Initiative to buy 16 warplanes for Tk 25,000 crore

[bluesky]

It will be a disgrace to waste 3 billion on 16 fighter jets given the current state of BAF. BAF needs at least 4 squadrons of 4.5 gen fighters (+AEW&C) for bare minimum deterrence against India + Myanmar..
3 billion could fetch us 48 J-10Cs or 32 Gripens.

However, 4 asses are not equivalent to a single horse performance. EFT is highly superior to the J-10c of China and superior to Gripen. There are tens of airforces that use EFT including RAF and German airforce.

 

[magra]

We are very concerned about democracy.
LOL！

LOL LOL

 

[UKBengali]

As already mentioned by mb444, We have close relationship with UK and a large BD diaspora in UK. These factors are of strategic importance in the event of a conflict. A connection we don't have with Sweden.

You think UK would not take India's side against BD in case of conflict?

Here are some facts:

1. 3 senior cabinet ministers are of Indian heritage in the UK. The next UK Prime Minister could well be Rishi Sunak.
2. Indian companies are one of the largest foreign investors in the UK.
3. UK is seeking access to Indian economy which is 10 times as large as BD's.
4. 3 times as many Indians in the UK as BD'shis.


Much rather BD sources aircraft from Sweden that does not have much connection with either India or BD than buying from UK that can be influenced by Indians both at home and in India very easily.

And apart from engine, which requires one time clearance from USA at point of sale, the rest of the Gripen is all European and so after BD gets the Gripen the USA is completely out of the picture. Sweden even has a ready domestic AESA radar that can be put into Gripen very easily and so apart from missiles and engine, the rest of the aircraft is pretty much Swedish.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

LOL LOL

？

 

[bdslph]

if we get the EF then next 10 year we must pay up payment terms are not flexible like china ..
3billions USA is not a small money. per hour flight is also very expensive.
now again there is talk to buy new trainers we have too many trainer we should not have bought the yak130

aside from this it not the burma issue that we don't buy from china its an excuse only we have full relation ship with burma (double standards). since 90s our forces wants western items but god forbids if anything happen all our items are will be hit with sanction right away.

in Europe only i Trust Turkey ... not religion reason .. we should buy as much from them

china is the best reliable partners in military
(there is issue with china burma even EU and USA. no one innocent)

J10c is a must buy if not any Russian Air Craft to replace the F7 we have to buy the J10 c

in future after EF we cannot buy Russian or chinses SAMS we might get sanction like India and Turkey

 

[Destranator]

However, 4 asses are not equivalent to a single horse performance. EFT is highly superior to the J-10c of China and superior to Gripen. There are tens of airforces that use EFT including RAF and German airforce.

You didn't get my point. BAF needs to build its backbone first with affordable light/medium weight fighters that will ensure credible air defence before procuring offensive platforms like EFT. BAF is currently putting the cart before the horse or carriages before the loco.
Nothing wrong with EFT itself. Read my other posts to understand where I am coming from.

 

[magra]

？

Its LOL worthy to hear a Chinese saying that he is concerned about democracy

 

[alphapak]

For 3 billion BAF will probably get 12 Eurofighters unless if they go for
some 2nd hand ones.

The Royal Air Force has an availability rate of about 60%, if BAF can match
that then they will have 7-8 Eurofighters available during a war.

I wonder what is the per flight cost of the Eurofighter?

 

[SBUS-CXK]

Its LOL worthy to hear a Chinese saying that he is concerned about democracy

Ah LOL, just like I'm happy to see that you don't lack electricity.

 

[bluesky]

You didn't get my point. BAF needs to build its backbone first with affordable light/medium weight fighters that will ensure credible air defence before procuring offensive platforms like EFT. BAF is currently putting the cart before the horse or carriages before the loco.
Nothing wrong with EFT itself. Read my other posts to understand where I am coming from.

BAF is not a new airforce and it already has more than 100 planes, fighters, trainers, or transport planes. So, it is no more necessary to buy only large numbers. It is time it buys highly sophisticated planes that expands the quality of BAF and enhances the image of the country.

Eurofighter Typhoon will not be the last purchase. Given time, we can expect EFT or other fighter planes to be also bought in the future. All kinds of planes are needed in an airforce.

 

[mb444]

Just because Gripen uses an American GE engine does not mean they are off limits. You actually have to go through the motions to try gaining US Congressional green light to know whether there would block the sales in any way. GE is a very influential American defence contractor with Congressmen in their pockets.
Countries like Thailand and South Africa are not exactly close allies of the US yet they operate the Gripens.

Look, EFT is a fantastic platform on its own but it needs to be backed up by numbers. My main concern is numbers.
Going for Hi without sorting Lo is a mistake, here's why:

The way our bureaucracy works: if takes a lot of pen pushing to get big deals through the chain. Once BAF ties up the bureaucracy with repayments for EFTs for years, the PMO, defence, finance and planning ministries will push back hard against any further deals for fighter jets in the next 10 years. The pen pushers will find ways to convince the PM to not approve any further fighter deals as defence spending is never their priority. Unlike BA and BN, BAF does not have the stomach fight it out.

1-2 squadrons of EFT is fantastic as a cherry on top if you already have 3-4 squadrons of Gripens/J-10s in service. It would be a nightmare for any air force to face EFTs conducting strike backed up by dozens of network connected Gripens/J-10s.

Again, I just hope a miracle happens and the EFT deal id quickly followed by orders for single engine fighters in good numbers.

I agree you need quantity to back up quality but you need quality more than quatity.

Air defense is now all about BVR and perception of your jets lethality. No point having a jet in the air that can not even engage the enemy because the only thing it will see are the missile coming at it. That is our scenario. We can not engage the IAF.

Grippen can not check raffle as although it can integrate meteor its radar range is less. Only thing that can check raffle is EFT that we can afford. If BAF can complete the deal they take a significant step to secure BD airspace and gives BN and BA opetational options. In my opinion EFT is better than Grippen or F16s by a country mile and will dominate the raffle in defense of our airspace.

Secondly its about perception, BAF can already monitor air traffic beyond our border to all of the IAF bases from which they can undertake an attack against us without the need of refuelling. EFT range and its weapons range brings all of these bases and refuellers within range. EFT completely equalises the capacity differentials between IAF and BAF.

Offcourse I am not suggesting somehow 16 EFT can beat the IAF. In an all out conflict over time BAF assets will be eliminated. However they are a game changer in that it will bring BAF into the game, at the moment they can not mount any defense at all. EFT will give IAF pause particularly in view of its poor standards, tactics and doctrine as proven by how it fared against PAF couple of years ago.

 

[mb444]

You think UK would not take India's side against BD in case of conflict?

Here are some facts:

1. 3 senior cabinet ministers are of Indian heritage in the UK. The next UK Prime Minister could well be Rishi Sunak.
2. Indian companies are one of the largest foreign investors in the UK.
3. UK is seeking access to Indian economy which is 10 times as large as BD's.
4. 3 times as many Indians in the UK as BD'shis.


Much rather BD sources aircraft from Sweden that does not have much connection with either India or BD than buying from UK that can be influenced by Indians both at home and in India very easily.

And apart from engine, which requires one time clearance from USA at point of sale, the rest of the Gripen is all European and so after BD gets the Gripen the USA is completely out of the picture. Sweden even has a ready domestic AESA radar that can be put into Gripen very easily and so apart from missiles and engine, the rest of the aircraft is pretty much Swedish.

But dude missiles and engine are the primary component of a jet...

GB wont instinctively take indias side irrespective of how many indians are in the cabinet or economic engagement. GBs position would be to engage and diffuse any potential conflict.

Is a conflict between BD and india likely.... absolutely not. BD is western focussed, a democracy although a flawed one similar to india and democracies do not go to war.

I disagree with you that Grippen brings anything to the table that equlises the qualitative imbalance between BAF and IAF. Grippen exists to give the Swedish nation a fighting chance against a russian invasion. If we faced IAF composed of russian jets then I would agree with you. But now we face raffle and grippen can not compete and EFT can.

Indians know this and if they could they would oppose this purchase.

 

[UKBengali]

Grippen can not check raffle as although it can integrate meteor its radar range is less. Only thing that can check raffle is EFT that we can afford. If BAF can complete the deal they take a significant step to secure BD airspace and gives BN and BA opetational options. In my opinion EFT is better than Grippen or F16s by a country mile and will dominate the raffle in defense of our airspace.

Where did you get this info from?

AESA radar on Gripen E can direct missiles at the maximum effective range of the Meteor no problems. Anyway Gripens can be fully networked with the Swedish Global Eye awacs.

GB wont instinctively take indias side irrespective of how many indians are in the cabinet or economic engagement. GBs position would be to engage and diffuse any potential conflict.

Would you trust the UK to not lean towards India with Sunak as PM?
I would not.
Brexit UK is tilting away from EU and India is another large market that UK is interested in.

Again why would Indian care about 16 EFTs when they have 36 Rafales and are likely to purchase 36 more?

Western gear is for Myanmar and China is the supplier of choice for India. No idea when people got the idea that a small number of Western jets will be any deterrence against India from.

You want to really take care of India and get real deterrence till 2050-2060? Buy 2-3 dozens of J-35s when they are ready towards the latter part of this decade with Chinese domestic engine.

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

tactics and doctrine as proven by how it fared against PAF couple of years ago.

indeed , there is no alternative to training. Hope the RAF gives us the training IF we get the EFT. Training of maintenance crew is just as important than the pilot training. 16 EFT can deter MyAF from doing anything stupid.
One possible problem with EFT procurement is the BVR missiles, Meteor is very expensive and will be procured in small numbers. Yes the EFT can mount AMRAAM but its unlikely to be in our inventory because of US policy.

 

[mb444]

You didn't get my point. BAF needs to build its backbone first with affordable light/medium weight fighters that will ensure credible air defence before procuring offensive platforms like EFT. BAF is currently putting the cart before the horse or carriages before the loco.
Nothing wrong with EFT itself. Read my other posts to understand where I am coming from.

In the BVR age you need to be able to see your enemy before they see you and launch your missiles before they can.

Technical parity is all that matters and will deter a conflict from taking place. I would value 16 EFTs more that all the assets in BAF inventory twice over because our enemies would only be concerned about the EFT.