-level politicians and diplomats too. That may be due to the fact that people like me sometimes give express updates via email or other comm channels about interesting posts that propose an alternative to a problem that affects life or death of many people.

if Iran wants to have a geopolitically and domestic-politically smart space program, don't build launch rockets at all. build stuff that goes on launch rockets and is good at analyzing the solar system. if you want to score points, go find stuff out there that is worth money to humanity.

the risk of Iran exiting the NPT with advanced knowledge of how to safely produce nuclear material and nuclear weapons, can not be tolerated at all. regime-change is an option that is also on the table, and it will be every time the deal threatens to break down. but it's far from the only option on the table, and we are open to honest discussions about your desires and needs as a country, Iranians. if the harbor on the Mediterranean sea that you seem to desire were to be an economic one, then i can do my best to get that carrot offered to you, for you to keep forever.

i am a firm believer in the fact that yes, the USA has built too many bases outside's it's own border as part of a containment strategy, and understandably (Russian nukes in Cuba removal tensions in the 1960s) people just don't like military bases on the other side of their borders.
Plus, weapons are getting longer ranges, and are quicker to arrive safely to precisely strike a large or small target.

it's impossible to sketch a new status quo. the status quo drifts like a slow moving river, and we're seeing a slightly faster part of that river the coming month.

to get back to the next topic Iran might bring up again:
Iran must purchase medical isotopes from the international market, and i did the math : a fast plane can reach Iran from France (where these isotopes can be safely produced and handed out responsibly) in well under the time it's needed there to perform the anti-cancer treatment on an Iranian.

Iran can not state that a need for nuclear medical isotopes means they have to produce it at home, and they should definitely not be allowed to do that either.

in fact, Iran is to stay away from all WMD and chemical warfare production technology, and to apply openly for the bases they want outside their territory, clearly stating their reasons for wanting a base, or the reason to support a militia that operates in an area (far) outside Iran's borders. If it were up to me, that would be required at all times for every country on Earth.

i want these proxy wars to become a thing of the past. the suffering put on the innocents in those regions, combined with things like how humans are causing a major extinction wave among the plants and animals on this planet, has me sometimes feeling ashamed to be a human.

shape up soldiers.
time's are changing.
and then you have to adapt to stay in your job.

 

[timmy_area51]

iran has two programs , chemical and biological

 

[Fafnir]

ON IRAN'S SPACE PROGRAM

i, and many others in Western nations, and in Israel (an admitted target for too many Iranians including those in power there),
have stated years ago already, before the Obama - Iran nuclear deal was signed, that running a space program can easily teach a country too much about how to make ICBMs.

This ICBM issue in Iran is now on the agenda to be negotiated about. I suspect our opening line will be that we want to see Iran verifiably dismantle all of it's ICBMs and ICBM and ICBM-launcher production facilities.

And Iran is going to have to negotiate openly and very honestly about their activities outside their borders from now on.
('4th Pillar of the new Iranian deal', as named by President Macron from France, 2018/04).

Iran can choose to escalate in response to this valid but also increased new pressure for more concessions from the Iranians during negotiations for a new nuclear deal with them that prevents severe sanctions from being enforced against Iran) from the international community, to restart their nuclear program, or to even retreat from the NPT (Nuclear weapons Non-Proliferation Treaty), but that is the road to severe misery for the entire Iranian people and leaderships. Because it brings the option of regime-change (much?) closer. Or, what we're likely to try first now, is to sanction the shit out of the luxury economy parts of the Iranian economy (an example: no more servicing of Iranian-owned private jets anywhere in the world, and no renting of private jets to Iranians anywhere in the world), but to sell the basic commodities (basic food, water, heating fuel) on the cheap to the people of Iran. and that's just 2 examples working in tandem. if this strategy is ever worked out into dozens or hundreds of examples like that, then it's possible to deprive just the elite of most of their perks.
that might not be enough. foreign investment into and from Iran would be forbidden too. meanwhile any military bases or tech that we outlawed for Iran can be hit with precision strikes. weapon sales to Iran should be forbidden too, and their air defenses should be taken out on a case-by-case basis.
this leaves the elites with a desire for a nuclear weapons program but no means to start it up, in a country that is slowly deteriorating in terms of bridge quality and stuff like that.

and then, if the government of Iran were to stay stubborn and uncooperative, the people of Iran would try to protest, which Iran is known (The Green Movement of Iran incidents of a few years ago) to strike down hard with their military.
That would plunge a country the size of Iran into exactly the same mess as we've seen unfold in Syria by Assad and his cronies. And that's something i really want to avoid.

so the moment protests by Iranians start, we should be on the look out for the first minor uses of violence by Iranian police to disperse a crowd of protesters. Let's get it right this time. We plan the mission in great detail long before we need to execute it (we can time it right, through tweaking of the sanctions regime), and we fire from a US + EU coalition force onto every palace of the Assad regime, all of his government buildings, all government weapons caches and military assets.

and we get the Russians aboard by promising that the new government of Syria will be encouraged to allow Russia a medium-large naval base and an military airbase in Syria.

CIA: i know what i'm doing. this will work. it'll scare the shit out of the Ayatollah, and that's what's needed to get the warmongerers and liars in Iran back in line.
CIA : i am also going to have to give Trump a serious talking-to about his views of who is allowed bases in Syria, and mine. {see earlier posts by me in the last 2 days on this forum}

The actual government-level details about what will be asked and what will be given for both the Iran nuclear deal 2018 and the North-Korean nuclear deal 2018, won't be known until around May 14th.
These terms can be shaped. And i have circumstantial evidence that this forum is frequented by government intel agencies and high-level politicians and diplomats too. That may be due to the fact that people like me sometimes give express updates via email or other comm channels about interesting posts that propose an alternative to a problem that affects life or death of many people.

if Iran wants to have a geopolitically and domestic-politically smart space program, don't build launch rockets at all. build stuff that goes on launch rockets and is good at analyzing the solar system. if you want to score points, go find stuff out there that is worth money to humanity.

the risk of Iran exiting the NPT with advanced knowledge of how to safely produce nuclear material and nuclear weapons, can not be tolerated at all. regime-change is an option that is also on the table, and it will be every time the deal threatens to break down. but it's far from the only option on the table, and we are open to honest discussions about your desires and needs as a country, Iranians. if the harbor on the Mediterranean sea that you seem to desire were to be an economic one, then i can do my best to get that carrot offered to you, for you to keep forever.

i am a firm believer in the fact that yes, the USA has built too many bases outside's it's own border as part of a containment strategy, and understandably (Russian nukes in Cuba removal tensions in the 1960s) people just don't like military bases on the other side of their borders.
Plus, weapons are getting longer ranges, and are quicker to arrive safely to precisely strike a large or small target.

it's impossible to sketch a new status quo. the status quo drifts like a slow moving river, and we're seeing a slightly faster part of that river the coming month.

to get back to the next topic Iran might bring up again:
Iran must purchase medical isotopes from the international market, and i did the math : a fast plane can reach Iran from France (where these isotopes can be safely produced and handed out responsibly) in well under the time it's needed there to perform the anti-cancer treatment on an Iranian.

Iran can not state that a need for nuclear medical isotopes means they have to produce it at home, and they should definitely not be allowed to do that either.

in fact, Iran is to stay away from all WMD and chemical warfare production technology, and to apply openly for the bases they want outside their territory, clearly stating their reasons for wanting a base, or the reason to support a militia that operates in an area (far) outside Iran's borders. If it were up to me, that would be required at all times for every country on Earth.

i want these proxy wars to become a thing of the past. the suffering put on the innocents in those regions, combined with things like how humans are causing a major extinction wave among the plants and animals on this planet, has me sometimes feeling ashamed to be a human.

shape up soldiers.
time's are changing.
and then you have to adapt to stay in your job.

LOL!,LOL,LOL!
If I honestly didnt know better I`d swear this post was written by that pompous snail eating prick macron,it literally has that exact same level of arrogance matched only by the posters utter ignorance of all things iranian especially the part about [LOL!!] ICBMs [LOL!!]...um..you do realise that ICBM actually stands for INTERCONTINENTAL ballistic missile,as in a missile with a range in excess of 5500kms,now it may in fact interest you to know that irans longest ranged missiles such as the ghadir 110 has a range of at most 2000kms which puts them firmly in the MEDIUM range class.Now as for satellite/space launchers these have historically for obvious reasons made very poor icbms,tho some icbms have been reconfigured as space launchers but thats a different story.Interestingly both iranian and north korean launchers are somewhat similar as both are based on the same technology ie rodong missile engines,tho the iranian engine set up is a little better designed,now interestingly the dprk didnt bother pissing about trying to weaponize a taepo dong or unha as some western "experts"[lol!] thought they would,instead they developed 4 [!] icbm designs 2 of which were based on a indigenously developed 2 chamber engine block using 2 soviet 4d10 engines before scrapping that in favor of 2 new designs that used single and twin chamber versions of the rd250[probably].So we can see that iran has nothing that can be used as an icbm currently.
Frankly I would have thought the west would have learnt a salutary lesson from the last time an incompetent buffoon[yes george jr I`m talking about you] of a us president tore up what he considered to be a predecessors unfavorable nuclear deal with another state,yes thats right you wound up with a newly minted nuclear.....actually thermonuclear armed state,do you really want another one as well?,because honestly I think thats what you are potentially risking with this utter stupidity.
Lastly If I was you m8 before I even considered posting on the subject of iran again on this site I would make a real effort to actually learn about iran particularly its recent history,especially from the start of the 20th century and indeed the wests unfortunate history of meddling in the middle east as a whole,I`d also stop relying on sources like fox news or indeed most of what passes for the western,especially american,media these days.But be warned you probably wont like what you find out,but it may give you some real actual valuable insight in to why iran is the nation it is today and why it does the things it does.
And finally its not up to the west to decide for iran whether it gets a nuclear program,or what sort of program that will be,or whether it will become a nuclear armed nation or not,just like its not up to the west to decide if iran gets to build launchers or satellites or both because those decisions rest solely with the sovereign government of iran and no one else,its also not up to the west to decide what happens to syria or who gets a base there because thats up to the sovereign government of syria and its allies which last time I looked didnt include the west who was actively supporting the terrorists....er....I mean moderates.
I think one of the main problems here is that sadly the west has never been able to reconcile with itself the fact that iran is no longer one of its regional vassals and indeed has not been so for almost 40 years now,hopefully it will not take another 40 years for the west to accept this fact but sadly I`m just not that optimistic.

 

[salarsikander]

you *don't* have the right to 'bring any system'. if a system you bring disrupts the world economy, that brings serious potential for economic suffering to us, and with that the start of military-level attrition (degrading of strength over time).

we over here don't want to be ruled by Muslims, or Chinese, or Russians. we don't want to be crippled economically or militarily either, we don't like how Muslims or Chinese or Russians run their parts of the world. we have our own way of life.

and to protect that way of life, we are forced by peoples that have come to hate us, to set strong examples from time to time, but only when provoked. and we'll make sure we continue to be able to defend ourselves and our economies.



if we leave you alone, the global oil market is seriously disrupted by all the infighting between Muslims in the Middle East.
that is a very serious threat to our way of life, up the point that we'd have serious trouble keeping our supermarkets supplied, let alone power the rest of our economy.

and there are other more subtle ways that Muslims try to use (re-introduction of even a tiny gold-based economy, a quick transition away from using the US Dollar for international trade of for instance oil), to achieve such total chaos here in the West that we'd collapse as a civilization.
we're not going to let any such thing happen. not ever. it's one of the reasons we're not into expensive ground invasions anymore, and having recently (Trump said this yesterday with Macron from France next to him in a public annoucnement on TV) put the wealthy Arab Gulf allies on notice to start paying more for American help in their extended region (aka Saudis paying the bill for US troops in Syria, and Saudi troops helping in Syria alongside US troops, something like that).
So the original grand plan of alQuada ('force The West into invasion after invasion to drain their treasury and get and endless supply of new recruits at the same time), and their 2nd big plan ('starve our own people to gain more recruits')... both of these plans are now thoroughly defeated.

and we know that if a morally sane side like ours has a clear military advantage over another group (Muslims) that hates us intensely (and often for bullshit reasons or reasons based on lies), war can be prevented in most cases.
therefore all this talk about military equality and how it's "unfair" that Israel has nukes (to protect against another multi-country ground attack by Arab states), but that Iran can't have nukes, is dangerous cow-poop-quality argumentation.

equally armed sides where even only 1 side hates the other enough to attack it (sneakily or openly), result in long awful wars.
on the other hand, a free-press democracy that has in *all* aspects the best military capability of the world, can be a good cop force for the world, but only if the less evolved warring politically-ambitious groups/countries have significantly less military capability.
so we'll be keeping that that way as well.

but we'll be much more careful in the future, about implementing sanctions in ways that will increasingly surely not hurt the innocents living in the countries that must undergo pressure by the west. the same will be true for our future military strikes.

we are not stupid enough to feed you new recruits and actively work towards endless war.
we like peace, and we like to keep our wars short.


IRAN-DEAL

we'll have to wait until the statements by the US, EU, Russia and of course Iran itself, plus the commentaries flowing into the major newspapers of those countries, have all had a chance to hit the web.
starting May 12, the deadline for the old Iran nuclear deal to be extended by the US, i'll report on this forum in more detail.

i'll follow a similar protocol for the upcoming North-Korea - USA summit.

in both cases, i may wait a few days before commenting. i'd like to hear the opinions from around the world about what was said in each of these negotiations, first. and then i may need about 10 to 48 hours to form my own opinion and post it here.

but if things get out of hand, i'm going to step in and post my own opinions as i form them, and will be emailing them around to news organisations and governments. this has proven effective in the past. to remain modest, i won't go into details about which wars i've postponed indefinitely so far.

IRAN-SYRIA-RUSSIA deal

i can imagine both Iran and Russia wanting each a naval and air base in Syria as part of their deals with Assad.
if Assad and Russia and Iran can agree to truly cooperate to the max when it comes to the re-location of the surviving moderate opposition of Syria (the EU would need to take in more than a few Syrian refugees too in that case) and grant them decent standards of living too,

then Syria is fixed.

Israel can be easily protected, and neither the Russians' nor the Iranians' bases in Syria will pose a serious threat to regional or global stability.
I'll give Trump a few more days to clarify why he said yesterday at the oval office breefing together with Macron from France, that the US would not allow Iranian military bases in Syria. if he can't give very good reasons, i'm going to pressure the USA to opt for the honerable retreat strategy.
ending the suffering, the return of stability, the rebuilding of residential areas, *that's winning the war*.
if you have to do it by shifting your own defense plans for Israel and the Mediterranean Sea, then so be it.
ffs, we already have the hardware for it.

{this message will be forwarded to the CIA to begin with}

Another diabolic comment that I didn't even bother to read in full, fact of the matter is you're just a hypocrite that's all.

 

[PeaceGen]

Another diabolic comment that I didn't even bother to read in full, fact of the matter is you're just a hypocrite that's all.

i'm not a hypocrite, unlike you and your kind, salarsikander. you would gladly let Israel be wiped off the map and Syria and Iraq and Libya ruled by brutal dictatorships. You would let Iran continue their evil in Yemen, and you would praise the "victories" of those you agree with while calling victories of your opponents warcrimes.

you blame your opponents for all that is wrong in your region, but refuse to look at your own attitude and actions objectively or even for the purpose of seeing whether they reap you any real long-term results at all.

you are the classical asshole who will stay in war, try to keep others in war, all for some twisted sense of glory and hope of domination.

you're the kind of arrogant short-tempered fool who holds onto their own hatred so strongly there is no other way to deal with you but firmly.

you and your friends are luckily quite irrelevant for the bigger picture.

i don't write on this forum to convince you, i write on this forum to send out messages to officials on how to reduce suffering in the future.

and finally, it was muslims like you who supported attacking the West on 9/11/2001 and before then.
you're a hate mongerer against the West, salarsikander. that makes you a terror group recruitment tool, and someone i will have no trouble countering, now or in the future.

LOL!,LOL,LOL!
If I honestly didnt know better I`d swear this post was written by that pompous snail eating prick macron,it literally has that exact same level of arrogance matched only by the posters utter ignorance of all things iranian especially the part about [LOL!!] ICBMs [LOL!!]...um..you do realise that ICBM actually stands for INTERCONTINENTAL ballistic missile,as in a missile with a range in excess of 5500kms,now it may in fact interest you to know that irans longest ranged missiles such as the ghadir 110 has a range of at most 2000kms which puts them firmly in the MEDIUM range class.Now as for satellite/space launchers these have historically for obvious reasons made very poor icbms,tho some icbms have been reconfigured as space launchers but thats a different story.Interestingly both iranian and north korean launchers are somewhat similar as both are based on the same technology ie rodong missile engines,tho the iranian engine set up is a little better designed,now interestingly the dprk didnt bother pissing about trying to weaponize a taepo dong or unha as some western "experts"[lol!] thought they would,instead they developed 4 [!] icbm designs 2 of which were based on a indigenously developed 2 chamber engine block using 2 soviet 4d10 engines before scrapping that in favor of 2 new designs that used single and twin chamber versions of the rd250[probably].So we can see that iran has nothing that can be used as an icbm currently.
Frankly I would have thought the west would have learnt a salutary lesson from the last time an incompetent buffoon[yes george jr I`m talking about you] of a us president tore up what he considered to be a predecessors unfavorable nuclear deal with another state,yes thats right you wound up with a newly minted nuclear.....actually thermonuclear armed state,do you really want another one as well?,because honestly I think thats what you are potentially risking with this utter stupidity.
Lastly If I was you m8 before I even considered posting on the subject of iran again on this site I would make a real effort to actually learn about iran particularly its recent history,especially from the start of the 20th century and indeed the wests unfortunate history of meddling in the middle east as a whole,I`d also stop relying on sources like fox news or indeed most of what passes for the western,especially american,media these days.But be warned you probably wont like what you find out,but it may give you some real actual valuable insight in to why iran is the nation it is today and why it does the things it does.
And finally its not up to the west to decide for iran whether it gets a nuclear program,or what sort of program that will be,or whether it will become a nuclear armed nation or not,just like its not up to the west to decide if iran gets to build launchers or satellites or both because those decisions rest solely with the sovereign government of iran and no one else,its also not up to the west to decide what happens to syria or who gets a base there because thats up to the sovereign government of syria and its allies which last time I looked didnt include the west who was actively supporting the terrorists....er....I mean moderates.
I think one of the main problems here is that sadly the west has never been able to reconcile with itself the fact that iran is no longer one of its regional vassals and indeed has not been so for almost 40 years now,hopefully it will not take another 40 years for the west to accept this fact but sadly I`m just not that optimistic.

you clearly don't understand much about keeping the peace at all.
and i've already explained why there can't and shouldn't and won't be weapons equality for Muslim nations. your kind can not be trusted with it at all.

 

[Fafnir]

i'm not a hypocrite, unlike you and your kind, salarsikander. you would gladly let Israel be wiped off the map and Syria and Iraq and Libya ruled by brutal dictatorships. You would let Iran continue their evil in Yemen, and you would praise the "victories" of those you agree with while calling victories of your opponents warcrimes.

you blame your opponents for all that is wrong in your region, but refuse to look at your own attitude and actions objectively or even for the purpose of seeing whether they reap you any real long-term results at all.

you are the classical asshole who will stay in war, try to keep others in war, all for some twisted sense of glory and hope of domination.

you're the kind of arrogant short-tempered fool who holds onto their own hatred so strongly there is no other way to deal with you but firmly.

you and your friends are luckily quite irrelevant for the bigger picture.

i don't write on this forum to convince you, i write on this forum to send out messages to officials on how to reduce suffering in the future.

and finally, it was muslims like you who supported attacking the West on 9/11/2001 and before then.
you're a hate mongerer against the West, salarsikander. that makes you a terror group recruitment tool, and someone i will have no trouble countering, now or in the future.



you clearly don't understand much about keeping the peace at all.
and i've already explained why there can't and shouldn't and won't be weapons equality for Muslim nations. your kind can not be trusted with it at all.

My "kind"!?,and what pray tell "kind" is that exactly?,as in new zealanders perhaps?[LOL!],I hate to break this to you you utterly worthless bigoted piece of walking human excrement but I`m not a muslim,I`m also a westerner by virtue of being born a new zealand citizen,of scots,irish,english stock in case you were wondering,because I know how race and religion are just sooo important to people like yourself,who just happens to believe that it is certainly not okay for the west to believe and to act as tho it was given some sort of god given right to decide for other people what their nations national interests are and how they should be run and for whose benefit etc..
Now as for "keeping the peace",if the intent of the wests century plus of meddling in the middle east was to achieve peace then I think that virtually everyone could agree that not only was this a total and complete failure but that it was an utterly miserable total and complete failure in literally every respect and that indeed far from trying to keep the peace western meddling especially in the post ww2/cold war era was actually responsible for the vast majority of the wars,terror,despotism and general instability that continues to plague the region right up to the present day.
Its funny that you give yourself the handle "peacefan" when its very clear from your posts that the only sort of "peace",I use the term loosely of course,that you are interested in keeping is one based on capitulation to the demands of the west ie the good old bad old "do as we say or else",altho in irans case with the new extras the west wants to add to the jcpoa its more a case of "we made them an offer they couldnt refuse",I guess we`ll just have to see how that approach works out for you vis a vis iran personally I wouldnt be that optimistic if I was you or macron for that matter.

 

[PeaceGen]

YEMEN'S HOUTHIS

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32178058

The Romans had a name for Yemen.

They called it Arabia Felix - Happy Arabia - because of its lush, rain-fed mountain scenery.

Today that epithet sounds tragically inappropriate.

Already the poorest country in the Middle East, wracked by soaring unemployment, dwindling oil and water reserves and home to the most dangerous branch of al-Qaeda, now Yemen is being torn apart by war of many sides.

The Saudi-led air strikes began last month, raining down precision-guided missiles on a rebel group called the Houthis who swept down from their mountain stronghold in the far north six months ago, taking town after town, and pushing out the UN-recognised President Hadi.

That alarmed the Saudis and the other Gulf Arab states, especially as they suspect the hand of Iran as being behind the Houthis' spectacular blitzkrieg.

How else, Saudis keep saying to me, could an impoverished group of tribesmen get the training, the weapons and the money to take over half the country?

There's a sectarian angle here too. The Houthi rebels are Zaidi Shias, representing about a third of the population. The Saudi rulers are suspicious of Shias, many of whom look to Iran for spiritual leadership.

Saudi Arabia is a predominately Sunni Muslim country and the Saudis are starting to think they're getting encircled by proxies of Iran wherever they look: in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and now Yemen.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/2015/01/21/Saleh-and-the-Houthis-power-grab-in-Yemen.html

....
Houthis are like Lebanon’s Hezbollah who wants to control state institutions to serve its own interests but without having to be involved in the government's obligation to provide services to the people. The situation in Yemen is not less difficult than Lebanon's management. Although they've been keen on not harming the president, the Houthis are making a major mistake by taking over the presidential palace.
....

I call upon all Middle Eastern states to spread their influence and way of Quran interpretation only through peaceful means.

And i warn the Iranian leaderships that this sort of behaviour, when proven, would put a lot of weight on the scale that indicates the need for regime change of Iran.
we're trying to get rid of proxy wars. and we need to refine our skills of regime change anyways. and we have within a year a fully revitalized US army.
that means we will have the resources and means to affect regime-change upon Iran. we even have qualified leaders who are likely to play along with the international community much better than the current leaderships of Iran.
That would stabilize the entire Iran-Iraq region into a kind of Islamic region like Turkey, with the potential to end up as peaceful as Indonesia.

so, Ayatollah and other current Iranian leaders, stop giving us reason to affect regime change.
i guarantee that with what we learned in Iraq, you won't get nearly as much anti-western recruitment power from a regime changing of Iran, as you did with Iraq and Libya. you'd be facing entirely new strategies and methods of using western weapons against your military assets.
those are being planned, but we plan for that in the very honest real hope that we won't have to use it.
that's why we're telling you up front, on a channel (defence.pk) that we know you read, Iranians.

this is not me speaking for NATO, i'm not a spy, i'm a civilian who is interested in geo politics to prevent unnecessary suffering of humans.

but it is advice to all concerned, especially to the CIA and the intel agencies of Saudi, Israel, Russia, Iran, etc, etc.

to get back to the points at hand.... let's aim high here, and have a wishlist for all the stuff we here in the West would need to see Iran do to be able to once again see Iran and it's current leadership structures as an honorable trustworthy country.

- Iran shall have no nuclear centrifuges
- Iran shall have no nuclear materials other than nuclear fuel to be used exclusively in nuclear reactors, and medical isotopes bought from outside Iran for immediate use in Iran's hospitals, delivered from France or Pakistan by air courier (which is the only realistic option to get isotopes with medical value on location in time).
- Iran will have no biological weapons and no chemical weapons production facilities or stockpiles.
- Iran will not research, build, nor hold, any short- or medium-range missiles or long range missiles that can be used against ground targets.
- Iran will not research, build, nor hold, any sort of space launch vehicles. The knowledge gained building these can way too easily be adapted to build nuke-carrying ICBMs and medium-range ballistic missiles.
- Iran will only make peaceful equipment for use in space that is completely without weapons, and Iran can launch such peaceful space tech using launch facilities run by established space launch companies.
- Iran will not militarily assist in any way, groups or individually outside it's own borders
- Iran will not publicly or secretly : sponsor, encourage, or direct violence via proxy-forces, militia, mercenaries or civilians, outside it's borders.
- Iran will not provide (publicly or secretly) any training or encouragement to groups fighting wars outside it's borders.
- finally, the international community should remain able to inspect at any time anywhere inside Iran (without exceptions) whether or not Iran is complying with this new peace deal.

And if Iran really wants to be a good regional partner, they'd stop the propaganda against Israel on their own media outlets, and then after about 10 years of that, publicly recognize Israel's right to exist where it is, while at the same time providing peaceful help to the Palestinians. water projects (https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/wate...lis-palestinians-and-their-neighbours.547222/) for instance, and assistance to get more Arab land handed over as a gift to the Palestinian nation.

Muslim warfare skills are completely evil at the moment. And i'm not just talking about terrorism.
The Arab coalition now fighting the Houtis in Yemen follow a single tactic ('kill as many of them as you can'), a tactic that WILL sow perpetual war[1] each day it's used.

The rest of the suffering in the Middle East comes to a very large degree from the fact that you advocate hatred towards Muslims of other tribes, and towards The West, towards anyone who doesn't totally agree with you and gives you what you want for cheap or free.

Iranians, Saudis, Egyptians abroad, all Arab nations now at war somewhere else in the Middle East, know jack-shit of the modern art of war.
So let me tell you once more it's primary lesson : avoid the loss of innocent life and avoid innocents suffering during your war.
or it's a guaranteed recipe for wars that last longer than a century until something changes.

basic muslim warrior culture is currently based on 3 things :
die in combat, and you go to Heaven no matter what evil you did in your war,
and : try to annihilate the opponent and control (oppress) what's left of the opponent if you win a war.
and : [1] : use deaths among your own to gain new recruits, using the lines that if you die, you go to Heaven, and that life here on Earth is suffering anyhow.

you Muslims have a very important choice to make : how long do you want the Middle East to be at war with eachother, how far will you let your own soul be corrupted by all that violence and lying, etc.? you've set it up in a way where it could last longer than one-thousand years.

fortunately there's the sane part of the world (US, EU, South-America, Russia, China, Australia) and we do have weapons that are getting better each day at killing just the killers and not the bystanders.

Iranians, you have a chance to back down and go peaceful in your evangalism and drive to have influence outside your borders.
If you do not, i'm going to have to consider putting you on the list to get regime-changed.

in fact, Muslim world, the best way to end the war is to invest 20 to 100 years of educating your young and your teenagers to simply respect or ignore the ways of others, instead of to tell them over and over to hate large groups of people who dont share their exact way of life.
only then can you overcome the "need" for war over resources and land.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/wate...lis-palestinians-and-their-neighbours.547222/

 

[salarsikander]

you are the classical asshole who will stay in war, try to keep others in war, all for some twisted sense of glory and hope of domination

Motherfker it was your pathetic kind that fought ww2 slaughtered Jews like pigs, your fkiing kind. European, asshole it is yur white kind that has been on Muslims since 2003 bombing civilians as collateral damage for non existent WMD. I hope you die a very terrible and painful death. Amen
Fking ignorant hypocrite

 

[PeaceGen]

Motherfker it was your pathetic kind that fought ww2 slaughtered Jews like pigs, your fkiing kind. European, asshole it is yur white kind that has been on Muslims since 2003 bombing civilians as collateral damage for non existent WMD. I hope you die a very terrible and painful death. Amen
Fking ignorant hypocrite

and that proves you know nothing about history either.

 

[salarsikander]

and that proves you know nothing about history either.

Dumbshit will now tell me that ww2 had nothing to do with his pathetic kind. Fk off and quote me