Iran before Khomeini

[VFY]

Between Pakistan and Iran who is more modern and advanced?

Why don't you compare the GDP and literacy rates for both countries?

 

[vi-va]

Then you're confused about the terminology perhaps. The Cold War was from 1962 to 1970s, starting from the Cuban missile crisis in 1962 and ending with the Nixon-Brezhnev period in 1970s. The fall of the Soviet Union was in 1991 (in fact, it started in 1989 and led to dissolution of the Soviet Union finally) and has nothing to do with the Cold War.

And Khomeini was against the Soviets. That's why the Soviet Union supported Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war.

Grand Ayatollah Khomeini has a not west, not east philosophy. This is well known.

Grand Ayatollah Khomeini is a wise man, he knew Russian Empire and Soviet history. Just take ww2 for example, Soviet took Iran territory, it's the west pressure Soviet to concede.

Grand Ayatollah Khomeini knew very well that Iran need to leverage the tension between Soviet and West. But the west pressured Iran too much.

I remembered that Grand Ayatollah Khomeini wrote a letter to Gorbachev before Soviet collapse that, the west liberal ideology is not the medicine to cure Soviet disease, but Gorbachev ignored it.

I feel many Chinese understood Iran better, and I don't think it's coincident. I guess because both were old civilizations, and both suffered a lot in recent 200 years.

 

[vi-va]

I'm not sure if you're seeing the same page as me on Wikipedia. This is the very first paragraph:

The Cold War (1962–1979) refers to the phase within the Cold War that spanned the period between the aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis in late October 1962, through the détente period beginning in 1969, to the end of détente in the late 1970s.

You don't know anything about world history. Do you? I'm not surprised. Your posts are generally are of low quality from what I have seen so far.

The dissolution of the Soviet Union had little to do with the Cold War. It was rather a decision made by the Soviet leadership after a chain of events that were mostly due to mismanagement and incompetency.

It is ridiculous that your title is Analyst while your critical thinking is quite childish and basic. Just because the US and the Saudis supported Iraq does not imply that the Soviets could not support Iraq. It's perhaps the most basic critical thinking skill to understand what implies what and what doesn't necessarily imply what. In fact, the Soviets were the biggest sponsor of Iraq during the war. Iraqi weapons were mostly Soviet made and Iraqi soldiers also constantly received training by the Soviets.
Go fact yourself, kid. Learn to think and use your head before you open your mouth and say somebody doesn't know the history of his own country. Maybe your title on PDF wouldn't seem ridiculously misplaced then.

The biggest myth US made is, the west believe it's the so-called liberal democracy dismantled Soviet.
Fukuyama wrote a book "The End of History and the Last Man" make them high.

Now Russia is back, China is backing to her historical place, Iran is also coming back to her historical place. What can US do?

None of the Russia, Iran, and China followed US ideology. But it's exactly because all the 3 countries insisted their own ideology and way of development made them stronger and stronger.

US tried very hard to overthrow Iran, but desperately failed.

US tried on Iraq, Vietnam, Korea peninsula, Afghanistan, Ukraine, South China Sea, Taiwan, Libya, Yemen.
All failed.

 

[Song Hong]

The Chinese and Iran elite class are fully vigilant on the subversion tactics of the west. The elite class of USSR during Gobachev time already sink into depravity. They are looting the state well before USSR collapse. The collapse of USSR was welcome because it legitimized the loot and overnight, the party boss become CEO of SOE.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Iran was a sham prior to 1979 (I'm not saying it's more accurate now)

But a few videos of Tehran elites in skirts dosent represent the millions of Iranians across the country, it never did and it's why the backlash and Iranian revolution hit


The problem is the mullah regime is just as unrepresentative of the entire population and thus Iranians have division

There is a happy middle that Iranians need to find, same goes for all of us

don't knew I have photos from other cities and I say they were pretty much more without hijab in cities and more with hejab in urban and villages.
by the way skirt is iran traditional cloth for women ad even now in tribal area and villages many wear it .now if you are talking about miniskirts I wonder if you really can call them skirt?

 

[jamahir]

I sense Iran has close relationship with USSR, while the rest of Muslim countries are with The West since communist with its economic system is not compatible with Islamic system that still uses market system and allow entrepreneurship to florist, not mentioning Communism is close to Atheism.

1. Quite a few Muslim-majority countries and movements were aligned with the USSR and Communism : Nasser's Egypt, Libya, Syria, Algeria, Somalia, the PLO etc. And you know that the PKI ( the Communist Party of Indonesia ) during its existence until its 1965-66 genocide, was the largest non-governing Communist movement in the world with two million members !

2. Among all the older religions it is Islam that comes closest to modern Communism. I quote from my thread from 2016 whose OP is an article by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha and is about Socialist and Communist activism among Muslims since the early 1900s.:

During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.

Building upon the initial thoughts of Sindhi and Sihwarwl were perhaps South Asia’s two most ardent and articulate supporters and theoreticians of Islamic Socilaism: Ghulam Ahmed Parvez and Dr. Khalifa Abdul Hakim.

Parvez was a prominent ‘Quranist’, or an Islamic scholar who insisted that for the Muslims to make progress in the modern world, Islamic thought and laws should be entirely based on the modern interpretations of the Qu’ran and on the complete rejection of the hadith (sayings of the Prophet and his companions based on hearsay and compiled over a 100 years after the Prophet’s demise).

After studying traditional Muslim texts, as well as Sufism, Parvez claimed that almost all hadiths were fabrications by those who wanted Islam to seem like an intolerant faith and by ancient Muslim kings who used these hadiths to give divine legitimacy to their tyrannical rules.

Parvez also insisted that Muslims should spend more time studying the modern sciences instead of wasting their energies on fighting out ancient sectarian conflicts or ignoring the true egalitarian and enlightening spirit of the Qu’ran by indulging in multiple rituals handed down to them by ancient ulema, clerics and compilers of the hadith.

Understandably, Parvez was right away attacked by conservative Islamic scholars and political outfits.

But this didn’t stop famous Muslim philosopher and poet, Muhammad Iqbal, to befriend the young scholar and then introduce him to the future founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Jinnah appointed Parvez to edit a magazine, Talu-e-Islam. It was set-up to propagate the creation of a separate Muslim country and to also answer the attacks that Jinnah’s All India Muslim League had begun to face from conservative Islamic parties and ulema who accused the League of being a pseudo-Muslim organisation and Jinnah for being too westernised and ‘lacking correct Islamic behavior.’

Apart from continuing to author books and commentaries on the Qu’ran, Parvez wrote a series of articles in Talu-e-Islam that propagated a more socialistic view of the holy book.

In a series of essays for the magazine he used verses from the Qu’ran, incidents from the faith’s history and insights from the writings of Muhammad Iqbal to claim:

The clergy and conservative ulema have hijacked Islam.

They are agents of the rich people and promoters of uncontrolled Capitalism.

Socialism best enforces Qur’anic dictums on property, justice and distribution of wealth.

Islam’s main mission was the eradication of all injustices and cruelties from society. It was a socio-economic movement, and the Prophet was a leader seeking to put an end to the capitalist exploitation of the Quraysh merchants and the corrupt bureaucracy of Byzantium and Persia.

According to the Qur’an, Muslims have three main responsibilities: seeing, hearing and sensing through the agency of the mind. Consequently, real knowledge is based on empirically verifiable observation, or through the role of science.

Poverty is the punishment of God and deserved by those who ignore science.

In Muslim/Islamic societies, science, as well as agrarian reform should play leading roles in developing an industrialised economy.

A socialist path is a correction of the medieval distortion of Islam through Shari’a.

Even @jamahir as communist fans also has Atheist tendency

Well, I will have to find another label to describe that aspect of my beliefs. I don't so much as disbelieve in God as much as I believe in the supremacy of Nature because I think they are two separate things.

The Chinese and Iran elite class are fully vigilant on the subversion tactics of the west. The elite class of USSR during Gobachev time already sink into depravity. They are looting the state well before USSR collapse. The collapse of USSR was welcome because it legitimized the loot and overnight, the party boss become CEO of SOE.

The dissolution of the USSR was a tragedy. Imagine the technological progress of humanity if the USSR had remained. And imagine which countries would not have been regime-changed by NATO if the USSR had remained.

 

[Song Hong]

1. Quite a few countries and movements were aligned with the USSR and Communism : Nasser's Egypt, Libya, Syria, Algeria, Somalia, the PLO etc. And you know that the PKI ( the Communist Party of Indonesia ) during its existence until its 1965-66 genocide, was the largest non-governing Communist movement in the world with two million members !

2. Among all the older religions it is Islam that comes closest to modern Communism. I quote from my thread from 2016 whose OP is an article by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha and is about Socialist and Communist activism among Muslims since the early 1900s.:





Well, I will have to find another label to describe that aspect of my beliefs. I don't so much as disbelieve in God as much as I believe in the supremacy of Nature because I think they are two separate things.



The dissolution of the USSR was a tragedy. Imagine the technological progress of humanity if the USSR had remained. And imagine which countries would not have been regime-changed by NATO if the USSR had remained.

US would not have move into LGBT, recreational drugs and fundamental capitalism on such scale if USSR is around to check her.

 

[jamahir]

US would not have move into LGBT, recreational drugs and fundamental capitalism on such scale if USSR is around to check her.

Well, I have nothing against gays and lesbians as long as they keep it decent, to themselves and non-criminal. But yes, Americans too are making fun of this US Army ad which you may know :

 

[Azadkashmir]

I woudnt judge a country by its infrastructure you ca be like dubai while having a starving population or you can have below average buildings but population is well fed and taken care of.

 

[mike2000 is back]

The Chinese and Iran elite class are fully vigilant on the subversion tactics of the west. The elite class of USSR during Gobachev time already sink into depravity. They are looting the state well before USSR collapse. The collapse of USSR was welcome because it legitimized the loot and overnight, the party boss become CEO of SOE.

It's actually a good thing for you guys that soviet Union collapsed. The Soviet Union turned out to be your worse enemy after sino-soviet split. . They even threatened to nuke you guys during your disputes and border clashes which at one point threatened an all out war between you guys. In fact it was actually soviet enmity and isolation which pushed you guys to ally with the US/WEST against the soviet Union (since the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Lol ) during this tumultuous years. We all worked together as countries/allies to being down the soviet Union, and it helped removed overnight the biggest/closest threat to China.

This again shows that there are no permanent enemies or friends in geo politics, only permanent interests. So you guys should stop this black and white stuff. Its all about interests. No country is a Saint or holy

 

[Imran Khan]

mullahs can destroy even paradise let alone iran

 

[Comrade bhartiya]

Lol, Ok, In Muslim world, only those countries progressing seriously, which are less religious or secular, Turkey, Malaysia, UAE. Ignore Erdogan era. On Other side even Saudi has oil and earn too much from Hajj, Umra, still progress is not impressing as it is wasting too much resources on sectarian religious wars in Arab, Pakistan. Countries which are under influence of mullah like Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Saudi have less chance to become advance country..

Still, i will say Iran was good in Shah days, Pakistan was good before Zia, Afghanistan was good before Talib, If Mullah not Hijack Iran, it could become advance country, Yours mullah are too corrupt like other religious land lord, they are enjoying luxury life while public is poor.

Ok, if you think Iran is good now, stay with mullah, i wasted too much time, again no more reply from my side.. bye..

Iran was better during shah ?
Not , it wasn't .
It is sanctioned hence it can't progress any faster , their GDP is already 1 trillion USD
Their population is 8.4 crore , well they are massively rich
Contrast this with India , 127 crore population with 3 trillion GDP or Pakistan with 24 crore population with 270 billion GDP
An average Iranian is many times richer than average Indian or Pakistani

 

[dBSPL]

Regarding the macroeconomic indicators related to Iran, the IMF and (UN) World Bank paint a completely different picture. (Also, OECD has different equations) Which one should we refer to?

 

[Maula Jatt]

Iran was better during shah ?
Not , it wasn't .
It is sanctioned hence it can't progress any faster , their GDP is already 1 trillion USD
Their population is 8.4 crore , well they are massively rich
Contrast this with India , 127 crore population with 3 trillion GDP or Pakistan with 24 crore population with 270 billion GDP
An average Iranian is many times richer than average Indian or Pakistani
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I love your posting style bro, I like using memes too
It adds flavor