Iran acquiring technology to manufacture Siemens F-Class gas turbines

[Daneshmand]

German industrial group Siemens (SIEGn.DE) signed an energy agreement with Iranian power and infrastructure group Mapna, it said on Wednesday, extending its early re-entry into the country after the lifting of sanctions.

Siemens was the first major German company to agree a deal with Iran this year, signing a memorandum of understanding to work on Iran's rail infrastructure worth up to 1.5 billion euros ($1.6 billion) in early January.

Mapna will acquire the technology to manufacture Siemens F-class gas turbines in Iran and the two parties will cooperate to deliver more than 20 gas turbines and associated generators over the next decade.

"With these important agreements we reinstall the long-term energy partnership between Mapna and Siemens," said Siemens Chief Executive Joe Kaeser, who witnessed the signing during a visit of Iranian Energy Minister Hamid Chitchian in Berlin.

Kaeser visited Iran last week and said Siemens wanted to pick up where it left off in Iran, where it had been present since 1868 but stopped doing new business in 2010.

As a first project under the energy deal, Siemens will deliver two F-class gas turbines and generators for a power plant in the southern port of Bandar Abbas, with the first unit due to be shipped shortly.

Siemens also signed a memorandum of understanding to jointly develop a roadmap with Mapna to expand and improve Iran's overall power and electricity system.

Siemens signs energy deals with Iran's Mapna Group| Reuters

 

[Daneshmand]

Considering the fact that F-Class is just one notch below Siemens state of the art H-class, this is a very good deal, as the deal transfers the technology of F-Class into Iran.

F-Class has a combined cycle efficiency reaching almost 59%, while H-Class has a combined cycle efficiency of 60%.

Even the Mitsubishi's J-Class which is considered to be the world leader in gas turbines, has an efficiency of just about 63%.

Iran should hoard as much technology as it can get its hands on. Left and right. Up and down.

Times can change and Iran must be prepared regardless, either way. Opportunities must be taken advantage of. Who knows what tomorrow might bring or not. Today must be utilized to get the technologies needed by the nation.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Considering the fact that F-Class is just one notch below Siemens state of the art H-class, this is a very good deal, as the deal transfers the technology of F-Class into Iran.

F-Class has a combined cycle efficiency reaching almost 59%, while H-Class has a combined cycle efficiency of 60%.

Even the Mitsubishi's J-Class which is considered to be the world leader in gas turbines, has an efficiency of just about 63%.

Iran should hoard as much technology as it can get its hands on. Left and right. Up and down.

Times can change and Iran must be prepared regardless, either way. Opportunities must be taken advantage of. Who knows what tomorrow might bring or not. Today must be utilized to get the technologies needed by the nation.

How would a TOT for the F class improve Iran's knowledge of jet engines? As I understand, jet engines and gas turbines follow very similar principles.

 

[Chevil]

How would a TOT for the F class improve Iran's knowledge of jet engines? As I understand, jet engines and gas turbines follow very similar principles.

Its more about specify alloys , now we should see if Simense is going to transfer of making these alloys to Iran or simply just export these alloys to be shaped and assembled in our country ....

These tech and design of gas engines and jet engines are close by its look like jet engines need more specialized alloys ....

 

[haman10]

Siemens . such a bad memory .....

don't forget the past incident of Stuxnet .

Good deal as long as we don't trust these people with the basics .

 

[Chevil]

Siemens . such a bad memory .....
don't forget the past incident of Stuxnet .
Good deal as long as we don't trust these people with the basics .

unfortunately , most of our countrymen have fish memory ...

 

[HAIDER]

 

[Daneshmand]

How would a TOT for the F class improve Iran's knowledge of jet engines? As I understand, jet engines and gas turbines follow very similar principles.

Same principles but how much it can be of help, I would not know.

Siemens . such a bad memory .....

don't forget the past incident of Stuxnet .

Good deal as long as we don't trust these people with the basics .

We do not have any other option. Doctor jon, agar khodemon mitonestim chizi tarahi konim ya ekhtera konim bazam omidi bood. Vali aslan az in khabara nist va ma bayad harchi mitonim teknology vared konim makhsosan alan keh yeh dari beh takhteh khordeh.

Kesi Iran ro majbor nakardeh bood keh az module-hai logic Siemens dar barnameh hasteish estefadeh koneh. Khodeh Siemens ham in ejazaro nadadeh bood. Vali vaghti keh khodemon tavanai tolid processor nadarim va hamantor keh @raptor22 goft aslan sotoh bala mokhalefan ba inkeh Iran micro-processor tolid koneh, maloomeh bayad az Simenes estefadeh konim. Siemens na, yeh ki digeh mesleh Mitsubishi. Hich kodomeshon ham amn nistan chonkeh ghodrat elmi va teknology amrika beh ghadri balast keh nemitonan amn bashan. badesh ma hala biaim begim Siemens badeh?

Khob khodemon keh nemitonim hata D-Class 1960 ham tarahi konim, cheh bereseh beh in keh masalan yeh Class no ekhtera konim. Az ki begirim? Az Roos? Az Chin? Az Japon? Az Amrika? Az Faranse? Chonkeh haminan. Kesi digei royeh in koreh khaki vojod nadareh.

 

[xenon54 out]

In German News they are talking about Siemens delivering 20 Gas Turbines with licence agreement, nothing about ToT.

Siemens liefert Gasturbinen nach Iran - SPIEGEL ONLINE

 

[Daneshmand]

In German News they are talking about Siemens delivering 20 Gas Turbines with licence agreement, nothing about ToT.

Siemens liefert Gasturbinen nach Iran - SPIEGEL ONLINE

The license is a ToT for F-Class: Siemens signs contracts with MAPNA Group of Iran

Mapna is not a new company. It was already producing other gas turbines under license from Siemens. The company was modeled after Siemens in 1990's and before sanctions. They have experience in this regard. This new ToT license will just up their technological level.

 

[xenon54 out]

The license is a ToT for F-Class: Siemens signs contracts with MAPNA Group of Iran

Mapna is not a new company. It was already producing other gas turbines under license from Siemens. They have experience in this regard. This new ToT license will just up their technological level.

The German news is also writing about the same deal but nothing about ToT, just licence agreement.

Your Source:

Then, as a first project under the license agreement, both companies signed a contract for the Bandar Abbas power plant for which Siemens will deliver two F-class gas turbines and generators. The first unit will be shipped to Iran shortly.

Its not the same as ToT.

 

[raptor22]

Same principles but how much it can be of help, I would not know.



We do not have any other option. Doctor jon, agar khodemon mitonestim chizi tarahi konim ya ekhtera konim bazam omidi bood. Vali aslan az in khabara nist va ma bayad harchi mitonim teknology vared konim makhsosan alan keh yeh dari beh takhteh khordeh.

Kesi Iran ro majbor nakardeh bood keh az module-hai logic Siemens dar barnameh hasteish estefadeh koneh. Khodeh Siemens ham in ejazaro nadadeh bood. Vali vaghti keh khodemon tavanai tolid processor nadarim va hamantor keh @raptor22 goft aslan sotoh bala mokhalefan ba inkeh Iran micro-processor tolid koneh, maloomeh bayad az Simenes estefadeh konim. Siemens na, yeh ki digeh mesleh Mitsubishi. Hich kodomeshon ham amn nistan chonkeh ghodrat elmi va teknology amrika beh ghadri balast keh nemitonan amn bashan. badesh ma hala biaim begim Siemens badeh?

Khob khodemon keh nemitonim hata D-Class 1960 ham tarahi konim, cheh bereseh beh in keh masalan yeh Class no ekhtera konim. Az ki begirim? Az Roos? Az Chin? Az Japon? Az Amrika? Az Faranse? Chonkeh haminan. Kesi digei royeh in koreh khaki vojod nadareh.

Actually I visited the thread due to its interesting title this morning and the first thing that popped into my mind was this Q : "Does Mapna group has any type of R&D? " but I dropped it at once until you brought it up again ... honestly I prefer to shut my eyes to these types of news as far as knowing this fact that having these technologies transferred is a good thing and a step forward but gonna get us no where as a distant mirage unless we learn how to think .... I mean look at our industry albeit we've had a good progress in many fields , many of these technologies date back decades ago and still we need help from outside ... best example is our automobile industry what the heck are they doing? anyway what has changed since then? in the past we were importing goods and now technology ..its a level higher but same concept ..we still import ...

 

[Daneshmand]

The German news is also writing about the same deal but nothing about ToT, just licence agreement.

Then you should email them and ask what is this "license agreement"?

 

[xenon54 out]

Then you should email them and ask what is this "license agreement"?

Its simple, you can built the Turbines under licence of Siemens, you could reverse engineer it though but that would violate the agreement since reverse engineering would probably violate several patents of Siemens.

For exsample Turkey is building F-16 under licence since decades but still doesnt have the technology for fighter jets, its not that simple to get technology, even if you are ready to pay billions over billions.

 

[Daneshmand]

Actually I visited the thread due to its interesting title this morning and the first thing that popped into my mind was this Q : "Does Mapna group has any type of R&D? " but I dropped it at once until you brought it up again ... honestly I prefer to shut my eyes to these types of news as far as knowing this fact that having these technologies transferred is a good thing and a step forward but gonna get us no where as a distant mirage unless we learn how to think .... I mean look at our industry albeit we've had a good progress in many fields , many of these technologies date back decades ago and still we need help from outside ... best example is our automobile industry what the heck are they doing? anyway what has changed since then? in the past we were importing goods and now technology ..its a level higher but same concept ..we still import ...

You are right. That is a long topic which I have discussed to death with other members here, and you must have seen. To reach where you wish for, we must completely trust science, believe in it and love it. The love for science is lacking.

Its simple, you can built the Turbines under licence of Siemens, you could reverse engineer it though but that would violate the agreement since reverse engineering would probably violate several patents of Siemens.

For exsample Turkey is building F-16 under licece since decades but still doesnt have the technology for fighter jets, its not that simple to get technology, even if you are ready to pay billions over billions.

Iran is not Turkey.

When Iran was put under sanctions, Iran did not care for "agreement". It used the technologies it had bought from Siemens previously, to manufacture turbines without asking for "permission".

Iran is an independent country that respects others and their agreements as long as they respect Iran.

And the F-16 are assembled in Turkey. Manufacturing components from raw materials is something else. Technology cycle means, starting from minerals and simple raw materials and work your way up to a finished product.