Indonesia Defence Forum

[Indos]

Nuclear armed country or nuclear powered country?

I mean nuclear armed country. Just wait until 15-20 years when our economy is predicted to reach 3-4 trillion dollar (significant geopolitics status) and Western power is receding their economic and geopolitical influence so that I think we will not get though sanction from them. This is also why it is important to be self sufficient in defense procurement so that any possible sanction will get less effect on us.

 

[NEKONEKO]

I mean nuclear armed country. Just wait until 15-20 years when our economy is predicted to reach 3-4 trillion dollar (significant geopolitics status) and Western power is receding their economic and geopolitical influence so that I think we will not get though sanction from them. This is also why it is important to be self sufficient in defense procurement so that any possible sanction will get less effect on us.

Everything need a starting point somewhere like having this kind of thought at first.

 

[mejikuhibiu]

I mean nuclear armed country. Just wait until 15-20 years when our economy is predicted to reach 3-4 trillion dollar (significant geopolitics status) and Western power is receding their economic and geopolitical influence so that I think we will not get though sanction from them. This is also why it is important to be self sufficient in defense procurement so that any possible sanction will get less effect on us.

We dont develop nuke as a weapon..but the other way we will develop nuke as power for electricity...

 

[HellFireIndo]

It's always nice to have options, like being nuclear powered, yet ready to be nuclear armed IF needed. I mean in the past US went from a very isolationist country by law into a full-blown forerunner of Western allied force, so i do not see any reason to religiously abide by the "nuclear-free zone" shit, by the right lobby we could keep having these Nukes. Post-WW2 humiliated France regained its' Prestige by conducting successful nuclear weapon test, Cuba went into big deal back then, North Korea are yet to be invaded by anyone, India and Pakistan still just bark to each other with no real will to commit full strength attack, all due to Nuclear, this is ultimate trump card of modern age. We need to have options, simply as that.

 

[Chestnut]

China wants to rebuild the "Middle Kingdom" hegemony over Asia, or even to Africa, where smaller countries would kowtow to "Chinese Emperor" and be tributary states under their influence. We are too big to be even be considered by them to be "tributary", we just cant, fearmongers in our country should realize this, population and GDP too big to be swallowed by their interest, same case with Japan and Australia. But again, being sorrounded by countries willingly to kowtow to China AND US at the same time is not a good situation either, they will use their influence to "contain" bigger countries they cannot subjugate, this already happens with India, being sorrounded by Pakistan, Myanmar and Sri Lanka that already seen extensive Chinese effort to steer their policies according to their agenda. We must be aware of this and strictly put China at bay for "economic cooperation" rather than outright "dependency", and dont even take side with US either, both of our geopolitical situation and mandated stance by constitution is to put balance on the crossroad of the region and yet being neutral at all times in doing so.

Also keep in mind, the US and Australia does not want Indonesia to Balkanize into several smaller states as it will be a geopolitical nightmare for them to have several rogue states neighboring Australia and their base in Darwin. China can't care less and would prefer to deal with small breakaway states than a large unitary state.

It's not a bad thing to get closer to China. Especially if it's win-win.



Nuclear power? I dont see that happening. Aussies not going for it. And besides... Who's your enemy?



Before you know it they'll be back colonizing you again. Be careful what you wish for. It's a good thing there's a strong China in the neighborhood.

So like, do you guys get .50 Yuan per post or per person that replies to your post positively?

 

[NEKONEKO]

So like, do you guys get .50 Yuan per post or per person that replies to your post positively?

More like .50 social credit point

 

[trishna_amṛta]

So like, do you guys get .50 Yuan per post or per person that replies to your post positively?

Good catch I'm gonna add him into my ever growing ignore list (its already approaching 100 names in my ignore list)

It's always nice to have options, like being nuclear powered, yet ready to be nuclear armed IF needed.

That will be Japan. They can turn into Nuclear armed state overnight (literally speaking here)

 

[nametag]

China Chases Indonesia’s Fishing Fleets, Staking Claim to Sea’s Riches
The Indonesian government appears to have backed away from confronting China, its largest trading partner. “Our fishermen feel scared,” one official said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/asia/Indonesia-south-china-sea-fishing.html

Sufficient muscle needed to deal with expansionist country, even after obtaining sudetenland that doesn't stop nazi Germany to expand more and invade other country.

Its already April btw, lets see if there will be any press conference from MoD or it will be postponed because of the pandemic.

Did you know that despite so many ilegal intrusion by China fishing ship and their coast guard, and Despite those rhetorics that we see on the media/television about how firm the government in handling them. Based on the data from KKP only 1 China ilegal fishing boat was captured during 2014-2019 (Jokowi first term) and only 3 captured China ilegal fishing ship are sunk during that same period. (The difference between ship captured and sunk is due to the fact that some of the ship that were sunk, were captured during SBY era in 2014). That seems odd, and I smell something fishy (no pun intended)

https://databoks.katadata.co.id/datapublish/2019/09/12/berapa-jumlah-kapal-ikan-yang-ditangkap-kkp

https://money.kompas.com/read/2020/...enteri-berapa-kapal-china-ditenggelamkan-susi

Why did the government arrested ilegal ship from other countries, but for china ilegal fishermen they only chased them away and didn't arrested those ship even when they aren't guarded by coast guard ship? I have my respect for Mrs Susi, And I don't think the problem lies in her. i feel that her work were being hampered and vetoed by someone with a position higher than her.

 

[striver44]

That seems odd, and I smell something fishy (no pun intended)

https://databoks.katadata.co.id/datapublish/2019/09/12/berapa-jumlah-kapal-ikan-yang-ditangkap-kkp

https://money.kompas.com/read/2020/...enteri-berapa-kapal-china-ditenggelamkan-susi

Why did the government arrested ilegal ship from other countries, but for china ilegal fishermen they only chased them away and didn't arrested those ship even when they aren't guarded by coast guard ship. I have my respect for Mrs Susi, And I don't think the problem lies in her. i feel that her work were being hampered and vetoed by someone with a position higher than her.

it's crystal clear already, we are now increasingly dependant economically with china, this situation must be reversed and made into priority. we're in fact almost already under china's orbit.

 

[Chestnut]

Did you know that despite so many ilegal intrusion by China fishing ship and their coast guard, and Despite those rhetorics that we see on the media/television about how firm the government in handling them. Based on the data from KKP only 1 China ilegal fishing boat was captured during 2014-2019 (Jokowi first term) and only 3 captured China ilegal fishing ship are sunk during that same period. (The difference between ship captured and sunk is due to the fact that some of the ship that were sunk, were captured during SBY era in 2014). That seems odd, and I smell something fishy (no pun intended)

https://databoks.katadata.co.id/datapublish/2019/09/12/berapa-jumlah-kapal-ikan-yang-ditangkap-kkp

https://money.kompas.com/read/2020/...enteri-berapa-kapal-china-ditenggelamkan-susi

Why did the government arrested ilegal ship from other countries, but for china ilegal fishermen they only chased them away and didn't arrested those ship even when they aren't guarded by coast guard ship. I have my respect for Mrs Susi, And I don't think the problem lies in her. i feel that her work were being hampered and vetoed by someone with a position higher than her.

Because doing something would hurt Daddy Luhut's wallet.

 

[Gundala]

nice dude. Australia's defense white paper specifically write Indonesia as a threat. then see what happens, nothing happens. we all want peace. we must be non-bloc. history tells us. about who should be identified as a threat, stakeholders daily meal. Indonesia's participation in world peace is a mandate for the Preamble of the 1945 Constitution of the Republic of Indonesia paragraph 4. Umno kid asking. I have the same question and wondering how? What will you do with mighty china?

Nothing on the surface for sure? Sadap on SBY term and see how they react? Even in PM hearing over thier senate he said he only did it for Country national interest. Timor leste? Aside from how our military operated there the closest we are going to war with afaik in orde baru era was with them. The night fly pass on our base by aussi? Like I said, each country have their own style but pretty much the same. Thinking that any of them would be our true friends would be silly and rather naive. There are some information that has been declassified about whats going on before and how the "real" relation went down. Perhaps if we look closer we can see the bottom line that they still consider us as a threat but for now focusing on bigger threat above us. Why? Because China can simply block the shipping line before entering Indonesia and make aussie miserable indeed. If China back down which country do you think they going to be focusing at? I bet a dollar it will be us again

Most of them dont want to see us disintegrate, too much at stake. But on the other note they also dont want us to be strong and dominant in the region. I rest my case

 

[striver44]

the enemy of my enemy is my friend, that's now the case between our country, Aussie's, China and the USA.

 

[NEKONEKO]

That will be Japan. They can turn into Nuclear armed state overnight (literally speaking here)

Like literally literally?
If its just dirty bomb then yuss, but true nukes?

the enemy of my enemy is my friend, that's now the case between our country, Aussie's, China and the USA.

The enemy of my enemy is not yet my enemy.

 

[striver44]

The enemy of my enemy is not yet my enemy.

it will eventually

 

[Chaplin009x]

Which Australia defense white paper @Chaplin009x ? They even specifically said that they support the modernization of our armed forces


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Nothing on the surface for sure? Sadap on SBY term and see how they react? Even in PM hearing over thier senate he said he only did it for Country national interest. Timor leste? Aside from how our military operated there the closest we are going to war with afaik in orde baru era was with them. The night fly pass on our base by aussi? Like I said, each country have their own style but pretty much the same. Thinking that any of them would be our true friends would be silly and rather naive. There are some information that has been declassified about whats going on before and how the "real" relation went down. Perhaps if we look closer we can see the bottom line that they still consider us as a threat but for now focusing on bigger threat above us. Why? Because China can simply block the shipping line before entering Indonesia and make aussie miserable indeed. If China back down which country do you think they going to be focusing at? I bet a dollar it will be us again

Most of them dont want to see us disintegrate, too much at stake. But on the other note they also dont want us to be strong and dominant in the region. I rest my case

Nais
At the end it's just a matter of their own national interests. keep your friends close and your enemies closer.