Indonesia woos Japan as China-led high-speed-rail project stalls

[Daniel808]

Please continue building ,we need chinese money and tools while we confront them on the south china sea issues.

You really don't know how the Business and insurance system work, don't you?

That's why the Chinese still invest and building factory in india even they can be at war at any given times.

Chinese is smarter than you If not, they will not as Powerful and Rich as now today.

 

[striver44]

You really don't know how the Business and insurance system work, don't you?

That's why the Chinese still invest and building factory in india even they can be at war at any given times.

Chinese is smarter than you If not, they will not as Powerful and Rich as now.

Sure, chinese is full of such confidence
From TSMC, Huawei 5G, the response to the pandemic inquiry, they really think that they're doing it all right. Until the seconds before shit hits the fan .
Please continue to pour money,p we only love your money nothing else, and please cooperate with the Japanese. We don't want any more delay.

 

[Brainsucker]

Indonesia should choose Japan on the basis that Japan is the world leading anime producing country.

What?

 

[striver44]

What?

yes you heard that right.

 

[Brainsucker]

yes you heard that right.

Please explain, I don't get it. Are you sarcasm, or are you serious with your post. but what anime do with this project?

 

[Whizzack]

Sure, chinese is full of such confidence
From TSMC, Huawei 5G, the response to the pandemic inquiry, they really think that they're doing it all right. Until the seconds before shit hits the fan .
Please continue to pour money,p we only love your money nothing else, and please cooperate with the Japanese. We don't want any more delay.


View attachment 640744

Actually this form of business flexibility is what makes them successful here..

For example, when we tell them (and the world) we are going to stop raw ore exports (nickel, bauxite, copper, etc) and will only export processed ore, they didn't make much fuss and quickly invests in smelters and other facilities here...

This is a very different attitude to, say Freeport... Where they keep on stalling on their smelter projects while requesting more concessions even though they have been here since forever.. or European countries which complains and plans to report us to WTO over this issue...

Japan is usually more accommodating compared to western countries in this regard, but they are usually also more expensive and more protective of their technology... I think one of the more common complain about Japan is their reluctance to give significant ToT in major projects... Although this is probably due to their strong IP protection laws... No one doubts their work quality though...

 

[Brainsucker]

Actually this form of business flexibility is what makes them successful here..

For example, when we tell them (and the world) we are going to stop raw ore exports (nickel, bauxite, copper, etc) and will only export processed ore, they didn't make much fuss and quickly invests in smelters and other facilities here...

This is a very different attitude to, say Freeport... Where they keep on stalling on their smelter projects while requesting more concessions even though they have been here since forever.. or European countries which complains and plans to report us to WTO over this issue...

Japan is usually more accommodating compared to western countries in this regard, but they are usually also more expensive and more protective of their technology... I think one of the more common complain about Japan is their reluctance to give significant ToT in major projects... Although this is probably due to their strong IP protection laws... No one doubts their work quality though...

But what benefit that we can get from this, beside the economic one? Do they agree to send their teacher here to teach us how to build our own smelter or something?

 

[8888888888888]

Need to note down this is what Indonesia gets with signing with China:

China has also sweetened its deal in other ways, including committing to establish a joint venture with Indonesian firms to produce rolling stock for high-speed rail, electric rail, light rail systems, not only for Indonesia, but also for export to other Asian countries – to transfer related technology – and to renovate and rebuild train stations. It seems that Indonesia has benefitted from Japan-China competition.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Indonesia#China's_bid

 

[Nike]

The main reason of the delay is previously due to land acquisition issues and local red tape bureaucracy (even Covid-19 didn't slow the work as much)... Physical work that should have started in 2016 only started in late 2018 and only accelerated in 2019... The actual construction time so far is only about 1,5 years and the progress is actually quite impressive..

With all regards to Japan, even if they had gotten this project, they will still face the same delays... Simply put, no land no construction... Just like what Japan is currently facing with the Indian HSR project... I believe what the article is talking about is for the possible future extension of the HSR line (Bandung - Surabaya line) which is actually outside the scope of the current ongoing project (Jakarta - Bandung line).

If true, it would also be interesting to see how the gov plans to fund the HSR extension project, as currently the project is funded purely under the Business-to-Business scheme (between Indonesian and Chinese SOEs) with no gov funding (APBN) at all... Japan previously lost out due to their insistence for gov guarantees in this project (also higher price tag and longer construction time).

India fare more worse than us

 

[striver44]

Need to note down this is what Indonesia gets with signing with China:

China has also sweetened its deal in other ways, including committing to establish a joint venture with Indonesian firms to produce rolling stock for high-speed rail, electric rail, light rail systems, not only for Indonesia, but also for export to other Asian countries – to transfer related technology – and to renovate and rebuild train stations. It seems that Indonesia has benefitted from Japan-China competition.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Indonesia#China's_bid

as I said competition is always good.

 

[Daniel808]

Actually this form of business flexibility is what makes them successful here..

For example, when we tell them (and the world) we are going to stop raw ore exports (nickel, bauxite, copper, etc) and will only export processed ore, they didn't make much fuss and quickly invests in smelters and other facilities here...

This is a very different attitude to, say Freeport... Where they keep on stalling on their smelter projects while requesting more concessions even though they have been here since forever.. or European countries which complains and plans to report us to WTO over this issue...

Japan is usually more accommodating compared to western countries in this regard, but they are usually also more expensive and more protective of their technology... I think one of the more common complain about Japan is their reluctance to give significant ToT in major projects... Although this is probably due to their strong IP protection laws... No one doubts their work quality though...

I'm agree with you in this matter.

But for another info, together with European countries, Japan is also the one that Report to WTO for Indonesia's rule to stop exporting raw materials.

 

[Whizzack]

But what benefit that we can get from this, beside the economic one? Do they agree to send their teacher here to teach us how to build our own smelter or something?

They train and educate the local people on how to build, operate and maintain the smelters and other related facilities, it's part of the ToT...

Benefit for us other than economic...? more jobs and skill upgrade for the local people of course.. We now not only mine and export raw material... we now can mine, process, and export.. adding more skill (and value) to the workforce... and of course processed materials has higher value compared to simple raw material.. So that's more money when exporting too... and also the fact that the facilities itself are now here, in-country. The facilities itself are high value assets..

India fare more worse than us

Indeed.. Indian bureaucratic mess makes our own bureaucratic mess looks like child play...

 

[Lego Jangkar]

mistake from the start, we should choose Japan as the pioneer of the HSR in the world