Iran Launches Early Pilgrimage Politicization Battle, Saudi Arabia Refutes Allegations

[BLACKEAGLE]

Iran Launches Early Pilgrimage Politicization Battle, Saudi Arabia Refutes Allegations

Abdullah alHayda and Walid Abdulrahman14 hours ago 147

Pilgrims performing their rituals. Reuters

Riyadh, Cairo-Every year, as the Hajj season approaches, Saudi Arabia, represented by the Ministry of Hajj, starts preparing for their guests by organizing meetings with representatives of Muslim countries and Muslim minorities around the world.

These meetings aim at discussing requirements and arrangements for the delegations, considering it a Saudi duty for more than 80 years now.

Despite Iran’s attempts to politicize Hajj in various ways, this year it has chosen to launch allegations regarding the rituals so early.

In response to these allegations, the Ministry of Hajj and Umrah said, in a statement on Thursday, the Iranian Hajj delegation had earlier refused to sign a standard agreement with Saudi Arabia that is mandatory for all nations sending pilgrims, and the delegation had left the country.

The ministry said the Iranians had demanded several concessions including Iran and Saudi carriers must share equally in transporting pilgrims, and to have Saudi Hajj visas issued in Iran.

It also said 78 countries are required to send Hajj delegations to finalize arrangements for their pilgrims, and the president of the Iranian Hajj delegation, Said Owhadi, was invited to have these discussions too.

The kingdom, “welcomes all pilgrims from all over the world and from all nationalities and sectarian backgrounds, and does not stop any Muslim from coming,” the ministry of Hajj said in its statement.

An Iranian delegation held four days of talks with Saudi Arabia in April this year to discuss hajj arrangements, the first face-to-face negotiation between the two countries in months since diplomatic relations were severed after the attack on the Saudi Embassy in Iran and its Consulate in Mashhad, but with Saudi diplomatic missions in Iran still closed and Iranian flights to the kingdom halted, the talks hit a deadlock.

However, Iran’s minister of culture and Islamic guidance, Ali Jannati, said Thursday that the talks had gone poorly, asserting that there would be no hajj participation by Iran this year as he blamed the Saudis.

“Their attitude was cold and inappropriate,” Jannati said in remarks quoted by the Iranian state-sponsored website Press TV. “They did not accept our proposals concerning the issuing of visas, the transport and security of the pilgrims.”

He said: “Conditions are not ripe for conducting hajj. We have lost time. We made our utmost effort but the sabotage is coming from the Saudis.”

“Saudi officials say our pilgrims must travel to another country to submit their visa applications.”

Iran wants Saudi Arabia to issue visas through the Swiss embassy in Tehran, which has looked after Saudi interests since Riyadh broke off ties in January. The Saudi Hajj ministry, however, said it informed the Iranians that they could get their visas through the online system used for all pilgrims coming from abroad.

Meanwhile, Ulamas in Al-Azhar refused allegations announced by Iran on Thursday claiming that Saudi Arabia is halting Iranians from performing their Pilgrimage rituals this year.

Al-Azhar scholars and intellectuals said: “Saudi Arabia has never, throughout history, prevented any Muslim from performing the fifth Islamic pillar, and it has recorded a bright history in serving the two Holy Mosques and the pilgrims, who travel all the way to Saudi Arabia for this goal.”

They also told Asharq Al-Awsat on Thursday that “Iran has political irresponsibility and is trying to integrate its political goals in religious disputes,” adding what Iran is trying to do by what it has announced in the name of Saudi Arabia is an attempt to ignite sectarian strife.
http://english.aawsat.com/2016/05/a...ation-battle-saudi-arabia-refutes-allegations

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Saudi Arabia: Iranian Delegation Refuses to Sign Annual Hajj Agreement

Asharq Al-Awsat1 day ago 218

Riyadh- The Saudi Ministry of Hajj, once again, confirmed that the people of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the Kingdom’s leadership and the Kingdom’s government warmly welcome and are honored to host pilgrims visiting Mecca for Hajj and Umrah, irrespective of their nationality or sect.
The Kingdom considers the well-being and hosting of pilgrims a duty called upon by Islam and thus is a highly-held responsibility.

The Ministry of Hajj declared that on an annual basis and acting under royal decree issued by Saudi Arabia’s Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, the ministry would send an invitation to all officials responsible for Hajj affairs across the world, requesting their attendance for pilgrimage preparations and for consulting on needed arrangements and requirements for the pilgrims of each Hajj season.
Over 78 countries are reached yearly, among which is the Islamic Republic of Iran.

According to the aforementioned, Iranian Deputy Minister and Head of the Hajj and Pilgrimage Hajj Said Owhadi was invited to Saudi Arabia to discuss and arrange on behalf of the Iranian pilgrims, and discuss the annual requirements of each visitor to be able to fulfill this season’s rites.

The Ministry of Hajj arranged the Iranian delegation to access the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia as to discuss this year’s Hajj season.

The Saudi Ministry of Hajj later revealed that the Iranian delegation refused to sign the agreement on finalizing the arrangements for this year’s pilgrimage. The delegation justified its refusal to sign by wishing to refer to higher authority back home. The delegation had insisted on a score of conditions among which was that Iranian pilgrims receive their visas from within Iran.

The Iranian delegation had left the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia on Tuesday without signing the agreement, despite that the Ministry of Hajj had informed the delegation that Iranian pilgrims may apply and receive their visas online through filling a form on a unified e-system application for prospect pilgrims worldwide.

As for Umrah- a term used for minor pilgrimage or pilgrimage at any time of the year- the Ministry clarified that Iranian visitors were stopped from visiting the Two Holy Mosques by the Iranian government and not by authority in Saudi Arabia.

The statement issued by the Saudi Ministry of Hajj reiterated the Kingdom’s commitment to hosting Muslim pilgrims and devoting all given capacities and guaranteeing the pilgrims’ security, safety and well-being.

As for the topic on Iranians not attending this year’s Hajj season, the Ministry of Hajj held the Iranian delegation solely responsible.
http://english.aawsat.com/2016/05/a...delegation-refuses-sign-annual-hajj-agreement

 

[Aramagedon]

Iranians protected Mecca/Arabs 1600 years before Saudi house dominated entire Arabia.
When prophet Muhammad (PBUH ) was 6 years old it was Iranians that protected Mecca.


wikipedia: Persian influence in Islam can be viewed from a pre and post-Islamic perspective. In the era prior to the invasion of Persia by the Arab army, the Sassanids played a key political role in Arabia and in fate of Islam; In 575 CE Sassanid Persians actually protected the Arabian city of Mecca from invasion by a neighbouring Christian Kingdom at the request of the southern tribes of Arabia from then Persian emperor Khosrau I. In response Khosrau came south to Arabia with both foot-soldiers and a fleet of ships preventing Christianity from spreading easterward into Arabia, and Mecca and protecting the Islamic prophet Muhammad, who was at the time a six-year-old boy in the Quraysh tribe.[102]There are a few scholars who consider that Zoroastrianism, "began the whole Western or Judaeo-Christian-Muslim concept of progressive time."[103] If this assumption is true, then role of Persian influence is that much more significant. Additionally, Persia became an important center for dissemination of Islam, as newly converted Persians, adopted Islam as their own and spread it to the periphery of the Persian empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_people

 

[Malik Alashter]

that cube is cool

Hi, ultron wat'sup buddy another account?.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

https://twitter.com/x/status/731130652242771968

 

[Serpentine]

https://twitter.com/x/status/731130652242771968

Interesting, Saudi paid newspapers, mouthpieces and accounts saying something negative about Iran, well we are surprised.

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

Interesting, Saudi paid newspapers, mouthpieces and accounts saying something negative about Iran, well we are surprised.

You can't deny the unfortunate role that SOME Iranian pilgrims have played during Hajj and Umrah since the 1980's. No other nationality regardless of their sect have been involved in that many controversies nor has any group of pilgrims actively tried to politicize the sacred rituals during Hajj and Umrah which are supposed to be completely free from politics.

Hajj and Umrah are not supposed to be hijacked but serve as a unifying force that unites Muslims of all sects, ethnic, racial, national, social, e backgrounds.

Speaking about media, Iranian media has no reason to envy Saudi Arabian and Arab media when it comes to the relationship the other way around.

Would the Iranian regime tolerate this kind of behavior from foreign pilgrims in Mashhad and Qom? Of course the situation there is widely different as only Shias visit those tombs but even among Shias only a minority supports the Wilayat al-Faqih system in Iran. Let us suppose that those who do not were actively voicing their opposition to the Iranian model violently or by disrupting other pilgrims. I think we both know what would have occurred.

Look there are 1.6 billion Muslims (numbers are growing quickly almost everywhere in the Muslim world) worldwide and currently only around 3 million or so Hajis from across the world get the chance to fulfill their religious obligation and wish. When it comes to Umrah this number is 8 million. By 2030 the number during Umrah is expected to rise to 40 million and Hajis will rise to 8 million or so.

If the Iranian regime does not wish for their nationals to engage in Hajj or Umrah they should say this clearly instead of trying to politize the Hajj and Umrah rituals. The Iranian regime has never condemned those political protests in Makkah and Madinah that has continued almost each year. So there has been no interest from Iran's part to do its part of the job here.

It is the Iranian regime that has banned its citizens from coming not the other way around.

Also of course the relations are "cold" when Iranians attack sovereign embassies (once again) and openly meddle in the internal affairs of sovereign nations and cry about the execution of terrorists. When the Iranian regime executes Sunni clerics (Kurds, Arabs and Baloch mainly) and accuse them of being "enemies of the state" or "enemies of God" this is no problem but when KSA executes its first "Shia" cleric in history, hell breaks loose.

Do you see KSA commenting whenever the Iranian regime is executing political opponents? Believe me this happens at a much, much, much greater rate in Iran. We are talking different galaxies here.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Interesting, Saudi paid newspapers, mouthpieces and accounts saying something negative about Iran, well we are surprised.

That doesn't make the video less factual. Saudi Arabia is a respectful country with high credibility which is clearly manifested by the way the world deal with it, unlike Iran, the country with worst relations with the world.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

^^To be honest, I don't think the population of Muslims around the World is growing. According to UN medium variant projections, many Muslim-majority countries are going to experience slower population growth and, eventually, population decline (i.e. negative population growth) by the end of the 21st century, including Pakistan, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Iran, Turkey, Malaysia, Uzbekistan, and Saudi Arabia. In places like Central Asia, the Gulf and the Levant, population growth has already slowed down. Apart from a few countries in Africa, most of the Muslim-majority countries around the World are going to undergo negative population growth in the coming decades (or at least by the end of the 21st century).

Plus, in addition to impending negative demographic trends, other (external/non-demographic) factors will also contribute to the decline of the global Muslim population. Irreligion, including atheism and agnosticism, is growing in the Islamic World. There was an article published a few years ago about the rise of atheism in Saudi Arabia:

Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia, despite state-enforced ban
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/12/ath...ust_talking_about_atheism_is_illegal_partner/

These two articles also describe the rise of atheism/irreligion in the Arab Muslim World:

1. https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/4898/the-rise-of-arab-atheism
2. https://newrepublic.com/article/121559/rise-arab-atheists

----------------------------------------------

Anyway, I do agree with @Bilad al-Haramayn that Iran is being incredibly hypocritical. I was personally against al-Nimr's execution because I don't think he did anything wrong and because I oppose the death penalty. I personally think the death penalty is barbaric. Nevertheless, Iran had no right to burn down the Saudi embassy in Tehran. Also, Iran executes a lot of people as well, oftentimes for minor/silly offences. More than a month ago, I read an article about a small town in Iranian Balochistan that lost its entire male population because all its men were executed by the state for drug-related offences.

How despicable. While everyone was talking about al-Nimr's execution, hardly anyone gave a damn about Iran's crimes against the Balochis and Kurds.

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

^^To be honest, I don't think the population of Muslims around the World is growing. According to UN medium variant projections, many Muslim-majority countries are going to experience slower population growth and, eventually, population decline (i.e. negative population growth) by the end of the 21st century, including Pakistan, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Iran, Turkey, Malaysia, Uzbekistan, and Saudi Arabia. In places like Central Asia, the Gulf and the Levant, population growth has already slowed down. Apart from a few countries in Africa, most of the Muslim-majority countries around the World are going to undergo negative population growth in the coming decades (or at least by the end of the 21st century).

Plus, in addition to impending negative demographic trends, other (external/non-demographic) factors will also contribute to the decline of the global Muslim population. Irreligion, including atheism and agnosticism, is growing in the Islamic World. There was an article published a few years ago about the rise of atheism in Saudi Arabia:

Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia, despite state-enforced ban
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/12/ath...ust_talking_about_atheism_is_illegal_partner/

These two articles also describe the rise of atheism/irreligion in the Arab Muslim World:

1. https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/4898/the-rise-of-arab-atheism
2. https://newrepublic.com/article/121559/rise-arab-atheists

----------------------------------------------

Anyway, I do agree with @Bilad al-Haramayn that Iran is being incredibly hypocritical. I was personally against al-Nimr's execution because I don't think he did anything wrong and because I oppose the death penalty. I personally think the death penalty is barbaric. Nevertheless, Iran had no right to burn down the Saudi embassy in Tehran. Also, Iran executes a lot of people as well, oftentimes for minor/silly offences. More than a month ago, I read an article about a small town in Iranian Balochistan that lost its entire male population because all its men were executed by the state for drug-related offences.

How despicable. While everyone was talking about al-Nimr's execution, hardly anyone gave a damn about Iran's crimes against the Balochis and Kurds.

Well, I am not an expert when it comes to the demographics of the entire world, let alone the Muslim world but I know for a fact that almost every single Arab country (some like Iraq, Yemen, Egypt etc. having an almost out-of-control population growth on the long run), all of Muslim Africa, South East Asia (Indonesia, most populous Muslim nation on the planet, Malaysia), Iran, Turkey, South Asia (they are in big trouble if their current rate continues for too much longer) have the largest population growth in the world along with Sub-Saharan African states.

So I would be very surprised if the overall Muslim population, regardless of the existing number of non-Muslims in those majority-Muslim countries or the supposed growth of Atheism, would not rise. Everything points to that being the case actually.

Just look at the enormous population growth in the Arab world in the past 100 years. What was the Arab population in 1916? I don't recall exactly but it would surprise me if it was more than 30-40 million. Today it is around 450 million and in most countries governments have only estimates to go by so the numbers are likely bigger than that.

My intention here was simply to say that Hajj and Umrah should not be politicized by any country and that it was not KSA that banned Iranian pilgrims from arriving to KSA but the Iranian government.

I read that too and I obviously don't know whether it is true or not but I personally have a very low tolerance for drug related crimes (especially if those are "hard" drugs) and neither am I against the death penalty although I disagree with the way it is carried out and practiced in Muslim countries today and by the various regimes.

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Well, I am not an expert when it comes to the demographics of the entire world, let alone the Muslim world but I know for a fact that almost every single Arab country (some like Iraq, Yemen, Egypt etc. having an almost out-of-control population growth on the long run), all of Muslim Africa, South East Asia (Indonesia, most populous Muslim nation on the planet, Malaysia), Iran, Turkey, South Asia (they are in big trouble if their current rate continues for too much longer) have the largest population growth in the world along with Sub-Saharan African states.

So I would be very surprised if the overall Muslim population, regardless of the existing number of non-Muslims in those majority-Muslim countries or the supposed growth of Atheism, would not rise. Everything points to that being the case actually.

Just look at the enormous population growth in the Arab world in the past 100 years. What was the Arab population in 1916? I don't recall exactly but it would surprise me if it was more than 30-40 million. Today it is around 450 million and in most countries governments have only estimates to go by so the numbers are likely bigger than that.

My intention here was simply to say that Hajj and Umrah should not be politicized by any country and that it was not KSA that banned Iranian pilgrims from arriving to KSA but the Iranian government.

I read that too and I obviously don't know whether it is true or not but I personally have a very low tolerance for drug related crimes (especially if those are "hard" drugs) and neither am I against the death penalty although I disagree with the way it is carried out and practiced in Muslim countries today and by the various regimes.

I went a little bit off topic, in fairness to you. Sorry about that. >_< I knew what your intention was, by the way, but I couldn't help myself lol. I had the urge to talk about future demographics.

Actually, the fertility rates in most Muslim-majority countries today are almost similar to those of First World countries:

The fertility gap between the Muslim-majority countries and the non-Muslim-majority countries is getting narrower.

As for the latest UN medium variant projections, you can find them in this link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...on_(United_Nations,_medium_fertility_variant)

^^As you can see from the above link, most Muslim-majority countries around the World will experience/undergo population decline (i.e. negative population growth) by the end of the 21st century, including major countries such as Iran, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

Plus, if we take the rise of atheism/irreligion into account, then we can conclude that the global Muslim population will decrease/shrink by the end of the 21st century.

Anyway, sorry for going off topic. I realize that you were talking about the Hajj season being something apolitical.

I agree with you. I don't think the Hajj should be politicized. The Khomeinists love to politicize almost everything, except when it comes to their precious Vilayat-e Faqih, which nobody should ever dare talk about lol.

I doubt the men from that Balochi village in Iran were all executed for drug-related crimes, by the way. They most likely got accused of crimes they didn't commit. The courts in Iran are kangaroo courts. If the mullahs want you dead, they'll sentence you to death no matter what. And then they have the nerve to criticize Saudi Arabia and other countries. They should fix their stinking system first. Once they become a Scandinavian country (in the words of Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed lol), then they can freely criticize the other countries of the region.

 

[Bilad al-Haramayn]

I went a little bit off topic, in fairness to you. Sorry about that. >_< I knew what your intention was, by the way, but I couldn't help myself lol. I had the urge to talk about future demographics.

Actually, the fertility rates in most Muslim-majority countries today are almost similar to those of First World countries:

The fertility gap between the Muslim-majority countries and the non-Muslim-majority countries is getting narrower.

As for the latest UN medium variant projections, you can find them in this link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...on_(United_Nations,_medium_fertility_variant)

^^As you can see from the above link, most Muslim-majority countries around the World will experience/undergo population decline (i.e. negative population growth) by the end of the 21st century, including major countries such as Iran, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

Plus, if we take the rise of atheism/irreligion into account, then we can conclude that the global Muslim population will decrease/shrink by the end of the 21st century.

Anyway, sorry for going off topic. I realize that you were talking about the Hajj season being something apolitical.

I agree with you. I don't think the Hajj should be politicized. The Khomeinists love to politicize almost everything, except when it comes to their precious Vilayat-e Faqih, which nobody should ever dare talk about lol.

I doubt the men from that Balochi village in Iran were all executed for drug-related crimes, by the way. They most likely got accused of crimes they didn't commit. The courts in Iran are kangaroo courts. If the mullahs want you dead, they'll sentence you to death no matter what. And then they have the nerves to criticize Saudi Arabia and other countries. They should fix their stinking system first. Once they become a Scandinavian country (in the words of Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed lol), then they can freely criticize the other countries of the region.

No need to apologize. I like reading informative posts.

That's good news if true because I highly doubt that our planet can sustain the current population growth let alone a continuous one. Although future technology might change that very quickly so it won't even become an issue. Who knows?

No regimes in the region should be pointing figures at anyone. It's just pathetic when you think about it. It's as if Belarus was pointing figures at the average European country. Nobody would take them seriously but not even the last European dictatorship engages in such silly rhetoric for all I know. However the countries of our region and many Muslim countries love to do that like if they had nothing better to focus on! A truly sad state of affairs. However it could be worse. I mean it's not quite as bad as in North Korea or Zimbabwe, YET.

 

[Madali]

Finally some good news.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Saudi Cabinet Blames Iran for not Sending Pilgrims

Asharq Al-Awsat English34 mins ago 6

Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques Chairs Cabinet Session (SPA)

The Saudi Cabinet reiterated on Monday that Iran was responsible for preventing its citizens from taking part in Hajj this year.

A statement issued by the official Saudi Press Agency said the Cabinet renewed Riyadh’s confirmation about “its duties and responsibilities towards the service of the guests of the Grand Holy Mosque.”

The Cabinet said Saudi Arabia “welcomes and is honored in serving pilgrims, Umrah performers and visitors of all nationalities and it does not prevent any Muslim from coming to the holy lands.”

The statement said “the decision to prevent Iranian citizens from coming to perform Hajj rites was due to Iranian officials who will be responsible in front of Allah Almighty and the entire world.”

It stressed that Riyadh rejects “Iranian attempts to put obstacles to prevent the arrival of Iranian pilgrims,” saying Tehran aims to “politicize Hajj rites and exploit them” to harm Saudi Arabia.

The Cabinet session was chaired by The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud.

Last Thursday, Saudi Arabia’s Hajj Ministry said the kingdom ensured Iranian officials obtained visas to meet with Saudi officials in April to discuss arrangements for this year’s Hajj.

The ministry said that Iranian officials made demands that all visas for Iranian pilgrims be issued from inside Iran; that the transport of pilgrims be divided between Iranian and Saudi air carriers; and that a clause be included in the record to allow Iranian pilgrims to hold a Shi’ite ritual during the Hajj.

But Saudi Arabia said it made clear to the Iranian delegation that Iranians can obtain hajj visas by applying online in the absence of a Saudi Embassy in Tehran; that allowing Iran’s national carrier to transport pilgrims runs contrary to “internationally recognized practice;” and that allowing this ritual would “hinder movements” of other pilgrims from around the world.

The ministry added that any decision to bar Iranian pilgrims from the Hajj is being “imposed by the Iranian government … as a means to pressure Saudi Arabia.”

Also Monday, King Salman “briefed the Cabinet on the message received from the King of Bahrain, the telephone call received from the President of Republic of Turkey, and the results of his meetings with the United States Secretary of State and the Commander of United States Central Command,” said SPA.
http://english.aawsat.com/2016/05/article55350925/saudi-cabinet-blames-iran-not-sending-pilgrims

 

[BLACKEAGLE]