Information Pool & Analysis on Pakistan's AF Aspiration for Su-35 / Su-35S - FLANKER-E

[Zibago]

wo to PAC me bn rhy hain

Do teen darjan hor china to manga lawaan gey

Eff sola tey lab nayi rahiye mehngayi dey dor wich changiyaan weley ee le lindey aan jiney asi lay sakdey

 

[Humble Analyst]

SU 35 is good plane, but I have doubts that it will ever fly in Pakistani color. Anyway, geopolitics can take strange turns, with India going after Rafales and F16s, Russia may sell SU 35s to Pakistan to get back at India. But again, there are many deal between India and Russia such as PAK FA, nuclear submarines, Brahmos etc.... Will Russia be willing to jeopardize those deals to get back at India for India going with Rafales and F16s etc...?

Can India take the chance to cancel the deals and risk the supply of all the spares from Russia?

 

[dadeechi]

To be honest, this is most ridiculous statement i have come across. I don't think you need to cancel your future deals to stop a deal which is non existent at the moment.
You have a big fleet of aircrafts depending for their spares and up gradation onto Russia.

Where did I say cancel the deals instead I said close the deals meaning complete negotiations and sign the deals...

 

[The Accountant]

Care to tell the Reason for going to SU which you people know India-Russia has strategic partnership? and Russia can provide easily the codes of radars / Jammers etc? and falling into trap?

Its albit, like India buying its planes from China in order to defend from PAK in the present scenario.

Everyone is aware about UK vs Argentina Falklands War and PAK do not have the same strategic level with Russia as India has.

I am talking about rationalization of decision, you people not even started talking .... and here champagne bottles already opened.


if u don't have info about E-warfare , then don't discuses it.

A) China has Su-27 and not Su-30
B) China is replacing with its own Radars etc. which is again Gen Behind then Russians.
C) S400, Russia can disable S-400 easily I case used against Russian Interest. that's why China trying to copying it day and night.
D) Russia is now moved to S-500 series... so S-400 is now discarded by Russia, FYI.

So Mr. I hope you got the answer how Codes are given to friendly countries in case of wars. Anything you have to say on that?

Are you really that stupid or are you pretening to be one ... China has 74 su 30 ... S500 is only conceptional .. World's one of the most advance sam is s400 ... Even india does not have it only operator is russia and china ...

Hahaha .. You made my day by making srupid claims ...

 

[Gregor Clegane]

https://defence.pk/threads/russia-t...no-signing-of-contracts-with-pakistan.449842/

 

[MastanKhan]

Don't over react on personal opinion of some random person on PDF.
No one here is official representative of Pakistan air force.

Exactly,
He want J10 instead of Jf17, M2K instead of F16, JH7 instead of Su35.
He like every thing which is not part of PAF.
He is right many times, but not always.

Hi,

I asked for the JH7B is because it is available without any restrictions---and then the " man behind the machines can do their magic "---with its long strike range---heavy weapons load---and an inexpensive price tag---would create a new set of problems for the opponent.

I asked for the M2K / Rafale is that it would lock in one of the 2 Tier 1 countries countries that produce a fighter / strike aircraft with all the weapons and EW suite needed---.

I asked for the J10's---B / C's---because they are of the similar category to the BLK 52 F16's---basically a Tier above the JF17's---.

The J10 is a better deal is because all the investments to upgrade it would be done by china---and Paf could just go along for the ride---and if they need to do any upgrades on their own---more power to them.

But leave the deal aside----Paf needs too many aircraft to be replaced---so at this stage---a J10 is needed in parallel to the procurement of the JF17's---.

 

[Alpha Fighter]

Are you really that stupid or are you pretening to be one ... China has 74 su 30 ... S500 is only conceptional .. World's one of the most advance sam is s400 ... Even india does not have it only operator is russia and china ...

Hahaha .. You made my day by making srupid claims ...

oh man where are you born, Just you fake history / GK and IQ knowledge

a) Oh Man :- Indian SU30MKI is made using Technology of SU-37 and thus called Air Superiority Fighter and This Russian also order the same plane for their own AF.
Nato Code :- Flanker -H

B) China operating SU-27 and order few 74, SU30 , SU30MKK/ 2 using same design principle from Su27, which has no Canards , main role is for marine time Duty.
Nato Code - Flanker - G

Check the Radars of both the SU, body frame you find hell lot of difference.

By Saying SU 30 , don't make both plane MKI and MKK a same plane.


S400 - has made up of multi radars with different ranges and missiles with different ranges and type of threat. Do you know which S400 china have?

S500 is build upon the S400 components used many S400 systems , S500 prototype is already deployed. Any new Technology developed in S500 will be passed on S400 system in Russia. Even they are S400 , their technology upgraded components will came from S500.

this is above how machines evolve... mere no do not make machine equals.

 

[war&peace]

The Su35 is a heavy fighter, PAF has historically avoided heavy fighters, due to it being a mainly defensive air force. It would be better for PAF to go for the typhoon instead.

No body is perfect, people do wrong stuff, people do mistakes. But

''Don't question Choice of others if you don't understand their reasons''

Its always easy to point finger of objection on some one else, but once you are in same boot you realise how tough it is.
For us its easy to throw stones at them saying random stuff based upon our ''knowledge'' of paper, but what real is going on is out of our approach.
Again I am saying, they may take many wrong decisions (deliberately or non deliberately) but they are also one which take best decisions.

Sir, I know they are competent pilots but I'm not so convinced about their skills on negotiations table. Sometimes a country has to swallow a bitter pill in terms of cost just to defend itself. I am pro-JF-17 and indigenous development since that is the best way forward in every aspect.
But what bugs my mind is PAF's constant insistence on being defensive.....that's defeated mindset, their constant avoidance of twin-engine heavy fighters and their obsession par excellence with F-16...really sickening..They have a job to defend this country and we want them to be better at it. Times have changed so have the air warfare and political situation but PAF seems to be stuck some where in 80s. They have got the nation humiliated quite a few times...when the sanctions were slapped on Pakistan...people knew it coming but PAF neither hurried nor made a plan B...in Kargil are their A/C were grounded...Kargil may be an ill-planned move for general Musharaf and it must be investigated but at that moment PAF had to support PA and be with other Pak armed forces... similarly, PN Atlantique was destroyed by India because it was not escorted by some PAF fighters and AM retired Asghar Khan's letter to IAF just before 1965 war.

 

[That Guy]

Its your opinion and issue of your sense which fail to comprehend the sensible part.
Other wise for PAF is does make sense and that is why we are working on it.
A twin engine long range air craft capable of delivering heavy payload is dire need for our Maritime and deep strike missions.

You say that, but it won't happen precisely because the PAF won't actually want it.

Sir the chances of getting typhoon is almost zero because of the number of countries involved in the project. Anyone of the countries involved can throw a spanner and deal is as good as dead. Besides if SU-35 is expensive how expensive would euro fighter be?
The cost of Eurofighter typhoon Tranche 3 is around 121.5 million flyaway and this is for the UK version, ours would probably be more while SU-35 costs somewhere between 45-65 million USD.
I got the figures for here:
https://defenseissues.wordpress.com/tag/eurofighter-typhoon-cost/

First, you're ignoring long tern costs, which put both at a similar cost range, as russians tend to make money on parts, and not the fighter itself.

Second, the Su35 will be even harder to get, due to Indian meddling. The Indians will spend billions, just to deny Pakistan spending millions.

I personly think Pakistan should save up and invest in a next Gen platform instead.

 

[Basel]

Care to tell the Reason for going to SU which you people know India-Russia has strategic partnership? and Russia can provide easily the codes of radars / Jammers etc? and falling into trap?

Its albit, like India buying its planes from China in order to defend from PAK in the present scenario.

Everyone is aware about UK vs Argentina Falklands War and PAK do not have the same strategic level with Russia as India has.

I am talking about rationalization of decision, you people not even started talking .... and here champagne bottles already opened.


if u don't have info about E-warfare , then don't discuses it.

A) China has Su-27 and not Su-30
B) China is replacing with its own Radars etc. which is again Gen Behind then Russians.
C) S400, Russia can disable S-400 easily I case used against Russian Interest. that's why China trying to copying it day and night.
D) Russia is now moved to S-500 series... so S-400 is now discarded by Russia, FYI.

So Mr. I hope you got the answer how Codes are given to friendly countries in case of wars. Anything you have to say on that?

For quoted bold part, China operates Su-27 & Su-30MKK.

 

[Alpha Fighter]

For quoted bold part, China operates Su-27 & Su-30MKK.

I know , but is the SU-30MKI and Su-30SD and SU-30MKK has the same airframe / design?

 

[Vapnope]

Where did I say cancel the deals instead I said close the deals meaning complete negotiations and sign the deals...

My mistake sir.

 

[Basel]

I know , but is the SU-30MKI and Su-30SD and SU-30MKK has the same airframe / design?

MKK & MKI are different, because canards were added for extra lift to MKI due to weight of nose, and MKI was most advance Su-30 when it was developed bcoz input of Israeli & French systems.

 

[Silicon0000]

Another Fan boy Thread .......

 

[Alpha Fighter]

MKK & MKI are different, because canards were added for extra lift to MKI due to weight of nose, and MKI was most advance Su-30 when it was developed bcoz input of Israeli & French systems.

not only Canards , because the design infused in Su30MKI is from SU 37 TD and MKK designed infused from SU-35 Design. Even SU-35MKK have more bigger body then SU30 MKI for extra fuel.

Many changes in Airframe.