Indonesia Turning Away From ASEAN?

[Viet]

read the entire wiki please.
yes eating with bare fingers proved to making the food tastes more delicious. But hey who cares about table manner?

Golden age[edit]

Expansion and decline of Majapahit Empire, started in Trowulan Majapahit in 13th century, expanded to much of Indonesian archipelago, until receded and fell in early 16th century.
Hayam Wuruk, also known as Rajasanagara, ruled Majapahit in 1350–1389. During this period, Majapahit attained its peak with the help of prime minister, Gajah Mada. Under Gajah Mada's command (1313–1364), Majapahit conquered more territories and become the regional power. According to the book of Nagarakertagama pupuh (canto) XIII and XIV mentioned several states in Sumatra,Malay Peninsula, Borneo, Sulawesi, Nusa Tenggara islands, Maluku, New Guinea, and some parts of Philippines islands as under Majapahit realm of power. This source mentioned of Majapahit expansions has marked the greatest extent of Majapahit empire. This empire also serve as one of the most influential empires in the Indonesian history. It is considered as a commercial trading empire in the civilization of Asia.

well, it is you who compare Majapahit with the Ming. the chinese during the Ming invented many things such as gunpowder and fire arms. their porcelain are famous. we in Dai Viet adopted and copied many things from the Ming.

what did you invent or achieve? I just cite eating with bare fingers as one example.

 

[NarThoD]

@madokafc @nufix @pr1v4t33r @Indos @Reashot Xigwin

capek ngeladenin makhluk yg udah kecuci otak kayak gini, gantian dong -_-

 

[William Hung]

we adopted and copied many things from the Ming.

Why are you so proud of this? see you just keep revealing your ethnic Chinese side lol.

Russia's economy is getting hit hard. Soon, it will be a good chance for VN to bargain Russia for cheap weapons. Come and chat with me about your Russian arms wishlist, otherwise PDF might turn you fully into a Chinese.

 

[NarThoD]

well, it is you who compare Majapahit with the Ming. the chinese during the Ming invented many things such as gunpowder and fire arms. their porcelain are famous. we in Dai Viet adopted and copied many things from the Ming.

what did you invent or achieve? I just cite eating with bare fingers as one example.

i said politically, economy and military

Politically : Majapahit have a large connection with outside kingdoms in India, Siamese, Khmer, and even Ottoman
Geographical and economic constraints suggest that rather than a regular centralised authority, the outer states were most likely to have been connected mainly by trade connections, which was probably a royal monopoly.[4](p19) It also claimed relationships with Champa, Cambodia, Siam, southern Burma, and Vietnam, and even sent missions to China

Economy:
The Nagarakertagama states that the fame of the ruler of Wilwatikta (a synonym for Majapahit) attracted foreign merchants from far and wide, including Indians, Khmers, Siamese, and Chinese among others. While in later period, Yingyai Shenglan mentioned that large numbers of Chinese traders and Muslim merchants from west (from Arab and India, but mostly from Muslim states in Sumatra and Malay peninsula) are settling in Majapahit port cities, such as Tuban, Gresik and Hujung Galuh (Surabaya). A special tax was levied against some foreigners, possibly those who had taken up semi-permanent residence in Java and conducted some type of enterprise other than foreign trade. The Majapahit Empire had trading links with Chinese Ming dynasty, Annam and Champa in today Vietnam, Cambodia, Siamese Ayutthayan, Burmese Martaban and the south IndianVijayanagara Empire.

Military :

Mongol invasion of Java - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1377, a few years after Gajah Mada's death, Majapahit sent a punitive naval attack against a rebellion in Palembang,[4](p19) contributing to the end of the Srivijayan kingdom. Gajah Mada's other renowned general was Adityawarman[citation needed], known for his conquest in Minangkabau.

A lot of history and inventions of our many kingdoms are being destroyed by dutch during Dutch occupation of Indonesia. Too bad. but i hardly find it on internet.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

well, it is you who compare Majapahit with the Ming...

Those comparation between majapahit & ming probably not excactly right to explain how majapahit empire almost unite entire SEA like this statement.

of course. No offence, but in the past we're the one who almost unite entire SEA with one flag. Majapahit Empire of Java is same as strong in terms of politically, economy and military compared with Ming Dynasty during same era

For ASEAN today, this statement is far from the truth, but if we look back ASEAN member on the beginning (Indonesia, malaysia, singapore, philippines, thailand) then, this statement can give a more accurate picture.

The chinese during the Ming invented many things such as gunpowder and fire arms. their porcelain are famous. we in Dai Viet adopted and copied many things from the Ming. what did you invent or achieve? I just cite eating with bare fingers as one example.

As for invention, and how viet adopted many things from the Ming, i can say that different empire have different sphere of influence. We influence malay, philippine, micronesia, and most of indonesian archipelago today.

.

 

[Viet]

Why are you so proud of this? see you just keep revealing your ethnic Chinese side lol.

yes, you can blame the chinese for all if I say something bad

Russia's economy is getting hit hard. Soon, it will be a good chance for VN to bargain Russia for cheap weapons. Come and chat with me about your Russian arms wishlist, otherwise PDF might turn you fully into a Chinese.

we need more subs. have you heard any rumours of?

 

[William Hung]

yes, you can blame the chinese for all if I say something bad

Good idea, you can also use that excuse if you make a mistake at work.

we need more subs. have you heard any rumours of?

I don't know. It's better to wait until Russia becomes poorer and it's defense industry struggle. Then everyone can bargain Russia for some cheap deal.

 

[Indos]

Actually @Black Flag has more rational thingking here, it is actually not in the case where we want to do something against Vietnam interest by being more assertive about our own rights and our other objectives. Even @NiceGuy welcome the worst scenario that Indonesia may take in the future

As I mention earlier, we have another interest in other region as well, and since Soeharto times until Susiilo Bambang Yudhoyono we just have too much focus on ASEAN, so it is natural now to explore other cooperation somewhere else.

@NarThoD

Kelabakan ya.........

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

I did not read anything about Indonesia wanting to leave ASEAN. It just say they want to focus on relations that can really benefit them. Nothing wrong with that.

Asia is no doubt the main trading bloc for Indonesia, but it is also too volatile... with all these territorial conflicts, countries joining different blocs to fight against each other, the biggest economic power in the region acting childish and opaque.....I can see how this new Indonesia president is getting fed up and wants to explore new relation and policy.

Also ASEAN is a joke. The fall of democracy in Thailand is a dead ringer that we should shun it.

 

[William Hung]

Also ASEAN is a joke. The fall of democracy in Thailand is a dead ringer that we should shun it.

NEA is also a joke too. All 3 major countries, JP+SK+CHN, still make a big deal out of some silly shrine and still can't solve that issue. And why the **** does a dictatorship still exist in NK when it's now 2014?

I think Brunei is doing the best in Asia lol.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

NEA is also a joke too. All 3 major countries, JP+SK+CHN, all still make a big deal out of some silly shrine. And why the **** does a dictatorship still exist in NK when it's now 2014?

I think Brunei is doing the best in Asia lol.

The difference is NEA have no organization that is supposed to represent them, but the SEA unfortunately do & god dang its stank. Our policy of non-interference basically made the organization into a joke. Imagine that sort things happening in the EU?

If there's a coup you can bet that there will be at least a sanction or a regime change at the most.

Brunei actually pays you for being Bruneian. Of course its doing best.

 

[somsak]

Black flag where do u live? What nationality? What ethnicity?
VN members here ask me. I never lie.

 

[Bouncer]

In line with Jokowi’s worldview, he said Jakarta will likely prioritize deepening relationships with India and the Gulf countries.

Duuude noo, bad move. Don't get involved with Gulf. Stick to ASEAN people, Indonesia has achieved so much.

 

[Edison Chen]

PH is our friend. TW is our family.
TNP calls for alliance with Vietnam against China - Taipei Times

I have to agree part of this. Taiwanese are anti China to some extent. You can see their comments on youtube, when many westerners like or cheer for China's achievement, Taiwanese post very toxic comments, plus I've come across some Taiwanese who gave me very very bad impression. When Taiwanese singer Christine Fan mourned the victims of NanJing Massacre on FB, those disgusting Taiwanese people even shot her curse words, very toxic words, they say NanKing Massacre is none of their business, lol!! Those son of dicks already forget where their ancestors come from. You can be allies I don't care, I don't have time to read full of the news, those are political propaganda for their own interests, which can't reflect common Taiwanese thoughts. The question is they hate Chinese, but how can you make sure they love you Vietnamese, and for what reason?

Vietnamese people maybe have a dream to bring the sub mekong region within its sphere of influence, whether it's possible or not to be achieved in their lifetime span, with the size of economic power that only a fraction of its richer neighbors, it's quite questionable.

In other hand, indonesia is already an empire, with sphere of influence from sumatra to papua. 17.000 islands, 5.8 million km² of sea territory, with java as the core of its strength. Our new Pres see this, and he is ready to bring Indonesia to the new height.

Of course, Indonesia has much more potential and resources in asean. If Singapore and Indonesia quit ASEAN, this organization will dissolve automatically.

Maybe, the withdrawal will weaken Thailand-Malaysia as their market get narrower when VN almost dont have much economic tie wt Indonesia. We will call for more help from Russia-EU-US-JP-SK to surpass Thailand in all fields, and restart the plan to unify sub-Mekong region again.

After that, we will call for fund in Kra canal project in Thailand, merchant ships will pass through Kra canal instead of Malacca strait. Game over for Malaysia-Singapore


Map showing proposed Kra Isthmus Canal location in Thailand

Niceguy, I have to say, you are very naive, you have fantastic blueprints for Vietnam, I can understand it's your mother land. But we should be more more pragmatic. I don't see any evidence to back up your claim. How do you know you won't be affected at all if Indonesia quit? And for what reasons RU-EU-US-JP-SK will spare all their kindness to help you, to finish your own ambition? What can you give them in return?

I think it is peaceful rice of Asean, like china recently. Indonesia could join ot leave, it is right of Indonesia people like UK to Eurozon in Europa..

Yeah I like peaceful rice, I eat them. I don't think they will leave, no reason for this.

 

[DarkElf]

the new indonesia administration can do what it pleases unless it harms other nations interests. we are fed up, too, if indonesia claims, without them, nobody will survive in asean. in reality, nobody cares.

my friend, read the article again. haven´t you missed the news they sunk our fishing vessels?

we in Dai Viet adopted and copied many things from the Ming.

Do you want to slander Indonesia because Vietnam boats getting burned? So far you are trying to implicate that Indonesia harm other nation interest and want to get out from Asean, without any proof.

Are you really trying to say that, the burning of Vietnam fish thieve boat is harming the Vietnam nation interest? Basically Vietnam national interest is thieving their neighbour resource/invention?