Inside Hanoi's gated communities: elite enclaves where even the air is cleaner

[tsinga]

When I see this kind of badmouthing press in Western media, the false superiority complex in the article and bitterly jealous and deep hatred comments from these British readers, I know that Vietnam is going in the right way. Almost exactly what I have been reading in last 20 years about China.

When they see development, they will talk about "rising inequality". When they see people getting richer, they will talk about "beggars on the street". When they see someone badmouthing the government, they will talk about "coming revolution". As if the Western societies are in perfect balance.

The false superiority complex from Western media reminds me of the Communist Bloc media 20-30 years ago.

So true. We face this exact same criticism from Western press as well. They would love to keep us all poor.

Keep doing what you are doing

 

[Aepsilons]

I like Da Nang, Can Tho, Nha Trang better

Upon looking at some pictures of Da Nang, Can Tho and Nha Trang, wow! You're right !

Da Nang:

This place i want to visit ! The city of Nha Trang! Wow...look at the beaches!!

 

[Zhang Fan]

Upon looking at some pictures of Da Nang, Can Tho and Nha Trang, wow! You're right !

Da Nang:

I gotta admit a vietnamese city can grow to be so reminiscent of a chinese southern one even if that process is totally involuntary all by itself

 

[William Hung]

Upon looking at some pictures of Da Nang, Can Tho and Nha Trang, wow! You're right !

Da Nang:

You need to be there to know it. Da Nang and Can Tho may not have many big modern high risers like in Hanoi or Saigon, but if you get a chance to drive around in all four cities, you will see that the city planners from Da Nang and Can Tho know what they are doing and the city planners from Saigon and Hanoi seem to be totally lost, if you observe the basics like new road layouts, etc.

 

[Indos]

Yes, he is ! Born as Tjie Tjin Hoan, he is known in Indonesia as Ciputra.

Despite that, there is always a help given by Soeharto family that make his business like Today. In the old time he partnered with Sudono Salim (an ethnic Chinese that grow his business by using Soeharto help) and Ms Tien (Soeharto wife) brother.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

I'm very realistic. Vietnam is capable of anything. Just limited by Advance manufacturing tools and Education.

China is capable of building an interstellar empire. Just limited by lack of starships and storm troopers.

 

[Aepsilons]

I gotta admit a vietnamese city can grow to be so reminiscent of a chinese southern one even if that process is totally involuntary all by itself

Well, you need to look at Vietnam's Spatial Planning Policie(s), which actually similar to Japan's and China's (PRC, not ROC).

In 2013, the Law on Construction was enacted which included Chapter II on Construction Planning.

According to Article 13, Law on Construction 2013, Construction Planning consists of 4 kinds of planning as the following:

• 1Regional Construction Planning;
• 2.Urban Planning (defined by Law on Urban Planning 2009);
• 3.Special Functional Zone Planning; and
• 4.Rural Planning.

In Section 2, Chapter II of Law on Construction 2013, Regional Planning is planned for the following areas:

• 1.Region of Joint/Multi Provinces (1st level of administration);
• 2.Region of Province;
• 3.Region of Joint/Multi prefectures (2nd level of administration);
• 4.Region of Prefectures;
• 5.Region of Special Functional Areas; and
• 6.Region of Highway Corridor, Economic Corridor of Joint/Multi Provinces.

In Section 3, Chapter II of Law on Construction 2013, Special Functional Zone Planning is planned for the following zones:

• 1.Zones of Economy;
• 2.Zones of Industry areas, Export Processing Zones, High-tech areas;
• 3.Zones of Ecology, tourism;
• 4.Zones of Conservation areas, Historical-cultural areas;
• 5.Zones of Research - training areas and sport areas;
• 6.Zones of Airport or Seaport;
• 7.Zones of Core Infrastructural Nodes; and
• 8.Others mandated by Regional Planning or approved by Authority.

In Section 4, Chapter II of Law on Construction 2013, Rural Planning is planned for counties (not wards or townships) or nodes of small population.

According to Article 18 of the Law on Urban Planning, there are 3 types of urban planning as follows:

• 1.General Planning, which is made for centrally-controlled cities, prefecture-level cities, towns, townships and new urban centers;
• 2.Zoning Planning, which is made for areas within cities, towns and new urban centers; and
• 3.Detailed Planning, which is made for the areas to meet urban development and management requirements or construction investment needs.

The details of the spatial plans under the purview of the Ministry of Construction are conceived through four administrative mechanisms: the Master Plan Orientation for Viet Nam's Urban System Development (national plan), the regional plans, (Ministry of Construction / provinces), the master plans (cities / provinces), and detailed plans (districts, wards, industry zones, or development projects). Generally speaking, Vietnamese planning is prescriptive in character, laying out specific ways to use land in specific locations, unlike the rather regulative nature of Western land use planning.

Ministry of Construction is now scheduling to review the Law on Urban Planning to match with new regulations of Law on Construction 2013.

In April 7, 2009 the Prime Minister approved the Adjustment Master Plan Orientation for Viet Nam's Urban System Development to 2025 with a Vision to 2050, which was the Decision No.445/QÐ-TTg with the orientation of general development and figures as the following:

From now to 2015, the key economic regions and large urban areas are put high priority on and the comprehensive economic zones play the role as a dominant growth pole at national level; from 2015 to 2025, the development of basic urbanized area is put priority on to reduce the local and dispersed development; in the period from 2026 to 2050 the urban network will be generally implemented.

---

Figure:Master Plan Orientation for Vietnam Urban system development

Economic Zones
Currently, Vietnam economic zones are defined by spatial regional plans provided by Ministry of Construction and approved by the government. It comprises 9 zones:

• (1)Hanoi Capital Region including Hanoi, Thai Nguyen, Phu Tho, Bac Giang, Vinh Phuc, Hung yen, Bac Binh, Hai Duong, Ha Nam and Hoa Binh
• (2)Northern Coast:　Quang Ninh, Hai Phong, Thai Binh, Nam Dinh and Ninh Binh
• (3)Northen Midland and Mountainous: Ha Giang, Cao Bang, Lao Cai, Bac Kan, Kang Son, Tuyen Quang, Yen Bai, Lai Chau Dien Bien, Son La
• (4)North Central Coast: Thanh Hoa, Nghe An, Ha Tinh, Quang Binh, Quang Tri, Thua Thien Hue
• (5)Central Highlands:Kon Tum, Gia Lai, Dak Lak, Dak Nong, Lam Dong
• (6)Central Southern Coast: Phu Yen, Khanh Hoa, Ninh Thuan, Binh Thuan,
• (7)Key Central Economic Zone: Da Nang, Quang Nam, Quang Ngai, Binh Dinh
• (8)Ho Chi Minh City Region: HCMC, Binh Duong, Binh Phuoc, Tay Ninh, Long An, Dong Nai, Ba Ria- Vung Tau, Tien Giang
• (9)Mekong River Delta: An Giang, Ben Tre, Bac Lieu, Ca Mau, Can Tho, Dong Thao, Hau Giang, Kien Giang, Long An, Soc Trang, Tien Giang, Tra Vinh, Vinh Long

FOR EXAMPLE:

HCMC metropolitan regional planning
Source: Southern Sub-Institute of Urban and Regional Planning, Ministry of Construction, Vietnam


http://www.mlit.go.jp/kokudokeikaku/international/spw/general/vietnam/index_e.html

Anyways, here is to Vietnamese Growth !!!!!!!!!

 

[Viva_Viet]

My friend, i think VN needs to look at Indonesia's development as a role model. They (Indonesian) are already constructing their first HSR ! The Malaysians and Thais are on their way too. What about the great Viet Nam?

Time to choose, soon. Time to catch up with Indonesia, yes? What you think?

Thanks,but thats not the way we go. TPP is the way we must go while ID is not TPP member.

 

[Jlaw]

Why did any Western media say something about it?
It looks just like an ordinary community.

It's a place for elites but this type of cookie cutter setup houses are common in the west where most people can afford it. This type of housing also look very similar to the newer Zhongshan constructions.

Nevertheless, still pretty neat looking

Well you should not deny your nation and people's cultural relations to Greater East Asia. In fact much of traditional Viet Nam History (even post-Sino subjegation) was heavily influenced by succeeding Chinese culture (imperial court doctrine, taxation regimes, military organization, military technology). In fact one of the reason why your nation was able to demolish much inferior trained and equipped regional rivals such as the Chams, the Khmers and the Siamese (to an extent) was because Dai Viet states implemented Chinese-style warfare. The use of heavy bowmen, cavalry, and heavy infantry decimated the poorly-armored Siamese, Khmers, Chams (who went to war practically unarmored besides some wooden shields and their traditional spears / and or swords). Vietnamese employed to devastation effect Chinese inventiosn such as the 諸葛弩 (chu ke nu) , which annihilated entire Cham columns. Hence Champa's total extermination by the Viets. In fact the style of warfare your early Trung and Nguyen Lords were similar to that of China's Qin Shi Huang-Di -- who implemented a policy of National Solidarity and extermination of the great threat of Zhu. To an extent, Viet Nam did the same with Champa --- totally exterminating Champa from existence.

For instance one of the greatest Generals in ancient Vietnamese history is Ngô Vương Ngô Quyền. And he is depicted traditionally wearing classic Southern Han armor and regalia.

In fact he is even Deified in some Vietnamese circles. His elevation from a General-Lord to Divine protector of Vietnam has an uncanny resemblance to the deification of Chinese General-Lord Guan Yu [ 關羽 ]

Very unique, but very similar, too.

Guan Yu was a real life Shui-Han general . Not sure if the Vietnamese version Lord To is a real person or made up.

 

[nufix]

Well both your languages (Vietnamese and Bahasa Indonesia) use the Latin script. You Vietnamese had replaced your Hanzi-based character system with Latin characters (used by the French). The Indonesians had also replaced their Javanese script (based on and influenced by Sansrkit) for the Latin alphabet (used by both the Portuguese and Dutch; both of whom had ruled what is now mostly-present day Indonesia).

Second, both of you are post-colonial states. And were birthed into existence after the ashes of the 2nd World War and after your (Vietnamese and Indonesian) Wars of Independence the old European Imperial Powers (French for Vietnam and Dutch for what is now present day Indonesia). The theme of local resistance to imperial aggression and requisition to tap into local power is a revolving and evolving theme, my friend.

My point? Well -- Viet Nam and Indonesia need not contest or find animosity in each other since both are very similar than they are different. In fact both of you are ancient trading partners that had coexisted for centuries even before the arrival of the French and Portuguese (then later the Dutch).



Some 2 centuries ago, my friend, your ancestors wrote fluently in Han tu (the Vietic expression of Han zi):

And the Indonesians wrote in something similar to the Batak script:

I am surprised that you still spare your time trying to reason with Vietnamese, you even tried so hard not to insult vtnsx's logic. I admire your diplomatical skills bro.

 

[Cao Đài]

You need to be there to know it. Da Nang and Can Tho may not have many big modern high risers like in Hanoi or Saigon, but if you get a chance to drive around in all four cities, you will see that the city planners from Da Nang and Can Tho know what they are doing and the city planners from Saigon and Hanoi seem to be totally lost, if you observe the basics like new road layouts, etc.

Many new zone in HN and HCM are build by FDI, and they decide where they want to build it like in the case of Phu My Hung. But i agree with you though

 

[Cao Đài]

When I see this kind of badmouthing press in Western media, the false superiority complex in the article and bitterly jealous and deep hatred comments from these British readers, I know that Vietnam is going in the right way. Almost exactly what I have been reading in last 20 years about China.

When they see development, they will talk about "rising inequality". When they see people getting richer, they will talk about "beggars on the street". When they see someone badmouthing the government, they will talk about "coming revolution". As if the Western societies are in perfect balance.

The false superiority complex from Western media reminds me of the Communist Bloc media 20-30 years ago.

But it is the truth bro, while inequality gap in Vietnam is not huge yet but it is rising. Govt need to look for investment in other province to solve too much migration to the city looking for job that create this messy chaos and overcrowded. They need to build more affordable housing and infrastructure too instead of all this fancy fancy building. Too much migration in the city create pressure to healthcare and education service also, can lead to poor quality delivered.
And they definitely must reform those stupid SOEs and make resource and credit available to private ones


Why you care about the comment section so much, it is not reflect opinion of many people in real life, many of them just ignorance that's all and knight is braver behind the wall. The guardian is quite the leftist online news.

 

[asia2000]

In the past Vietnamese did not discriminated Southern Chinese and Vietnamese. We both claimed ourselves as Yue 越 Viets people.

Really? Then how come the language is different? Cantonese is quite different from Vietnamese.

 

[Aepsilons]

Really? Then how come the language is different? Cantonese is quite different from Vietnamese.

Well if we apply logic , even Cantonese is foreign sounding to Mandarin, or to Manchu tongue. The point that i think he is getting is that some 2 thousand years ago, what is present day Viet Nam was considered part of Zhonghua , part of the Chinese southern provinces. In fact, the ethnic groups in China's southern province of Guangxi is not much different to Kinh (Vietic), and the ethnic groups that dominate Guangxi are very related to the Kinh (Vietic people). In fact the invention of Viet Nam is just a local digression and collapse of rule of central government to reign in a very rowdy and powerful sothern province (Dai Viet). The Viets are much similar to Chinese than any other of their neighbors (literally, racially, culturally, genetically). Anyways. I suppose the concept of Vietnamese national identity is unique to the Korean and Japanese identity -- which have always remained autonomous of Chinese domination -- tho culturally influenced. Vietnam is special in regards to the Chinese state psyche in that Vietnam was the rogue province that ultimately became "independent" and had resisted the central administration's ability to 'reunite' it with the core.

This is why Vietnam has a deep , close, yet unique relationship with China. She is of China, but yet separate of China. In the modern state sense she is independent, but culturally, historically and socially speaking -- they resemble a "little" China. Hence the French labeled them "CochinChina" , which means something around 'Southern China'.

 

[Viva_Viet]

Well if we apply logic , even Cantonese is foreign sounding to Mandarin, or to Manchu tongue. The point that i think he is getting is that some 2 thousand years ago, what is present day Viet Nam was considered part of Zhonghua , part of the Chinese southern provinces. In fact, the ethnic groups in China's southern province of Guangxi is not much different to Kinh (Vietic), and the ethnic groups that dominate Guangxi are very related to the Kinh (Vietic people). In fact the invention of Viet Nam is just a local digression and collapse of rule of central government to reign in a very rowdy and powerful sothern province (Dai Viet). The Viets are much similar to Chinese than any other of their neighbors (literally, racially, culturally, genetically). Anyways. I suppose the concept of Vietnamese national identity is unique to the Korean and Japanese identity -- which have always remained autonomous of Chinese domination -- tho culturally influenced. Vietnam is special in regards to the Chinese state psyche in that Vietnam was the rogue province that ultimately became "independent" and had resisted the central administration's ability to 'reunite' it with the core.

This is why Vietnam has a deep , close, yet unique relationship with China. She is of China, but yet separate of China. In the modern state sense she is independent, but culturally, historically and socially speaking -- they resemble a "little" China. Hence the French labeled them "CochinChina" , which means something around 'Southern China'.

In the past, we thought Cnese culture was the best, so we learned from them. When the French came, we saw that Wester style was much better, so we learned from French.

Now, most of young Vnese like Western style .

We simplt just wanna learn from the best things of the world, we dont care if its Cn or Western culture,bro