Indus valley civilization taught us diversity. Not Hinduism: Ashis Nandy

[knight11]

Ghareeb logo ki Ghareeb batain.I don't care what the shit aryan invasion is.

What i know is that only the people of Pakistan can claim IVC because the people of Pakistan are the true indigenous people of ancient IVC.

Claiming IVC just because Rig veda was written by the ancestors of Pakistanis and now Rig veda related to hinduism makes you people related to IVC is pure BS.if religion related to claiming the history of anything that is related to Religon than we can even claim egyptian and persian civilizations.

The only People from India who indeed can claim to be related to IVC are the people of Punjab in india and let me tell you that we don't consider them as Indian but by default Pakistani living in occupied Punjab territory.

Why didn't you claim Ayurveda as Pakistani, because the father of medicine Saint Charak, got his knowledge and education from the Ghandhar, which is in Pakistan.

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

Let me share something Funny

The Eighth Mandala of the Rig Veda is the most interesting and mysterious of all the Mandalas. It is full of historical data. It is all about foreign lands, particularly Iran and Sumeria. Scholars who consider Rig Veda as a historical document of Vedic Hindus are puzzled with the details in the Mandala (Section). The more we know about Mesopotamia (Iraq), the more we understand the Eighth Mandala.

Scholars who have studied this Mandala have identified the following historical data in this Mandala:
RV 8-5-37
Avestan (Iran) Kasu gives 100 camels and 10,000 cows to the priest
RV 8-64-6
Parshu (Persian Parsa) and Tirindra (Tiridates) give 100 000 gifts
RV 8-12-9
Like rays of sun, Indra consumes Arshasana (Iranian Ersan)
RV 8-32-2
Indra killed Sri Binda, Anarshani (Iranian Ersan), Ahishuva (Dragon or Snake Shuva).
RV 8-46-32
Balbutha and Taruksha have made a gift of 100 camels to the sage

Talk of camels and the Iranian names show that the Vedic Hindus started migrating to Iran at that period. But we must note that wherever the sages went they received the gifts. In short they were respected and they did Hindu Yagas.

After the Dasrajna Yuddha (Ten Kings War) mentioned in the Rig Veda there was a big migration of Vedic Indians towards Mesopotamia. They were called Asuras. Most of the Assyrian (Asura land) kings have this ASUR in their names as prefix or suffix. The group that went towards the West was led by Zarathustra/ Zoroaster. He called Vedic gods Asuras in revenge. Scholars have also noticed that the grammar and language of Zend Avesta coincided with the late period of Rig Veda. This means the Vedic Hindus were well settled in the Ganges and Indus plains when this group went towards the west.

Sage Savya Angirasa mentions Sushravas in the hymns (RV 1-53-9 and 10). He says that Divodasa Atitigva entered into an alliance with the youthful Sushravas. He is identified with Hushrava of Avesta (Iran).

Sage Kakshivan Ausija mentions Ishtashwa in RV 1-122 who is identified with Vistaspa of Avesta (Iran). Now we know from Mesopotamian and Avestan records that they lived around 2000 BCE.

Indrota (Indatu) of RV 8-68 is identified with Indatu of the Babylonian cuneiforms. He became the king of Babylon around 2000 BCE.

Emusha of RV 8-76 to 78 is identified with Emissun of Larsa near UR. The sage of 8-78-2, Kurusuti prays, for a MANA of gold. Max Muller admitted that if the MANA here indeed be the Sumerian MANA (measurement), the text would be very ancient. Mana is a half pound gold.

Vedic Hindus Migration to West Asia (From Talageri's book The Rig Veda)


From this hymn we come to know that Indra slayed Emusha. The name itself is a strange Non Vedic name. He was the king of Sumerian Emissum who ruled Larsa around 2000 BCE.

Tattriya Samhita also confirms this:
“I slay in inaccessible places…… (sacrifice). It said, “thou sayst that those can slay in inaccessible places – if this be so, the boar Vamamosha (Emusha) guards for Asuras, behind seven mountains, the wealth which the gods must obtain; prove title by slaying the boar.Indra by sezing the tuft of a dharba grass, pierced the mountains and slew him”.

Thus it was a historical battle in which Emusha of Sumeria was killed by Indra. Larsa is very near Uruk (Ur). This battle took place around 2004 BCE.

So Indians carried out lot of attacks in West Asia. Actually Asuras were also a splinter group of the Vedic Hindus. They revolted against the group that won the Ten Kings war. It was led by Sudasa with the support of Vasishta. All Dasa names are Vedic Hindus!!!

The mention of “seven mountains” led to the phrase in Indian stories, “beyond seven mountains and seven seas, there is a cave” etc. As children we have read such stories in Chandamama magazine. It is a Vedic phrase!!

From this we know that our forces travelled a long distance to attack the enemies. I have already explained in my post NAVAL ATTACKS OF HINDU GODS that how Lord Krishna eliminated the Chaldean forces (Kaladeyas) and the sea pirates (Nivata kavachas). The naval battles are described in detail in Mahabharata, Harivamsa and Bhagavatha Purana. These battles took place around 3100 BCE. The submarine discoveries under the sea near Dwaraka proved that it was a port 5000 years ago. Lord Muruga and Seran Senguttuvan also eliminated sea pirates and Yavanas according to Skanda Purana and Tamil epic Silappadikaram.

Naram Sin who ruled Akkadian empire (Mesopotamia/ Iraq) around 2250 BCE had an interpreter from Meluha (Indus Valley). Sumeria had several languages around 2500 BCE. Kassites and Hittites were people of Indian origin. All the names of Mitannian kings around 1400 BCE are in Sanskrit. They ruled Syria. Hyksos who attacked Egypt around 1700 BCE were Yakshas from India or Sri Lanka.

Modern research shows the role of Vedic Hindus in West Asia. Scholars admit that Sumeria was a melting pot of many language speakers and cultures from the very beginning. I have already written a post about 3000 Gods of Mesopotamia (Iraq). Egyptians and Sumerians say that they came from outside where as Megasthenes who visited India 2300 years ago says that Indians claim that they have been ruling for 154 generations when I came here. It shows Hindus were the sons of the soil where as Egyptians and Sumerians were migrants from India. Sanskrit scriptures called Egypt ‘Misra Desa’ meaning Land of Mixed people. So the purity of blood was maintained only in India and not in other places.

One may wonder why so many languages existed around 3000 BCE in Sumeria. Only Hindu scriptures have the answer.

@knight11 @Aminroop @Nilgiri @Srinivas

Origin of Easter from Ishtar and Ishtar from Hindu Goddess.(part -1)




The following information on Easter as an adaptation of the idea of Ishtar, the Assyrian and Babylonian Goddess of Fertility makes an interesting reading. The annual revival of the Spring season which was originally identified with Ishtar was adapted by Christianity as the day of resurrection of Christ. For those who are familiar with the Hindu rules of iconography, the concept of Ishtar is seen as an adaptation from the pre-existing images of Mother Goddess of the Hindu pantheon. The mother goddess principle is the oldest in the world and in the Hindu Thought as well. In this article let me share some of my observations on the development of Mother Concept of Hindu Thought and its spread in other parts of the world.






(Picture courtesy :-

Frontiers of Anthropology: The Story of Easter)



Easter is not a fixed date in the civil calendar. It is fixed on the basis of Full moon that comes after March equinox. It has been found that the day of resurrection of Jesus was adapted from the pre-existing custom of resurrection or revival of Goddess Ishtar from death. This is nothing but a metaphorical way of saying that the new season of spring had arrived after a death like cold season.

Interestingly the pre-Christian Europe was following lunation to mark important events. Even the present practice of celebrating the New Year on January 1st came from one such practice. When Caesar wanted to start the New Year on 25th December (which was again a pre-existing date of Birth day of Mitra), the people resisted it because it did not coincide with either New Moon or Full Moon. A few days after that, i.e., on 1st January, 45 BC, New Moon occurred. So that date was chosen as the New Year. The importance given to Full and New Moon in Europe at that time seems to be a continuation of the pre-existing customs of Vedic life.

To cite an example of the spread of the pre-existing customs or ideas and their subsequent degeneration owing to loss of connection with or understanding of the original idea, let me take up an idea of Mithraism. Mithra, which the western world considers as a Persian God is a degenerated idea taken out from the Hindu concept of Vedic God, Mithra. Mithra is the friend of cattle and is the cause for rains in Hindu texts. He always tows behind the Sun. Any ray of sun has the distribution of Mithra and other entities (Devas) which are none other than energy pockets of Nature. They are depicted as follows in the vAstu (science of building / architecture) diagrams.

The very first line of Taittriya Upanishad that was the basic education in olden days in India, glorifies Mithra- Varuna – Aryama, the three entities who are supposed to travel along with the Sun every day. In the above diagram, we can find from east to west, the line-up of entities as Surya (Sun), Aryama (departed ancestors), Brahma, Mithra (friend) and Varuna (ocean). When the central part called as Brahma, comes directly over head at noon time in any place (this is possible only in Tropical regions), the sun (Surya) will be seen moving eastward and Aryama (pitrus / departed ancestors) would be just behind the sun in such a way that if water oblations are given at that time to the departed ancestors, it is absorbed by Mithra who is just coming to reach the overhead position. Varuna or the sea comes close after Mithra which further aids in the absorption of water by Mithra (through the process of evaporation). This is the unique relationship between Mitra, varuna and Surya (Sun).

Mithra signifies the rains and Varuna the ocean (water body). According to the Hindu meteorological concept, the conditions for rain appear well in advance. To put it differently, a place would receive rains, 195 days after the Mithra – Varuna – Aryama combination had suck the water.

The kind of evaporation and other climatic conditions that prevail on a day is directly related to the rainfall that would occur after 195 days in that place. This is basic idea. This has been elaborately explained in Brihad samhita by Varahamihira. This is also found expressed in early Sangam texts in Tamil. By this it is meant that Mitra – the friend of the cattle is associated with rain formation which can be predicted 195 days beforehand. Depending on the rain related factors of the 1stday, a place would receive rain after 195 days. For more details :-Non-random-Thoughts: Rainfall prediction – Part 1 (Pre-rainy season observation & GarbOttam)

Interestingly the month of Mithra in the Zoroastrian calendar also falls on the 196th day! It is the 16th day in the 7th month of the Zoroastrian calendar. This puts the beginning of the calendar in December. December 25 was considered as the first day of this calendar. Again this was an early concept of Vedic people – who in my opinion shifted from the southern hemisphere to India after a series of inundations in South east Asian islands. Only for the people of Southern hemisphere December could be an important time of summer solstice. For those in the Northern hemisphere, it is winter solstice. The Vedic system of meteorology starts the counting of the meteorological observation on the Full moon of December (Solar month of Sagittarius), the summer solstice of the Southern hemisphere. The climatic parameters of that day would bring rain on the 196th day after that.

This concept and its practical applicability are relevant to India, particularly South India which experiences south west monsoon six and a half months (195 days of the lunar calendar) after the Full Moon of December -January , but the concept is also found in Iran / Persia and later adapted by Greeks. Due to geographical reasons, these regions cannot receive the Mithraic rains. But this concept and date are found with them. How is this possible? The plausible answer is that the people of this region had once lived close to equator surrounded by the ocean where this 1to195 day rain calendar was applicable. The concept could not have travelled to Iran, without people taking it up along with them, while migrating from the region near the equator, where this concept is possible to happen. In course of time the date stayed on but the symbolism of Mithra was modified. He who had to bless people with cattle wealth by means of sufficient rains for the growth of pastures, came to be considered as one who gives the cattle to people as food! A story was gradually built around Mithra (who had to somehow help the people with cattle) that have him killed the cattle and feasted them – something which people also could copy and make sure that they had enough to eat and thank Mithra for that!!

Mitra's date stayed on in memory as an important one until 2000 years ago.

Like this, the worship of Mother Goddess having its roots in Vedic system but appearing with modifications in the ancient culture of Europe make us think that a pre-existing common culture of people spread and degenerated in course of time with the spread of people to different places away from the region of original culture.

Let us see the Ishtar image.




Certainly this image must have been conceived with lot of thought and ideas related to each part of the figure. When people lose touch with the core idea, many new interpretations start filling up the air. The degeneration is such that this figure was connected with sacred prostitution – a case of the then prevailing condition being attributed to the portrayal of Ishtar which no one at that time knew what it was about. I say this with conviction because the object that this figure is holding in her left hand is a kind of symbol of power and authority which is not of a disgusting type but of a moralistic type. See the same object in the hand of the ruler (Anu?) in the Sumerian depiction.

The wheel of Dharma is there and the king is wielding this object (sceptre? Or hand-fan?) as a mark of protection of the subjects and their rights.

Almost a similar object can be found in the Indus seals!

The first object (on our left) is the wheel of Dharma (righteousness). Numerous Indus seals are seen with objects like these. Seeing similar ones in the seals of various Indian kings in the past (particularly the Cholan seals and the Kharavela inscriptions), I am led to believe that these are Ashta mangala objects, the 'auspicious objects' connected with Kings and their rule.

Fish are part of the 8 items of Ashta mangala symbols! There are 8 and 21 items that are auspicious symbols of the Royalty – some of which would find place in the Royal seal or emblem.

The 8 auspicious symbols as per Hindu texts are lamp, fan (chamara), mirror, elephant goad (ankusha), twin fishes, drum (damaru), pot (holy water pot) and Flag (banner)

The 21 auspicious symbols are crown, Royal canopy or umbrella, fan (chamara), elephant goad, drum (murasu), chakra (wheel), elephant, Flag or banner, wall, thOraNam ( decoratives on the door), water pot (purna kumbha), garland, shanku (conch), ocean, makara (marine fish), tortoise, pair of fishes, lion, lamp, bull and simhasana (throne).

To give an example from the Cholas (who ruled Tamil lands), the following is the coin of Utthama Chola of 10th century AD.





It has a twin fish. It is easy to mistake this as a Pandyan coin because fish is the symbol of Pandyans whereas tiger is the symbol of Cholas. But fish being an auspicious Royal symbol, the Cholan king had that embossed in his coins and seals.

Another sample case that I want to show is the 2 symbols found in the inscriptions of Kharavela, ruler of Kalinga (today's Orissa in India). This is dated at 1st century BCE. At the beginning of the inscriptions a swastika and a knot (srivatsa) are engraved.





Similar ones are found in the Indus seal!

Seal 1356

Though these two are not considered as auspicious symbols of the list given above, these two were auspicious symbols about 2000 years ago stretching to 5000 years ago in the Indus region.

Coming back to Ishtar, she is holding the sceptre like object in both her hands.






Raising of the two hands is the common feature in the iconography of Hindu Gods, particularly the female Goddess. Look at this image of Kali found in South India.


This popular form of Kali is holding Paasa or noose in her left hand. The loop of this noose is similar to the loop of the object that Ishtar is holding.



The image of the God or Goddess may have any number of pairs of hands – each with some symbolism, but the upper most pair of hands would show the inherent idea or concept of the deity. For example in the image of Vishnu shown below, the topmost hands hold a disc (wheel or chakra) and a conch (shanku). They are his weapons of strength with which he destroys the evil. The other hands are shown for protection of the devotee.





Similarly in the dancing image of Shiva, the topmost pair of hands carries a drum (damaru) and fire (agni). They depict what he symbolises – the sound of drum ushering in creation of the worlds and fire, devolution.



Here Shiva symbolises both Creation and devolution – of cosmic worlds. In mundane level wherever the natural features are evolved and become suitable for living or lost once for all with destructive nature, there Shiva is said to dance. This must not be construed as destroying the same thing that was created. The timings and locations would vary but the idea is where Nature or Cosmic features spring up or get destructed. A popular example in Shiva's creation is the rise of the Himalayas which was accompanied with the sound of his Drum. In reality clash of tectonic plates causing vibrations of sorts (including the sound vibrations) resulted in the gradual rising of the Himalayas, with which Shiva came to be identified.

This kind of birth- death feature is markedly different for female deities in Hindu Thought. Where a living being or an entity of the world in our surroundings is destroyed or killed, there the Mother Goddess principle is seen.

 

[knight11]

Ghareeb logo ki Ghareeb batain.I don't care what the shit aryan invasion is.

I like your phrase Ghareeb logo ki Ghareeb batain --- Ghareeb in Cultural Heritage and History.

What i know is that only the people of Pakistan can claim IVC because the people of Pakistan are the true indigenous people of ancient IVC.

The real reason for this claim is the problem for an educated Pakistani is to figure out when and where his history started. If it is to be 1947 in the geographical area that is now Pakistan, then there is very little past for him to build an identity. If it is to be from the time of Mohammed, then his history is outside his land. If it is prior to that, then his history is largely a Hindu-Buddhist history, a past he wants to deny.

Mubarak Ali, a prominent Pakistani scholar, explains the predicament:
“Since its inception Pakistan has faced the monumental task of formulating its national identity separate from India. Partitioned from the ancient civilization of India, Pakistan has struggled to construct its own culture; a culture not just different and unique from India, but one appreciable by the rest of the world. The overshadowing image of the Indian civilization also haunted the founders of Pakistan, who channeled their efforts in making the differences between India and Pakistan more tangible and obvious.

The following article titled, Separating Urdu from Sanskrit, published in the Urdu newspaper Jang, explains the construction of this theory of an 8,000-year-old Pakistan:

“Pakistani intellectuals have been looking for the roots of their separate identity in the remote past for the last two decades. They are not satisfied with the two-nation theory propounded by Iqbal, according to which religion was the basis of nationhood… They want to show that… the Indus and the Gangetic valleys have always been home to separate civilizations. Being the heir to the Indus valley civilization, Pakistan is a geographic entity whose roots go back to time immemorial…

Claiming IVC just because Rig veda was written by the ancestors of Pakistanis and now Rig veda related to hinduism makes you people related to IVC is pure BS.if religion related to claiming the history of anything that is related to Religon than we can even claim egyptian and persian civilizations.

You can claim the whole Arab, or Iran so what I never said that Hindus is the Religion, infact Hindus is the Culture and its link with the IVC whether denied, or accept by Pakistan could not change the reality.

The only People from India who indeed can claim to be related to IVC are the people of Punjab in india and let me tell you that we don't consider them as Indian but by default Pakistani living in occupied Punjab territory.

Then You have no Idea about IVC, care to check the excavation sites found. You forgot Gujrat, sind, haryana, Rajasthan.

 

[acetophenol]

Sorry dear Ashish but IVC is not your dad property.You have no right to claim even an inch of IVC as like your fellow indians

I am sorry to say this farhan,but hearing this from a staff of this forum,you should've used better language IMO.

Also I agree that no Indian has the right to claim IVC has his own,neither does any Pakistani. Its the treasure created by our forefathers,preserved by nature.

Infact,the term IVC isn't proper,its wasn't just a civilisation around Indus,but a full fledged culture which included parts of the world which happened to be present day India and Pakistan.

BJP's game

• Ashis Nandy agrees with Rajnath Singh on the definition of secularism

• The BJP is trying to appear secular, thinks the sociologist

India's heritage

• Dharm means ethics; every being has its own nature

• Religion is a relatively new concept that India has had to grapple with

More in the story

• How every religion has death with differences

• Why is it so difficult to separate religion and politics

We celebrated the Constitution Day last week. There were heated debates around the word 'secular' and values enshrined in the Constitution. We spoke to sociologist Ashis Nandy on secularism, tolerance and the Hindu religion to help understand the undercurrents behind the debate:

SM: The word 'secular' is under scrutiny of parliamentarians. Apart from calling it the most misused word today, Home Minister Rajnath Singh made a point about how secular should be interpreted as panthnirapeksh, not dharm nirapeksh. What do the two terms mean?

AN: Secularism as a concept doesn't make sense to most Indians. It's a mere slogan. In Sanskrit it translates to dharm nirapekshita, which means you are neutral towards all ethics.

It is interesting that Rajnath Singh says secularism should be associated with panth nirapekshita. (LK) Advani is also known to have said this earlier. By using this term the BJP is implying that they are the genuine secularists and not pseudo-secularists. That's a little hard to gulp.


Panth nirapekshita is 'sect-independent'. It means you are equidistant from all belief systems. Dharm is what you consider to be your ethical conduct. You cannot be neutral to a course of conduct. Some course are not acceptable to you while some are.

A Gandhian once told me that only a demonic being can be dharmnirapeksh. Even animals have their own ethics, known as their swadharm. A snake's swadharm might be to bite, a tiger's to kill.

Swadharm is culture-independent, group-independent and person-independent. All beings have different ethics and we have to live with that.

But I, as a State, cannot be nirapeksh (neutral) when it comes to thedharm of my subjects. That's not my swadharm. I will have to take a stance.

Governments, too, have their course of conduct, called rashtra dharm.

So in this instance, I'll have to agree with Rajnath Singh. Panthnirapeksh is closer to defining secularism than dharm nirapeksh.


SM: Since dharm is a deeply personal sense of duty, this could easily be a philosophy used to justify any act of violence against another.

It is said Nazi leader Himmler always carried a leather-bound copy of the 'Bhagawad Gita'. He interpreted dharm as the need to rise above your own likes and dislikes to perform your duty towards your nation. Unfortunately, that duty meant perpetrating a genocide.

In the philosophy of dharm who is there to tell you this is wrong?

AN: Yes, that was nasty dharm! The kind that found much support globally, even from Sangh Parivar. Bal Thackrey supported it and so did many others. They failed to recognize that that was a nasty dharm.

Dharm is one of the most difficult concepts to explain. I'm only giving you a sliver of the immensity of what it means. There is really no way to translate it accurately. The decider of one's dharm is only oneself. A Jain person's dharm is not to kill. One cannot force him to kill.

Religion is far more narrow. It presumes ethics will be more or less the same for everybody.

Dharm as introduced by religion is a relatively new concept, dating back to merely 19th century.


Indians didn't initially have a religion. The concept of religion in its present sense is derived from protestant Christianity. The Indus valley civilization was a way of life and to live with our diversity is an old lesson we learnt as a civilization. It has nothing to do with Hinduism.

The need for religion came as a result of colonialism. In my enquiries I've found that in Japanese, Chinese and a huge number of cultures the word, religion was a relatively new word coined in the 19th century. We had to grapple with this new concept.

Secularism claims that religion should not interfere in public life. Each one to his own.

But no religion can stay out. All religions talks about the theory of life. So they cannot say that the public sphere is outside of their scope.

In Latin America the liberation theology has spread across the nation. It's the Christian intervention in public life on grounds of Christianity.



SM: Why do Hindus believe theirs to be the most tolerant religion?

AN: All religions claim they are tolerant. Hinduism is tolerant up to a limit. It doesn't tolerate non Hindus eating beef. Hindus could tolerate beef-eating English rulers, but not really the Muslims. Everybody has a limit to tolerance.


SM: Modi is known to have said tolerance indicates living with something you're uncomfortable with and Hindus have always practiced acceptance which is in some sense a higher truth.

AN: In some sense he isn't wrong. But acceptance isn't a Hindu trait. It is the trait of all Indus Valley cultures whether it is Indian Islam or Jainism or Buddhism. I call it radical diversity. The Indus valley cultures had the tremendous ability to accept radical diversity. We learnt to live with our differences.
Indus valley cultures had tremendous ability to accept radical diversity

Jews in Israel are known to be very intolerant but not so in India. The Indian Jews were known to be very close to Muslims, whether in Kochi or in Maharashtra.

That being said it's hard to separate religion from culture. Where Indian culture ends and where Hinduism begins is very hard to say.



SM: In your paper the Anti-secularist Manifesto you begin with the sentence about Gandhi that he believed himself to be a secularist but thought poorly of those who wanted to separate religion from politics. Why is it impossible to separate religion from politics in India even today?

AN: That's because of religion systems which dictate how one leads their public life, how to choose one's leader and with what morality to make Acts.

Gandhi, being a believer himself, was underlining that politics also has morality. People may not agree with that. Lies, for instance, are permitted in election campaigning. But that was not what Gandhi thought. Gandhi thought that politics and religion had to meet.

People vote on religious grounds despite a deep political knowledge and a rising literacy. We've been studying this since 1960, so we know that political knowledge in our rural folks and the poorest of the poor was very high.

Anyone studying history will know how present day religions took their form,how all these religious customs and practices and ideals and icons over which create differences within ourselves,took form from mere human practices and nothing divine.

But alas,we seldom listen to "historians" for history,we listen to fanboys,politicians,babas for the history!

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

I am sorry to say this farhan,but hearing this from a staff of this forum,you should've used better language IMO.

Also I agree that no Indian has the right to claim IVC has his own,neither does any Pakistani. Its the treasure created by our forefathers,preserved by nature.

Infact,the term IVC isn't proper,its wasn't just a civilisation around Indus,but a full fledged culture which included parts of the world which happened to be present day India and Pakistan.


Anyone studying history will know how present day religions took their form,how all these religious customs and practices and ideals and icons over which create differences within ourselves,took form from mere human practices and nothing divinePlease check ur mail.

But alas,we seldom listen to "historians" for history,we listen to fanboys,politicians,babas for the history!

I am doing graduation in Sociology .
I have great Plans for changing Indian Society

 

[acetophenol]

I am doing graduation in Sociology .
I have great Plans for changing Indian Society

What all plans do you have bro,eager to hear'em

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

What all plans do you have bro,eager to hear'em

Its a Secret

 

[Srinivas]

How can he deduct these conclusions when most of the evidences found during the british era are conflicting?

 

[Manidabest]

One thing is for sure nothing remains permanent.... territories do change and history keep changing and we should not forget that it gets distorted... now having said that claiming any site to indian or Pakistani heritage is just not a good way of seeing history and religion... we can say that Pakistan has one of the oldest archaeological sites in the world mohenjadaro, harappa, ghandara, cave paintings, and 7,000 yrs old mahergarh in balochistan ...

 

[My-Analogous]

One thing is for sure nothing remains permanent.... territories do change and history keep changing and we should not forget that it gets distorted... now having said that claiming any site to indian or Pakistani heritage is just not a good way of seeing history and religion... we can say that Pakistan has one of the oldest archaeological sites in the world mohenjadaro, harappa, ghandara, cave paintings, and 7,000 yrs old mahergarh in balochistan ...

Don't forget Soanians and we are father's of South East Asians (Including Indian's ) and it is Soanian that all Pakistani culture and human settlement of South east Asia start. So basically first we were Soanian's and later we develop Indus Valley Civilization Soanian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

Don't forget Soanians and we are father's of South East Asians (Including Indian's ) and it is Soanian that all Pakistani culture and human settlement of South east Asia start. So basically first we were Soanian's and later we develop Indus Valley Civilization Soanian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If U intended a pun , then okey !

But If U are serious , then Your words are without sync

 

[My-Analogous]

If U intended a pun , then okey !

But If U are serious , then Your words are without sync

Yes now Indian can say that because of Pakistan our population is overgrown

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

Yes now Indian can say that because of Pakistan our population is overgrown

 

[knight11]

Don't forget Soanians and we are father's of South East Asians (Including Indian's ) and it is Soanian that all Pakistani culture and human settlement of South east Asia start. So basically first we were Soanian's and later we develop Indus Valley Civilization Soanian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

lolz

What about Moh bin Qasem

 

[My-Analogous]

lolz

What about Moh bin Qasem

have few more