Information Pool & Analysis on Pakistan's AF Aspiration for Su-35 / Su-35S - FLANKER-E

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

What are the chances that China will use their fleet of SU 35's for the security of Gwadar? And would Russia agree to Chinese Su 35's being leased to Pakistan?

I can't say to be honest. I think the Chinese have a higher incentive to deploy the Su-35 to the Pacific theater considering it is their primary security and strategic issue at the moment.

 

[ZainIndia]

why cant Pak go for F/A 18 instead of SU-35, it may be a bit cheaper?, may not be as capable in air to air combat.
Both are multirole fighers with the SU 35 only better maneuverable in close combat. Throw a few
Growlers in the mix and job done.
su 35 will take some time getting used to by PAF as it is a Russian system(limited prior experience)
The only real logical reason i can think of is US willingness to sell it.

 

[Shabi1]

why cant Pak go for F/A 18 instead of SU-35, it may be a bit cheaper?, may not be as capable in air to air combat.
Both are multirole fighers with the SU 35 only better maneuverable in close combat. Throw a few
Growlers in the mix and job done.
su 35 will take some time getting used to by PAF as it is a Russian system(limited prior experience)
The only real logical reason i can think of is US willingness to sell it.

Pakistan wants a non US high end aircraft, if it could buy American it would have bought F-16 Block-60/61s. There were several technology related conditions Pakistan had to meet when it bought the Block-52s to satisfy the Americans that China will not get access to them. Also since Pakistan usually got subsidies for purchases, arms sold to Pakistan were priced higher. Same happened with recent cancelled Block-52 deal, without FMF assistance they were ridiculously priced.

 

[nadeemkhan110]

Su-35. Photo credit: United Aircraft Corporation

Sep 8, 2016
RUSSIAN MEDIA REPORTS SUGGEST PAKISTANI INTEREST IN THE SU-35 IS GENUINE
Several recent news reports from Russian media outlets indicate that Pakistani interest in the Sukhoi Su-35 multi-role fighter is genuine.

The Pakistani officials quoted were present at Army 2016, an international military and technical forum devoted to showcase defence industry projects from within and outside of Russia.

Speaking to Sputnik News, the deputy director of the Defence Export Promotion Organization (DEPO) Qadir Khan said, “Pakistan is involved in negotiations with Russia on a deal for Su-35 and Su-37. We are in initial stage now.” (Note: The Su-37 is a demonstrator program and it is not available on the market).

Interestingly, the Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP)’s Directorate General of Defence Purchases (DGDP), which is responsible for managing the assessment and procurement of arms for the armed forces (from domestic and foreign sources), also sent a delegation to attend Army 2016.

The delegation was led by the Director General of DGDP – Major General Naveed Ahmed.

According to Sputnik News’ Spanish portal, Maj. Gen Ahmed responded to inquiries about the Su-35 by stating that the option was being considered. He reportedly added that Pakistan is waiting for Russia to open negotiations.

Maj. Gen Ahmed also expressed hope that an agreement regarding the RD-93 turbofan (for the JF-17) will also be finalized in the near-term. Pakistan had already secured Russia’s agreement to directly supply the RD-93, so it is unclear if the statement was made in reference to buying additional engines or in other areas, such as establishing a maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) facility for the RD-93 in Pakistan, which Pakistan had been seekingsince November 2015.

In another Sputnik News article, Maj. Gen Ahmed was quoted saying:

“Our army services are [showing] keen interest in different Russian products. We are looking for the air platform, for any sorts of helicopters; for the army, we are looking for tanks, we are looking for anti-tanks weapon system and more importantly we are looking for the air defense system.”

Notes, Comments & Analysis:

If accurate, Major General Ahmed’s statements would indicate that Pakistan is indeed interested in the Su-35. While there have been numerous reports about Pakistani interest in the fighter, this would be the first direct and verifiable statement from a Pakistani official regarding the issue.

This is significant as the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) itself has only set the JF-17, F-16 and next-generation fighter on its modernization roadmap. The Director General of DGDP’s statement would suggest that another fighter could potentially be added and that the Su-35 is an option.

Interestingly, Maj. Gen Ahmed also reportedly added that a proposal of some kind was made to Russia, noting that the step of initiating negotiations would be up to Moscow. While the PAF itself has not voiced intent for procuring a new fighter type, the fact that this information would come from the DGDP is appropriate as it is sanctioned to manage procurement and acquisition issues.

Whether Russia opts to entertain Pakistan’s interest in the Su-35 is another matter entirely. However, the truly important point at this stage is the possibility that the PAF is indeed seeking another fighter platform – i.e. another short or medium-term addition joining the JF-17 and F-16. The requirement does not emerge to cater to the platform; rather, the platform is sought to fulfill a requirement.

On this basis, it will be worth observing if the PAF will study other fighter options, especially considering the reality that the Su-35 is a twin-engine fighter with considerable payload and range.

In regards to Russia itself. It appears that Pakistan is at the stage where it can generally examine and pursue Russian arms. In other words, exceptional clauses or exemptions would not be required in order to clear sales to Islamabad. However, certain political and strategic issues, such as its ties with Delhi, will prompt Moscow to be careful in terms of what it approves for sale, which is why the notion of the Su-35 is still far from a sure bet for Pakistan.
Source:http://quwa.org/2016/09/08/russian-media-reports-suggest-pakistani-interest-su-35-genuine/

 

[The Eagle]

The game is complex however the object is very clear. The Chinese control 2trillion dollars in bonds from the US. They want the US to cede control of the South China Sea to them. They twist US balls by threatening to call on the debt and collapse the US financially. The US needs to preempt that. Far off war with China in its backyard will never be feasible. So it needs a proxy to irk and occupy the Chinese and maintain the pressure on them. The advance towards India and other nations in the far East is towards this end. The smaller nations have expressed their inability to venture into the open against the Chinese. That leaves India. However the Indians I think will play their game of procrastinating while milking the US for marketing and services. That is why Pakistan is in the calculus and I feel they won't let go of Pakistan either and in case of Indians not playing ball they will be courting the Pakistanis again to irk India.
Frankly I don't see this game working out well for the US in the long run. Sooner or later it will have to retreat and the reason is going to be purely financial. China just has to keep flexing their muscles enough for the US to remain engaged and wait for the burden of forces to further weaken the US deficit.
The US offer of 16s manufacturing is a desperate attempt to wow the Indians. If you see it in perspective, it is technology which is still pertinent to be juicy enough for the Indians, yet not juicy enough to compromise US interests. They don't care if the French get screwed in the bargain and frankly the French deserve it as well due to their arrogant behaviour. Whether the Indians take a bite at the bait is something that remains to be seen. How much the Indians can wriggle out of the US will remain a point of discussion for some time and it will be dependant on the desperation of the US to engage India. For the same investment the US MAY WELL provide much more than what the French are offering and the black. 70 will be a good replacement for the outdated TEJAS and try to get others to make sense of the whole project as a learning exercise. Key technological transfers may well happen which may make things juicy enough for the Indians to bite. So a game is a fresh. Let's watch and enjoy.
A

Pretty detailed observation and analysis, I do agree bro.

Tried sometimes in less words, to put it before many of around to make a sense for them. Indeed it is pretty complex and little add from side into this, India is of the view that can milk France and US through current strategy. In case of France, I still feel that India has played it's first card by Scorpene Leaks that resulted in some free upgrades as penalty and possible discounts in Rafale but on other hand, one day or another, French are going to realize this and I am sure, will be pretty much aware by soon. On other hand, US is offering F-16s production line etc just to make sure that India will be hell bent to do what master says as by providing a production line and other economic solution, then it is way easy by threatening of pulling out the assets, to make other do what the investor says.

It is true that US needs someone to face China and China is happy by the current development that dragging US and her Economics by such way. Furthermore, China deliberately not pulling out her bonds and knew that as soon as does it, US is going to collapse which initially wouldn't be feasible that world economic currency and market may collapse so if China has to done it someday, indeed the alternate dealing currency is taking place slowly. I am sure, this game, as we currently view, going to benefit us to the some extent as well as whoever is aggrieved with India, will definitely be closer to us and it is going to be long run because US wouldn't invest in India that much for short term. The signing of LEMOA and followed by couple of other pacts/agreements are indications of the same development. US has rightly extracted the thirst of India as her love for weapons, the fear of enemy and being weak or not to be called as low status, played a major rule by creating that and for US foot in India it was necessary to work these from ground and US did it well that today, India is all with US for countering of those above said fears.

Sitting Idle and watching the game, preparing for the worst and hoping for the best, is much better now a days. The few, thinks that Pakistan is totally getting away from US are not at the right theory and I must say, we will be continuing with US but on different level than before and I hope it would be more of a standard and equality basis instead the past, based upon new developments and rapid change in geopolitics and regional shape. Loosing a powerful ally, especially for the Muslim world and a major player in the region, is not feasible nor wished by US.

The french offers or anyone other than US are purely based upon business and money while US is fully buttering India not just for the economy but influence and a remote state at large. The major phase of this containing and cornering the China, as well as Russia, is answered, rebutted and countered on the day the CPEC came into being.

We, going for for SU-35, is not just about the bird but it would be a whole new development in diplomatic offices of both countries and we all know that Russia did not forget the Afghan scenes till today but as someone rightly said, nothing is permanent in International Politics and diplomacy so change is expected by any time. The recent example could be Turkey downing the Russian Bird but Russia did help Turkey prior to Coup and shared much information that resulted in both countries getting closer and progressing towards more closer diplomatic ties so could be the case for Pakistan as well especially the Chinese role in this regards and who knows. So I will be waiting for the day as soon as French-India Rafale deal is done and other major weapons procurement by India, we will be seeing a much different picture of Pakistan weapons induction and new plans for procurement in the same contexts. Why not to start EFT negotiations after all it is more into supporting the same strategy.

To be honest, that is really joyful for the one who can understand.

@waz @TaimiKhan @Oscar

The undermentioned thread may be merged here as being of similar subject and topic.

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...g-a-deal-on-russian-su-35-su-37.448335/page-2

Thanks.

 

[hussain0216]

Since Im the first to post i just wanted to express some thoughts on this matter

Its true our relations with the Russians are quickly improving
Its true we have a number of areas where our strategic interests have come together
We have China as additional supporter of our warming Russian relations
Its also true that India is searching far and wide for weapons, relations and has opened itself up to the USA etc

Now most likely Russia isnt happy about that

It is very likely that Pakistan-Russia has some deals going on engine overhaul for JF 17 engine, export if engine for jf 17 exports, maybe some other things like heli's or some missile deals


But I just feel any jet fighter talk is premature bluff



India-Russia has an upcoming meeting depending on what Russia wants from India and whether india will aqueous to Russian demands will determine whether these jet fighter talks between Pak-Russia will go futher


At the moment although Russia would desperately like the sale (they need it) its just a way of both countries to needle india

 

[Ultima Thule]

Su-35. Photo credit: United Aircraft Corporation

Sep 8, 2016
RUSSIAN MEDIA REPORTS SUGGEST PAKISTANI INTEREST IN THE SU-35 IS GENUINE
Several recent news reports from Russian media outlets indicate that Pakistani interest in the Sukhoi Su-35 multi-role fighter is genuine.

The Pakistani officials quoted were present at Army 2016, an international military and technical forum devoted to showcase defence industry projects from within and outside of Russia.

Speaking to Sputnik News, the deputy director of the Defence Export Promotion Organization (DEPO) Qadir Khan said, “Pakistan is involved in negotiations with Russia on a deal for Su-35 and Su-37. We are in initial stage now.” (Note: The Su-37 is a demonstrator program and it is not available on the market).

Interestingly, the Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP)’s Directorate General of Defence Purchases (DGDP), which is responsible for managing the assessment and procurement of arms for the armed forces (from domestic and foreign sources), also sent a delegation to attend Army 2016.

The delegation was led by the Director General of DGDP – Major General Naveed Ahmed.

According to Sputnik News’ Spanish portal, Maj. Gen Ahmed responded to inquiries about the Su-35 by stating that the option was being considered. He reportedly added that Pakistan is waiting for Russia to open negotiations.

Maj. Gen Ahmed also expressed hope that an agreement regarding the RD-93 turbofan (for the JF-17) will also be finalized in the near-term. Pakistan had already secured Russia’s agreement to directly supply the RD-93, so it is unclear if the statement was made in reference to buying additional engines or in other areas, such as establishing a maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) facility for the RD-93 in Pakistan, which Pakistan had been seekingsince November 2015.

In another Sputnik News article, Maj. Gen Ahmed was quoted saying:

“Our army services are [showing] keen interest in different Russian products. We are looking for the air platform, for any sorts of helicopters; for the army, we are looking for tanks, we are looking for anti-tanks weapon system and more importantly we are looking for the air defense system.”

Notes, Comments & Analysis:

If accurate, Major General Ahmed’s statements would indicate that Pakistan is indeed interested in the Su-35. While there have been numerous reports about Pakistani interest in the fighter, this would be the first direct and verifiable statement from a Pakistani official regarding the issue.

This is significant as the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) itself has only set the JF-17, F-16 and next-generation fighter on its modernization roadmap. The Director General of DGDP’s statement would suggest that another fighter could potentially be added and that the Su-35 is an option.

Interestingly, Maj. Gen Ahmed also reportedly added that a proposal of some kind was made to Russia, noting that the step of initiating negotiations would be up to Moscow. While the PAF itself has not voiced intent for procuring a new fighter type, the fact that this information would come from the DGDP is appropriate as it is sanctioned to manage procurement and acquisition issues.

Whether Russia opts to entertain Pakistan’s interest in the Su-35 is another matter entirely. However, the truly important point at this stage is the possibility that the PAF is indeed seeking another fighter platform – i.e. another short or medium-term addition joining the JF-17 and F-16. The requirement does not emerge to cater to the platform; rather, the platform is sought to fulfill a requirement.

On this basis, it will be worth observing if the PAF will study other fighter options, especially considering the reality that the Su-35 is a twin-engine fighter with considerable payload and range.

In regards to Russia itself. It appears that Pakistan is at the stage where it can generally examine and pursue Russian arms. In other words, exceptional clauses or exemptions would not be required in order to clear sales to Islamabad. However, certain political and strategic issues, such as its ties with Delhi, will prompt Moscow to be careful in terms of what it approves for sale, which is why the notion of the Su-35 is still far from a sure bet for Pakistan.
Source:http://quwa.org/2016/09/08/russian-media-reports-suggest-pakistani-interest-su-35-genuine/

bro why you guys repeating same thread again and again @waz , @Oscar their is so many similar threads on PDF please merge them

 

[surya kiran]

Pakistan also has genuine interest in the F-22, F-35, Los Angeles class submarine, akula submarine, Typhoon, S-500. Not to mention the always genuine interest in f sola.

 

[hussain0216]

Pakistan also has genuine interest in the F-22, F-35, Los Angeles class submarine, akula submarine, Typhoon, S-500. Not to mention the always genuine interest in f sola.

Sounds like your talking about india

 

[Knight Rider]

Pakistan also has genuine interest in the F-22, F-35.

Nop !!!! Pakistan Air Force has no interest in F-35 platform. And US F-22 Raptor is not for sale.

 

[TheNoob]

acha bhai bas.
Dil aesi hi bhar gaya he

 

[maximuswarrior]

Pakistan also has genuine interest in the F-22, F-35, Los Angeles class submarine, akula submarine, Typhoon, S-500. Not to mention the always genuine interest in f sola.

LOL Just like India has genuine interest in Rafale, but is unable to sign the deal.

You better get used to the idea that Pakistan is going to become a frequent Russian hardware buyer.

I like it how Indians get frustrated by these news reports. It is a very positive sign.

 

[nadeemkhan110]

SU-37

some weapons of SU-37

 

[TheNoob]

Guys, Guys!
There is no such thing as Su-37
it was a prototype.
The only thing that comes closer to an Su-37 is the Su-35S with the latest avionics.

 

[zebra7]

Su-35. Photo credit: United Aircraft Corporation

Sep 8, 2016
RUSSIAN MEDIA REPORTS SUGGEST PAKISTANI INTEREST IN THE SU-35 IS GENUINE
Several recent news reports from Russian media outlets indicate that Pakistani interest in the Sukhoi Su-35 multi-role fighter is genuine.

The Pakistani officials quoted were present at Army 2016, an international military and technical forum devoted to showcase defence industry projects from within and outside of Russia.

Speaking to Sputnik News, the deputy director of the Defence Export Promotion Organization (DEPO) Qadir Khan said, “Pakistan is involved in negotiations with Russia on a deal for Su-35 and Su-37. We are in initial stage now.” (Note: The Su-37 is a demonstrator program and it is not available on the market).

Interestingly, the Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP)’s Directorate General of Defence Purchases (DGDP), which is responsible for managing the assessment and procurement of arms for the armed forces (from domestic and foreign sources), also sent a delegation to attend Army 2016.

The delegation was led by the Director General of DGDP – Major General Naveed Ahmed.

According to Sputnik News’ Spanish portal, Maj. Gen Ahmed responded to inquiries about the Su-35 by stating that the option was being considered. He reportedly added that Pakistan is waiting for Russia to open negotiations.

Maj. Gen Ahmed also expressed hope that an agreement regarding the RD-93 turbofan (for the JF-17) will also be finalized in the near-term. Pakistan had already secured Russia’s agreement to directly supply the RD-93, so it is unclear if the statement was made in reference to buying additional engines or in other areas, such as establishing a maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) facility for the RD-93 in Pakistan, which Pakistan had been seekingsince November 2015.

In another Sputnik News article, Maj. Gen Ahmed was quoted saying:

“Our army services are [showing] keen interest in different Russian products. We are looking for the air platform, for any sorts of helicopters; for the army, we are looking for tanks, we are looking for anti-tanks weapon system and more importantly we are looking for the air defense system.”

Notes, Comments & Analysis:

If accurate, Major General Ahmed’s statements would indicate that Pakistan is indeed interested in the Su-35. While there have been numerous reports about Pakistani interest in the fighter, this would be the first direct and verifiable statement from a Pakistani official regarding the issue.

This is significant as the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) itself has only set the JF-17, F-16 and next-generation fighter on its modernization roadmap. The Director General of DGDP’s statement would suggest that another fighter could potentially be added and that the Su-35 is an option.

Interestingly, Maj. Gen Ahmed also reportedly added that a proposal of some kind was made to Russia, noting that the step of initiating negotiations would be up to Moscow. While the PAF itself has not voiced intent for procuring a new fighter type, the fact that this information would come from the DGDP is appropriate as it is sanctioned to manage procurement and acquisition issues.

Whether Russia opts to entertain Pakistan’s interest in the Su-35 is another matter entirely. However, the truly important point at this stage is the possibility that the PAF is indeed seeking another fighter platform – i.e. another short or medium-term addition joining the JF-17 and F-16. The requirement does not emerge to cater to the platform; rather, the platform is sought to fulfill a requirement.

On this basis, it will be worth observing if the PAF will study other fighter options, especially considering the reality that the Su-35 is a twin-engine fighter with considerable payload and range.

In regards to Russia itself. It appears that Pakistan is at the stage where it can generally examine and pursue Russian arms. In other words, exceptional clauses or exemptions would not be required in order to clear sales to Islamabad. However, certain political and strategic issues, such as its ties with Delhi, will prompt Moscow to be careful in terms of what it approves for sale, which is why the notion of the Su-35 is still far from a sure bet for Pakistan.
Source:http://quwa.org/2016/09/08/russian-media-reports-suggest-pakistani-interest-su-35-genuine/

What is the big deal, whether PAF is interested in SU-35 or not, ever North Korea is also interested in SU-35.

And is this SU-37 -- which is sole tech. demonstrator derived from SU-30 airframe, build with mostly carbon fibre and designed for the super maneuverability.