Nike
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Indonesia Defence Forum
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deadlast
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-You forgot the third asterisk (***);
-The depth charges/mines should be depth charges/mines rails (no mines fitted);
-The dipping sonar should be Variable Depth Sonar (VDS) MG-329 " Sheksna" (active/passive VDS) not all of them fitted with this though;
-Hull sonar should be MG-332T "Argun" (active/passive hull sonar) with MG-16 high frequency sonar (underwater communication system);
-ESM should be 2x "Machta-P" / "Bizan 4B" passive ESM (NATO: "Watch Dog");
-IFF should be "Kremniy" IFF Transponder (NATO: "High Pole B");
-376 & 386 also got different FCR, namely Type 348 (TR47C) FCR and they also fitted with an EO/FLIR ball on top of the bridge.
Green Square: 2x "Machta-P" / "Bizan 4B" passive ESM (NATO: "Watch Dog")
Yellow Square: one of the two antenna for "Kremniy" IFF Transponder (NATO: "High Pole B")
Red Square: Denel Land System GA-1 (20x83mm)
Also, some ship got different secondary gun 20mm with/without manpad:
371 1x Oerlikon 20mm/70 (20x110mm RB) & 1x Twin Strela mount
372 2x Denel Land System GA-1 (20x83mm)
373 Removed
374 2x Denel Land System GI-2 (20x139mm)
375 2x Denel Land System GI-2 (20x139mm)
376 1x Twin Strela mount
377 2x Yugoimport-SDPR M71/08 (20x110mm)
378 1x Denel Land System GA-1 (20x83mm)
379 2x Oerlikon 20mm/70 (20x110mm RB)
381 1x Twin Strela mount
382 1x Denel Land System GI-2 (20x139mm)
383 2x Yugoimport-SDPR M71/08 (20x110mm)
385 1x Denel Land System GI-2 (20x139mm) & 1x Twin Strela mount
386 1x Denel Land System GI-2 (20x139mm) & 1x Twin Strela mount
372 2x Denel Land System GA-1 (20x83mm)
373 Removed
374 2x Denel Land System GI-2 (20x139mm)
375 2x Denel Land System GI-2 (20x139mm)
376 1x Twin Strela mount
377 2x Yugoimport-SDPR M71/08 (20x110mm)
378 1x Denel Land System GA-1 (20x83mm)
379 2x Oerlikon 20mm/70 (20x110mm RB)
381 1x Twin Strela mount
382 1x Denel Land System GI-2 (20x139mm)
383 2x Yugoimport-SDPR M71/08 (20x110mm)
385 1x Denel Land System GI-2 (20x139mm) & 1x Twin Strela mount
386 1x Denel Land System GI-2 (20x139mm) & 1x Twin Strela mount
Note: I don't know for sure whether all those equipment are still operational (even worse, relevant to modern naval engagement) or not, I just listed all of them due to the fact that they're still where they were at the present.
It's PINDAD Mo-3 81mm mortar
Last edited:
Nike
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Thanks man
Fl0gger
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Lol...krungu krungu malah di tabrak wae kui terutama design sectiion yg di kerjakan di PAL canggih canggih e teknisi sini seko nyawang wae iso dadi gambar tinggal eksekusi "plek" , wong bengkel indonesia kok di lawan jago sulap kabeh lulusan stm abang jago , tapi yen hura percoyo hura opo opo yo nan lolBisa, kecuali ada agreement dari dua pihak dimana pal diijinkan buat make design sigma tapi kayaknya hampir mustahil kalo gak nambah pkr atau nambah biaya "plus" ke damen
What waiver? According to some sources, caatsa should be triggered first then you get waiver just like India or Egypt. That means they should buy first the article then can ask for waiver.
Imho, no effective contract yet for Su-35.
Imho, no effective contract yet for Su-35.
Being-Art
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Jelas, biaya tambahan sebagai royaltinya [emoji23][emoji23]
trishna_amṛta
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Godverdomme!!! LoL
We should put a distance from them at defense related matter
On the contrary. We should have more out of them. They will sell us literally anything as long they it doesn't cause too much of domestic politic risk. Which mean, any manufacturing / contruction will be done here on our side rather because they do not wan't to be seen selling major tangible article. The only challenge is our negotiation team need to be more diligent in the contract drafting. The best of all is they have no problem whatsoever with Vergaan Onder Corruptie which is very compatible with our own kearifan lokal
Gundala
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Setuju sm yg diblng pak kasad, sdm-nya harus ditingkatkan di penerbad. Sebelum nambah yg canggih di benahi sarpras/harwat budget, dan yg paling penting sdm baik penerbang/teknisi. Salut buat pak jendral yg bisa terbuka di publik dgn statement beliau
Jatosint
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What about the crashed Hawk at Kampar, Riau? Will the AF published the investigation result just like the army?
=========================================================================================
Nike
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There is nice solution come from Chief of Army staff, to outsource complex heavy maintenance toward specialized firms like private industry or SOE the likes of Pelita Air services or GMF, as they are quite profesional as they must survive in commercial services and can't depend on government order.
That's what i am afraid of from "spreading" money policy in Papua. Better to lift off special autonom province status of them and Made scrutiny of the flow of budget in Papua.
Just say NO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://asiatimes.com/2020/10/indonesia-can-lead-the-way-just-say-no-to-us-china/
Indonesia can lead the way: ‘just say no’ to US, China
While other ASEAN states have allowed themselves to get dragged into US-China rivalry, Jakarta has largely pushed back
By MARK VALENCIA
OCTOBER 26, 2020
Indonesia’s non-alignment status is about to be sorely tested. The stated purpose of US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s upcoming visit is to discuss how Indonesia and the US can cooperate toward a “free and open Indo-Pacific,” the US construct to contain the “China threat.”
The US has been pressing many Southeast Asian states to join it in its efforts to contain China politically and militarily. Indonesia, the de facto leader of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, can show the way for the other members of the bloc by “just saying no” to requests from both the US and China that it judges contrary to its interests.
Indonesia recently rejected a US request to refuel and service America’s intelligence-collection planes targeting China. This comports with Jakarta’s non-aligned policy and its expressed desire to stay neutral in the US-China struggle for regional dominance. But the US is nothing if not persistent.
Indonesia has said “no” to China as well. In December 2019 when 63 Chinese fishing boats accompanied by three Coast Guard vessels entered Indonesia’s claimed exclusive economic zone (EEZ) off Natuna, Jakarta protested vehemently and even sent warships and jet fighters to the area.
Jakarta has also rebuffed China’s claim to certain rights in Indonesia’s EEZ as well as Beijing’s offer to discuss the issue, saying there is nothing to discuss because China’s claims are invalid.
The latest pressure from the US comes in the context of several in-your-face anti-China statements on the South China Sea by Pompeo. In essence he seems to be saying “you are with us or against us.” The US has also ramped up its military posture in the South China Sea to show it means business. China has responded in kind and more, both diplomatically and militarily, and the contest for the hearts and minds of Southeast Asian countries has reached a new level of intensity.
The US flies thousands of intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) missions every year in the South China Sea and along China’s coasts. These probes have increased markedly this year, with 36 in May, 49 in June and 67 in July.
Some fly out of the Philippines and Singapore. Malaysia has offered access for refueling US spy planes in Labuan. Despite denials, these countries are decidedly aligned in China’s eyes and thus are potential targets in a US-China military conflict.
Taiwan regularly gathers aerial intelligence over the East and South China Seas. The US is also considering supplying Vietnam with ISR planes that Hanoi will likely use to monitor Chinese activities and share the results.
These ISR probes are not just irritating “flies at a picnic,” as one Chinese military spokesman once described them. They are serious business. They probe China’s defenses on its occupied features in the South China Sea and along its coast searching for weaknesses.
Some of them target China’s nuclear-powered ballistic-missile submarines that are based at Yulin on Hainan and try to hide in the deep South China Sea. For China these submarines – and thus the probes to detect and potentially target them – have existential significance and consequences. They are China’s insurance against a first strike, something the US, unlike China, has not disavowed.
According to Peking University’s South China Sea Strategic Situation Probing Initiative (SCSPI), US Air Force electronic-intelligence aircraft have used identification codes assigned to Malaysian and Philippines civilian aircraft. If true, this is an unsafe practice and a violation of international norms.
It also puts the Philippines and Malaysia in a quandary. Philippine National Security Adviser Hermogenes Esperon Jr worried that the incident could “incriminate” Manila and requested an explanation from the US Embassy.
Facilitation of US intelligence probes against China only draws these countries deeper into the divide. For example, Malaysia has tried to hedge militarily between the two by allowing Chinese submarines and their escorts to refuel at Sepanggar Naval Base in Sabah. It said it was standard international procedure to welcome visits by foreign naval vessels “based on each nation’s request and upon diplomatic clearance.”
In the bigger picture, the US is trying to expand and enhance its China-containment perimeter and associated net of intelligence collection over the sea bordering China’s vulnerable underbelly.
The Philippines and Thailand are still US allies and facilitate US strategy by providing “places” for US military assets. Royal Thai Air Force bases are an important element in the Pentagon’s “forward positioning” strategy. Despite an on-again-off-again agreement between the US and the Philippines, there is a continuing US military presence at five bases there, including some near the South China Sea.
Malaysia’s Butterworth Royal Air force Base is used by US ally Australia and is the headquarters of the Five Power Defense Arrangements’ Integrated Area Defense System. This arrangement also includes US ally the UK, and Singapore. In this context, it is no coincidence that another US ally, Japan, is improving its defense ties with Vietnam and Indonesia.
The US has also made headway with non-aligned India regarding the South China Sea. India has allowed the US to refuel and obtain logistics support for an armed Poseidon P8 at Port Blair in the Andaman Islands. It is not clear if this was a one-off or the beginning of a pattern.
Given the resurgence of the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue – a clearly anti-China grouping – it may well be the latter. If so, China will likely consider that by its actions India is for practical purposes no longer “non-aligned.”
Now the US is leaning on Indonesia to join this anti-China containment club. As an indication of its need for partners in this endeavor, it waived its ban on Indonesian Defense Minister Probowo Subianto for human-rights violations by inviting him to Washington to discuss defense cooperation.
But Washington’s request to Jakarta regarding US spy planes was a bad idea because it opened the door for Indonesia to set an example on how to deal with the big powers. Greg Poling, an “expert” on the South China Sea at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the request was “an indication of how little folks in the US government understand Indonesia.”
There have been obvious signals that Indonesia would decline such a US request to aid it military, especially if it involved troops or assets on its soil. Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi has said, “We don’t want to get trapped by [the US-China] rivalry.”
Despite their profession of neutrality regarding the US-China struggle for dominance in the region, some ASEAN members are in essence aiding and abetting the US in its efforts to contain China. They may be fooling their publics, but they are not fooling the main protagonists, whose military strategists consider them either for or against them.
Indonesia is clearly still non-aligned. If it stays this way, ASEAN members should follow its lead.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://asiatimes.com/2020/10/indonesia-can-lead-the-way-just-say-no-to-us-china/
Indonesia can lead the way: ‘just say no’ to US, China
While other ASEAN states have allowed themselves to get dragged into US-China rivalry, Jakarta has largely pushed back
By MARK VALENCIA
OCTOBER 26, 2020
Indonesia’s non-alignment status is about to be sorely tested. The stated purpose of US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s upcoming visit is to discuss how Indonesia and the US can cooperate toward a “free and open Indo-Pacific,” the US construct to contain the “China threat.”
The US has been pressing many Southeast Asian states to join it in its efforts to contain China politically and militarily. Indonesia, the de facto leader of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, can show the way for the other members of the bloc by “just saying no” to requests from both the US and China that it judges contrary to its interests.
Indonesia recently rejected a US request to refuel and service America’s intelligence-collection planes targeting China. This comports with Jakarta’s non-aligned policy and its expressed desire to stay neutral in the US-China struggle for regional dominance. But the US is nothing if not persistent.
Indonesia has said “no” to China as well. In December 2019 when 63 Chinese fishing boats accompanied by three Coast Guard vessels entered Indonesia’s claimed exclusive economic zone (EEZ) off Natuna, Jakarta protested vehemently and even sent warships and jet fighters to the area.
Jakarta has also rebuffed China’s claim to certain rights in Indonesia’s EEZ as well as Beijing’s offer to discuss the issue, saying there is nothing to discuss because China’s claims are invalid.
The latest pressure from the US comes in the context of several in-your-face anti-China statements on the South China Sea by Pompeo. In essence he seems to be saying “you are with us or against us.” The US has also ramped up its military posture in the South China Sea to show it means business. China has responded in kind and more, both diplomatically and militarily, and the contest for the hearts and minds of Southeast Asian countries has reached a new level of intensity.
The US flies thousands of intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) missions every year in the South China Sea and along China’s coasts. These probes have increased markedly this year, with 36 in May, 49 in June and 67 in July.
Some fly out of the Philippines and Singapore. Malaysia has offered access for refueling US spy planes in Labuan. Despite denials, these countries are decidedly aligned in China’s eyes and thus are potential targets in a US-China military conflict.
Taiwan regularly gathers aerial intelligence over the East and South China Seas. The US is also considering supplying Vietnam with ISR planes that Hanoi will likely use to monitor Chinese activities and share the results.
These ISR probes are not just irritating “flies at a picnic,” as one Chinese military spokesman once described them. They are serious business. They probe China’s defenses on its occupied features in the South China Sea and along its coast searching for weaknesses.
Some of them target China’s nuclear-powered ballistic-missile submarines that are based at Yulin on Hainan and try to hide in the deep South China Sea. For China these submarines – and thus the probes to detect and potentially target them – have existential significance and consequences. They are China’s insurance against a first strike, something the US, unlike China, has not disavowed.
According to Peking University’s South China Sea Strategic Situation Probing Initiative (SCSPI), US Air Force electronic-intelligence aircraft have used identification codes assigned to Malaysian and Philippines civilian aircraft. If true, this is an unsafe practice and a violation of international norms.
It also puts the Philippines and Malaysia in a quandary. Philippine National Security Adviser Hermogenes Esperon Jr worried that the incident could “incriminate” Manila and requested an explanation from the US Embassy.
Facilitation of US intelligence probes against China only draws these countries deeper into the divide. For example, Malaysia has tried to hedge militarily between the two by allowing Chinese submarines and their escorts to refuel at Sepanggar Naval Base in Sabah. It said it was standard international procedure to welcome visits by foreign naval vessels “based on each nation’s request and upon diplomatic clearance.”
In the bigger picture, the US is trying to expand and enhance its China-containment perimeter and associated net of intelligence collection over the sea bordering China’s vulnerable underbelly.
The Philippines and Thailand are still US allies and facilitate US strategy by providing “places” for US military assets. Royal Thai Air Force bases are an important element in the Pentagon’s “forward positioning” strategy. Despite an on-again-off-again agreement between the US and the Philippines, there is a continuing US military presence at five bases there, including some near the South China Sea.
Malaysia’s Butterworth Royal Air force Base is used by US ally Australia and is the headquarters of the Five Power Defense Arrangements’ Integrated Area Defense System. This arrangement also includes US ally the UK, and Singapore. In this context, it is no coincidence that another US ally, Japan, is improving its defense ties with Vietnam and Indonesia.
The US has also made headway with non-aligned India regarding the South China Sea. India has allowed the US to refuel and obtain logistics support for an armed Poseidon P8 at Port Blair in the Andaman Islands. It is not clear if this was a one-off or the beginning of a pattern.
Given the resurgence of the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue – a clearly anti-China grouping – it may well be the latter. If so, China will likely consider that by its actions India is for practical purposes no longer “non-aligned.”
Now the US is leaning on Indonesia to join this anti-China containment club. As an indication of its need for partners in this endeavor, it waived its ban on Indonesian Defense Minister Probowo Subianto for human-rights violations by inviting him to Washington to discuss defense cooperation.
But Washington’s request to Jakarta regarding US spy planes was a bad idea because it opened the door for Indonesia to set an example on how to deal with the big powers. Greg Poling, an “expert” on the South China Sea at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the request was “an indication of how little folks in the US government understand Indonesia.”
There have been obvious signals that Indonesia would decline such a US request to aid it military, especially if it involved troops or assets on its soil. Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi has said, “We don’t want to get trapped by [the US-China] rivalry.”
Despite their profession of neutrality regarding the US-China struggle for dominance in the region, some ASEAN members are in essence aiding and abetting the US in its efforts to contain China. They may be fooling their publics, but they are not fooling the main protagonists, whose military strategists consider them either for or against them.
Indonesia is clearly still non-aligned. If it stays this way, ASEAN members should follow its lead.
Aghost132483
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Nike
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So far how many Badak had been built?
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