Information Pool & Analysis on Pakistan's AF Aspiration for Su-35 / Su-35S - FLANKER-E

[Dazzler]

SU-37 was nothing but a tech demonstrator for thrust vectoring and other technologies, the SU-35 is the real deal and the S variant is the most advanced export fighter the country has on offer. My only concern is maintenance, its too heavy and expensive which may result in less sortie generation.

Unless inducted in good numbers, there is no point in getting these huge and expensive birds apart from projection of power.

 

[GORKHALI]

I hardly venture out of IDF thread but still this kind of threads always make me wonder.
'Does Pakistan really stupid to believe this kinda news articles'? Russia is a Russia,it will see where the majority of its deal coming from.Even without any deal with India ,they still earn close 2-3 billion$ Y-O-Y sales with replaceable parts and ammunition for existing systems.
Why would they go for a few hundred million $ deals ?? Ukraine suffered the same fate,now Indian MOD ignores their partnership call for armored vehicles and tank upgraded ,AN-32 upgrade is different ball game.

 

[The Eagle]

What else do you expect the neighbors to do?? Ignore the thread?? Last i checked this was a defense forum to discuss, no??

No, but the way discussion is carried-on and parroting which is not related to the topic in hand.

 

[zebra7]

Great!! You know why stop at 189 Rafales. Buy 300. Nothing would please us more. The thing is your beaurocrats are fortunately or unfortunately for us a lot smarter than you. This is all I will say on the matter.
A

Was it Scarcism remark brother.

Taunts are bad and not healthy for conversation, hope you may refrain from this.

I think you are right here and regret for the same

WE ARE STILL ON THE MAP DESPITE ALL THOSE FAILED ATTEMPTS

Now attitude is wrong. Nobody is trying to distroy your country and remove from the map. Its high time the pakistani should realized it, and move forward in the future.

Thanks for the details of those super weapons that India posses though rest of the paragraphs are nothing to me but a special case to have a headache but the interesting thing is, the unwarranted explanations.

Now this is wrong Sir.

You first claim, that India is shifting toward U.S, obvisously making deals and so called Love affair with the U.S weapons, and also claim that Russia is moving away from India. I gave those examples and case to case weapons which were purchased from the U.S, because they were not available with the Russia, that fulfill our requirement. Taking it into negative side would make the headache, but if read it in the correct way, will make the correct sense.

 

[_NOBODY_]

SU-37 was nothing but a tech demonstrator for thrust vectoring and other technologies, the SU-35 is the real deal and the S variant is the most advanced export fighter the country has on offer. My only concern is maintenance, its too heavy and expensive which may result in less sortie generation.

Unless inducted in good numbers, there is no point in getting these huge and expensive birds apart from projection of power.

I have the exact same concern with this fighter. The fact is that we do require a 4++ generation fighter which can fill the gap between our current fighters and 5th generation fighters and this fighter must provide us the capabilities which the current fighters are unable to offer.
I see Typhoon and Su-35 as the only option. If only we can get enough soft loans from China and Arabs then Typhoon is possible.
What do you think?

 

[The Eagle]

Now attitude is wrong. Nobody is trying to distroy your country and remove from the map. Its high time the pakistani should realized it, and move forward in the future.

It was actually for the world though we have been with the opinion since 1947 that "No power on earth can undo Pakistan".

You first claim, that India is shifting toward U.S, obvisously making deals and so called Love affair with the U.S weapons, and also claim that Russia is moving away from India. I gave those examples and case to case weapons which were purchased from the U.S, because they were not available with the Russia, that fulfill our requirement. Taking it into negative side would make the headache, but if read it in the correct way, will make the correct sense

Why would I take it to Negative Side, not my type at all dear.

Rest about the shift, it is up-to extent of geopolitics shift and new formation in the region. Indeed US weapon in India's inventory are not against Russia but china and Pakistan though the growing level of US-India friendship, India's prominent tilt towards US that too starting the LEMOA and etc in future, are real concerns of Russia and I am sure, Modi is in knowledge of the same since LEMOA. Just take it in the positive side and think about what is my own opinion. Indeed such pact and etc in future are raising concerns to many of regional countries, those are not in good book of US and you know what I mean, that will help us in many aspects but at the moment, we are like watching it closely. Everyone is like waiting for opportunity and avail it.

 

[zebra7]

US that too starting the LEMOA and etc in future, are real concerns of Russia and I am sure

Sir, just answer to the point and with facts

1. Give any link, where Russia expresses its concern over the LEMOA Deal.

2. Why didn't India joined Warsaw Pact, during Cold war, if it was in the Soviet Camp.

3. Does India is seeking the weapon/equipment as the Aid or Hard Cash.

4. What does this Phrase means "Individuals are entitled to their own opinions, not to their own facts."

 

[The Eagle]

Give any link, where Russia expresses its concern over the LEMOA Deal.

You miss a line in my post stating that lets wait as sometimes mere actions are enough than words or statements. The started to popup again about SU-35s and many other things that too reported by SPUTNIK so you can understand than asking every-time for a source for everything.

Does India is seeking the weapon/equipment as the Aid or Hard Cash.

US selling weapons is more than money and about diplomacy/influence that it carries with it. None said the shopping is with aid or hard cash. You can highlight the Money factor in-case of Russia etc but for US, it is more about her presence, influence and forming a frontier. What make you think that US is offering F-16s assembly line in India just for money.

What does this Phrase means "Individuals are entitled to their own opinions, not to their own facts."

I was and I am still standing with my opinion which is based upon my learning and observations but I don't know what forced you to quote me in first place since this thread. You are just trying to diversify and play with words here so it would be better not to got there that you are not interested at all, I mean with my opinion.

Why didn't India joined Warsaw Pact, during Cold war, if it was in the Soviet Camp.

Very simple to understand, if you want to, We never stand or opposed openly USA in-case of China but who knows.

 

[Salahuddin Ayubi]

For those who understand...

Pakistan has finally begun to learn a thing or two from Chinese friends especially with respect to keeping details of their financial and military strategies and plans close to their heart. No dhandoora peetna in advance.

 

[Great Sachin]

any result of negotiation ?

 

[zebra7]

You miss a line in my post stating that lets wait as sometimes mere actions are enough than words or statements. The started to popup again about SU-35s and many other things that too reported by SPUTNIK so you can understand than asking every-time for a source for everything.

Are you shifting the Topic LEMOA to Su-35.

When the USSR was designing & building the naval base for the IN at Vizag, at that time itself the Govt of India had agreed in writing to allow the Soviet Navy's intelligence gathering vessels disguised as fishing trawlers & operating in the Indian Ocean to have access to Vizag naval base for replenishment of perishables & crew-change & this continued all the way till 1991! In other words, Indioa had inked a LEMOA-type agreement with the USSR way back in the early 1980s itself. Furthermore, an exact copy of the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship & Cooperation inked on August 9, 1971 was also offered to the US for signature that same month by then foreign minister Sardar Swaran Singh, but the US had then declined. It's all now part of the record in M K Rasgotra's already published memoirs.

US selling weapons is more than money and about diplomacy/influence that it carries with it. None said the shopping is with aid or hard cash. You can highlight the Money factor in-case of Russia etc but for US, it is more about her presence, influence and forming a frontier. What make you think that US is offering F-16s assembly line in India just for money.

Correction, its the LM and the Boeing OEM which is offereing the assembly line, to take the advantage of the MAKE IN INDIA, in another word want to do, what Russians are doing with the SU 30 MKI, where India would supply the spares and Service facility to the customers of South Asian countries and African.

I was and I am still standing with my opinion which is based upon my learning and observations but I don't know what forced you to quote me in first place since this thread. You are just trying to diversify and play with words here so it would be better not to got there that you are not interested at all, I mean with my opinion.

This is because, your own Quote

India's prominent tilt towards US that too starting the LEMOA and etc in future, are real concerns of Russia and I am sure, Modi is in knowledge of the same since LEMOA.

Very simple to understand, if you want to, We never stand or opposed openly USA in-case of China but who knows.

In real world, there is no Russia or U.S, rather the OWN Strategic Interest.

BTW those Deals were necessory and also CISMOA/COMCASA is needed and do you know why, sorry I didn't tag you to my thread https://defence.pk/threads/fish-hook-sea-bed-sosus-network.448398/#post-8666902

 

[The Eagle]

Are you shifting the Topic LEMOA to Su-35.

That was to give you a hint or a simple reference about new relationship between Pakistan and Russia and yes furthermore, not to forget our Chinese friends role, even ifffff such mere reported news materialises. Everything is possible in politics and that applies in case of Indian purchases as well that are not suppose to bound Russia to sell to this and not to that. After all topic is SU-35 here.

When the USSR was designing & building the naval base for the IN at Vizag, at that time itself the Govt of India had agreed in writing to allow the Soviet Navy's intelligence gathering vessels disguised as fishing trawlers & operating in the Indian Ocean to have access to Vizag naval base for replenishment of perishables & crew-change & this continued all the way till 1991! In other words, Indioa had inked a LEMOA-type agreement with the USSR way back in the early 1980s itself. Furthermore, an exact copy of the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship & Cooperation inked on August 9, 1971 was also offered to the US for signature that same month by then foreign minister Sardar Swaran Singh, but the US had then declined. It's all now part of the record in M K Rasgotra's already published memoirs.

As I said, nothing is permanent in politics. You can understand by this again as Pakistan was helping US during cold war whereby India was in favour of Russia so now turn the table and switch the supporting party for US as India. Even Turkey and Russia are getting closer despite an effort of Downing Russian A/C and drum beating for Russia that Turkey is doomed etc but picture is different from yesterday. You offered the paper to sign, one did not because was not in her interest but now requirements are different hence new pact.

 

[Viper0011.]

Pakistan Air Force Chief of Staff had fruitful talks in Moscow in July on purchasing of Russian Su-35 fighter jets.

I've said it for over a year now. The SU-35 is coming to Pakistan. Its a matter of when, not if!

 

[zebra7]

As I said, nothing is permanent in politics. You can understand by this again as Pakistan was helping US during cold war whereby India was in favour of Russia so now turn the table and switch the supporting party for US as India. Even Turkey and Russia are getting closer despite an effort of Downing Russian A/C and drum beating for Russia that Turkey is doomed etc but picture is different from yesterday. You offered the paper to sign, one did not because was not in her interest but now requirements are different hence new pact.

Janab Masla ye hai ki Jab during Gulf War, U.S planes uses Indian bases to refuel, then what difference it is now with signing the deal officially. Where was Russia concern then.

Masla ye hai -- Why you thinking Russia tilting away from India, when atleast 40 Billion of Defense deal is still there namely FGFA, SUBS, Frigates, MIG-29 K, and Super Sukhoi.

Masla ye hai -- we have good relationship with everyone and could buy from anywhere from europe, us and Russia, but your choices are limited.

As far as SU-35 is concerned, I don't think it is going to come to Pakistan because :---

1) It niether fulfils Pakistani Doctorine, niether did PAF could effort it in number.

2) India is going for the Super Sukhoi upgrade, which will make each of its MKI at par with the SU-35.

3) China won't finance PAF for the Russian bird, and would wants its own product to be inducted by the PAF.

 

[The Eagle]

Correction, its the LM and the Boeing OEM which is offereing the assembly line, to take the advantage of the MAKE IN INDIA, in another word want to do,

You think any American company will do business against the national interest of US and Pentagon briefing. You are just following the virtual world with what media reported and you believed. US way of doing such type of business is way different than others and is more about keeping influence and make sure not to loose it.

I am feeling like to have a strong coffee.

In real world, there is no Russia or U.S, rather the OWN Strategic Interest

Exactly that is the point of any weapon deal between Pakistan and Russia which is possible, even I am waiting for any official words but cannot see it happening soon and would be based upon many factors including what is my opinion about India's tilt towards US.