Iran Imports AK-103 Rifles from Russia [??]

[Ibrahim2006]

Iran Gen Dehqan:rejection of S400&S300VM as replacement S300,AK-103 Rifle self sufficiency

 

[Fafnir]

Iran Gen Dehqan:rejection of S400&S300VM as replacement S300,AK-103 Rifle self sufficiency

Did they seriously turn down an offer of the s400?,are they fu#king mad?!

 

[Rukarl]

Did they seriously turn down an offer of the s400?,are they fu#king mad?!

Clearly they know their own systems and decided it would be "mad" to spend billions on a system that would offer them nothing that is worth that money. Much better to spend that money on own systems now.

 

[Fafnir]

Clearly they know their own systems and decided it would be "mad" to spend billions on a system that would offer them nothing that is worth that money. Much better to spend that money on own systems now.

Iran had no problem still going ahead with the s300 deal despite bavar 373 so obviously money had nothing to do with it,also they evidently have no problems spending money on kalshnikovs despite having at least two iranian assault rifle programs,so so much for spending money on their own systems.My point is this if iran was offered the s400 to settle the lawsuit/s300 deal then it was the height of stupidity for iran to stubbornly insist on the s300 if only because the s400 is by a wide margin the most advanced air defence sam system in the world today bar none period.Nationalism is all well and good but dont let it blind you to reality.

 

[Rukarl]

Iran had no problem still going ahead with the s300 deal despite bavar 373 so obviously money had nothing to do with it,also they evidently have no problems spending money on kalshnikovs despite having at least two iranian assault rifle programs,so so much for spending money own their own systems.My point is this if iran was offered the s400 to settle the lawsuit/s300 deal then it was the height of stupidity for iran to stubbornly insist on the s300 if only because the s400 is by a wide margin the most advanced air defence sam system in the world today bar none period.Nationalism is all well and good but dont let it blind you to reality.

Once again, they know alot more than you or me about their needs. They upgraded initial PMU1 deal to PMU2 if they decided the s-400 would not have been worth the extra money and wait, then they are in much better position than some layman on an internet forum to decide. What does nationalism have to do with this? what? Now they said they no longer need s-400, and I have explained that in my previous post.

 

[MTN1917]

Our military is conscript based, and in case of a full war we will have Basij volunteers added to its ranks, weapons like Fateh and Fajr are more complex than AKs and requires much more training and maintenance, so it makes perfect sense for Iran to use a simple weapon like AK-103 as its service rifle, there are plenty of ammo for AK103 in Iran, there also exists infrastructure for mass production of AK103(500,000 per year according to minister of defense).

Projects like Fateh and Fajr are also progressing, but these weapons(like Iran's M16s) will only be used by special operations and professional military units in Army and IRGC.

To give you a mindset of Iranian military personnel, I give you my own personal experience below:

I remember our instructor in military training describing AK as a perfect weapon for our military, he named AK as a non-professional weapon that can be upgraded to a semi professional assault rifle with accessories like optics and etc.

 

[Fafnir]

Once again, they know alot more than you or me about their needs. They upgraded initial PMU1 deal to PMU2 if they decided the s-400 would not have been worth the extra money and wait, then they are in much better position than some layman on an internet forum to decide. What does nationalism have to do with this? what? Now they said they no longer need s-400, and I have explained that in my previous post.

The fact that they would turn down one of the best systems they could get in favor of an inferior one while at the same time spending money buying something they should be capable of easily producing themselves causes me to question whether they do actually know a lot more

Our military is conscript based, and in case of a full war we will have Basij volunteers added to its ranks, weapons like Fateh and Fajr are more complex than AKs and requires much more training and maintenance, so it makes perfect sense for Iran to use a simple weapon like AK-103 as its service rifle, there are plenty of ammo for AK103 in Iran, there also exists infrastructure for mass production of AK103(500,000 per year according to minister of defense).

Projects like Fateh and Fajr are also progressing, but these weapons(like Iran's M16s) will only be used by special operations and professional military units in Army and IRGC.

To give you a mindset of Iranian military personnel, I give you my own personal experience below:

I remember our instructor in military training describing AK as a perfect weapon for our military, he named AK as a non-professional weapon that can be upgraded to a semi professional assault rifle with accessories like optics and etc.

In that case why even bother having one assault rifle program let alone two?,it makes absolutely no economic or military sense,also if iran can produce ak`s itself why is it buying ak`s from russia?,again this makes no economic sense

 

[Rukarl]

The fact that they would turn down one of the best systems they could get in favor of an inferior one while at the same time spending money buying something they should be capable of easily producing themselves causes me to question whether they do actually know a lot more

I've honestly lost count now as to how many times I addressed this same question.
They needed a system until bavar was ready and when they voided the court case they needed to take delivery of a system in return so they decided to go for the modernized PMU2, s-400 would have been much more expensive and taken much longer to be delivered.

 

[The SC]

The Russian offer of the S-400 to Iran came one day before the ceremonial reveling of the Bavar-373 a few days ago, and to accept it means Iran has to wait inline for at least 4 years, since there are many countries who have ordered it and still waiting!The S-300 PMU2+ delivery will be complete in one month time..
Bavar-373 has anti-ballistic missile capabilities like the S-400..

 

[Samak]

Then wouldnt it make more sense to spend it on big ticket items that iran badly needs like tanks,ifv,spgs,fighters and passenger jets rather than penny anty stuff that iran should be easily capable of producing itself?

Well, they are paying the money and they are the one who make conditions ....

Iran had no problem still going ahead with the s300 deal despite bavar 373 so obviously money had nothing to do with it,also they evidently have no problems spending money on kalshnikovs despite having at least two iranian assault rifle programs,so so much for spending money on their own systems.My point is this if iran was offered the s400 to settle the lawsuit/s300 deal then it was the height of stupidity for iran to stubbornly insist on the s300 if only because the s400 is by a wide margin the most advanced air defence sam system in the world today bar none period.Nationalism is all well and good but dont let it blind you to reality.

Well , production line of s400 is full till 2022 , and we are facing immediate threats , that why we choose S300 that was ready for delivery

 

[Fafnir]

The Russian offer of the S-400 to Iran came one day before the ceremonial reveiling of the Bavar-373 a few days ago, and to accept it means Iran has to wait inline for at least 4 years, since there are many countries who have ordered it and still waiting!The S-300 PMU2+ delivery will be complete in one month time..
Bavar-373 has antiballistic missile capabilities like the S-400..

We dont know that at all,in fact we dont know how good its capabilities are abm or otherwise,all we have seen is a single tel with only 2 missile containers mounted,a fire control radar and a search radar and that is it period!,whether it is as good as a patriot or an hq9 or an s300 pmu1 or pmu2 is literally anyones guess at this point.
What was so desperate that iran had to have the pmu2 immediately?,with the signing of the nuclear deal the threat of any us aggression had receded at least for the medium term so why not wait and get the best system that was available

 

[The SC]

We dont know that at all,in fact we dont know how good its capabilities are abm or otherwise,all we have seen is a single tel with only 2 missile containers mounted,a fire control radar and a search radar and that is it period!,whether it is as good as a patriot or an hq9 or an s300 pmu1 or pmu2 is literally anyones guess at this point.
What was so desperate that iran had to have the pmu2 immediately?,with the signing of the nuclear deal the threat of any us aggression had receded at least for the medium term so why not wait and get the best system that was available

Well, I guess the Iranians know better..
The prime minister/president Rouhani has issued an order for a test on a ballistic missile, on the same day or a day after the ceremony..
Iran was not so desperate as it seems to get the S-300 PMU2+, I would have been much happier with a 4 billion $ penalty to Russia if it was not delivered..
Actually it is president Putin who has given the order for the delivery of the long due system with much improvements as a compensation for the lost time.. so where do you see Iran desperation?

 

[Rukarl]

We dont know that at all,in fact we dont know how good its capabilities are abm or otherwise,all we have seen is a single tel with only 2 missile containers mounted,a fire control radar and a search radar and that is it period!,whether it is as good as a patriot or an hq9 or an s300 pmu1 or pmu2 is literally anyones guess at this point.
What was so desperate that iran had to have the pmu2 immediately?,with the signing of the nuclear deal the threat of any us aggression had receded at least for the medium term so why not wait and get the best system that was available

It seems no matter how clear we try to make this situation for you, there is insistence that you only repeat the same thing. I can't make things any more simpler than I already have, no point wasting any more time.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Our military is conscript based, and in case of a full war we will have Basij volunteers added to its ranks, weapons like Fateh and Fajr are more complex than AKs and requires much more training and maintenance, so it makes perfect sense for Iran to use a simple weapon like AK-103 as its service rifle, there are plenty of ammo for AK103 in Iran, there also exists infrastructure for mass production of AK103(500,000 per year according to minister of defense).

Projects like Fateh and Fajr are also progressing, but these weapons(like Iran's M16s) will only be used by special operations and professional military units in Army and IRGC.

To give you a mindset of Iranian military personnel, I give you my own personal experience below:

I remember our instructor in military training describing AK as a perfect weapon for our military, he named AK as a non-professional weapon that can be upgraded to a semi professional assault rifle with accessories like optics and etc.

I still don't think extra training and maintenance are any reason for equipping the army with AKs.

Iran's conscription period is 21 months, soon to be increased to 24 months, and only 3 months of that is training. Exactly how much more training would a Fateh or Fajr take? A week? Maybe 2? Yeah, that's not really an excuse IMHO. Same case for maintenance.

The only real excuse is cost, but we don't know how much the Fateh/Fajr rifles cost.

 

[Fafnir]

Well, I guess the Iranians know better..
The prime minister/president Rouhani has issued an order for a test on a ballistic missile, on the same day or a day after the ceremony..
Iran was not so desperate as it seems to get the S-300 PMU2+, I would have been much happier with a 4 billion $ penalty to Russia if it was not delivered..
Actually it is president Putin who has given the order for the delivery of the long due system with much improvements as a compensation for the lost time.. so where do you see Iran desperation?

Then why didnt iran simply wait and get the superior s400 in a few years rather than get the less capable s300pmu2 now whats the rush?

It seems no matter how clear we try to make this situation for you, there is insistence that you only repeat the same thing. I can't make things any more simpler than I already have, no point wasting any more time.

All I said was that bavar is still an unknown quantity we have no way of knowing just how well it compares to the s300 or any other sam for that matter,if that offends your nationalism that really isnt my problem