Indonesia Defence Forum

[Chestnut]

not all broken maybe few still airworthy

No, that's not what happened.

Like I said earlier, the Royal Netherlands Air Force was giving us limited spare parts support; Which they wouldn't have done unless the US gave them the go ahead.

 

[Indos]

Actually Nike, the reason our F-16's were still flying to intercept the Navy Hornets back then was because of clandestine support from the Dutch Air Force, which they wouldn't have done unless the US didn't give them the go ahead. Basically the Dutch gave us a lot of their spare parts for their fleet of F-16's so that we can keep a certain amount flying during the embargo.

.

Can you give us any source saying that Netherland help us with F16 spare part when we were under US embargo ? The truth is only 2 F16 which can still fly and the rest are cannibalized to make those 2 can still fly.

 

[Chestnut]

Can you give us any source saying that Netherland help us with F16 spare part when we were under US embargo ? The truth is only 2 F16 which can still fly and the rest are cannibalized to make those 2 can still fly.

It was in an Teknologi Strategi Militer article from back then, an AU official confirmed it.

 

[Raduga]

Can you give us any source saying that Netherland help us with F16 spare part when we were under US embargo ? The truth is only 2 F16 which can still fly and the rest are cannibalized to make those 2 can still fly.

http://www.daedalus.eu/about-daedalus/our-customers/

even though still , im in the group that against "All US made plane" for our air fleet , we don't know if dassault maybe have some persuading offer in their sleeves for offset implementation etc .

 

[Being-Art]

http://www.daedalus.eu/about-daedalus/our-customers/
View attachment 613808
View attachment 613810

even though still , im in the group that against "All US made plane" for our air fleet , we don't know if dassault maybe have some persuading offer in their sleeves for offset implementation etc .

^True as usual, thanks to a third party (from Europe because the embargo from Europe is only a few months), only one F-16 is grounded

 

[Whizzack]

Okay some questions :
1. What kind of sanctions can we reasonably expect under CAATSA..? Chestnut keeps mentioning it as if it's the end of the world and we will soon be the second Iran.. How true is that?
2. Are there any other country that has been sanctioned under CAATSA..? What are their sanctions..?
3. What benefits are there for the SEA region, Australia and the US for heavily sanctioning us under CAATSA..? Especially in the context of balance of power in the SCS or the Chinese expansion in general..?
4. If we simply bow to US pressure now, what are the consequences for us in the future now that the US knows we won't resist..? What if in the future the US says we can no longer buy Chinese arms or electronics (Huawei etc) or even limit trade in other sectors..? Will we say yes too..? Where will it stop?

 

[Nike]

I am just wanna to said of other possibility , what if it is actually Indonesia itself who want to terminate the deal and just using CAATSA and US pressure as pretext for saving face?

The possibility is quite high as the deal itself been signed since two years ago, and there is no plan and concrete action to put the contract into active, there is always ways to finance the scheme, including using Chinese bank or so on like what Myanmar do with their recent Flanker deal. Indonesia keep dragging down the topics, not even put it into priority list and i am notice there is power struggle in air force /ministry regarding about the deal signed by old guard of Megawati clan, and new MoD and his cohorts is more open minded and focusing toward Network centric and data sharing prospect thus giving momentum to abort the deals....

 

[umigami]

I am just wanna to said of other possibility , what if it is actually Indonesia itself who want to terminate the deal and just using CAATSA and US pressure as pretext for saving face?

The possibility is quite high as the deal itself been signed since two years ago, and there is no plan and concrete action to put the contract into active, there is always ways to finance the scheme, including using Chinese bank or so on like what Myanmar do with their recent Flanker deal. Indonesia keep dragging down the topics, not even put it into priority list and i am notice there is power struggle in air force /ministry regarding about the deal signed by old guard of Megawati clan, and new MoD and his cohorts is more open minded and focusing toward Network centric and data sharing prospect thus giving momentum to abort the deals....

Yeah, I do think so. Thinking about that too but just keep if for myself.
Infact some weird things happen surrounding Indonesian Sukhoi:
- 2 Su30 got locked by unknown entity (or by themself?)
- russian technicians got poisoned with spiritus

How about the air force themself?
Honestly Do they really want it or not?

 

[Chestnut]

^True as usual, thanks to a third party (from Europe because the embargo from Europe is only a few months), only one F-16 is grounded

The third party only did it because of a nod of approval from the US.

Yeah, I do think so. Thinking about that too but just keep if for myself.
Infact some weird things happen surrounding Indonesian Sukhoi:
- 2 Su30 got locked by unknown entity (or by themself?)
- russian technicians got poisoned with spiritus

How about the air force themself?
Honestly Do they really want it or not?

The Air Force itself does not like the Flankers. Back in 2003 when the embargo was still fresh, they welcomed them with open arms as they sorely needed air frames for patrols and sorties. However after a decade of operating them the Air Force are very much within the US equipment camp. For example back when the Fokker F-27 replacement was being procured, the Air Force highly preferred the C-27J over the CN-295 due to parts and pilot commonality with the Hercules, the CN-295 only got picked because of pressure from parliament. Another example would be hoe the Air Force is deadset on getting C-130J's over the A400M's thus leading the government to instead give them to Pelita and other SOE's like Pertamina. Had the financial crisis not happened, the majority of our fleet would consist of Hawk 200's and F-16's. The Air Force is very much western minded.

All of the complaints about the Flankers (lack of ToT or MRO, being hard to maintain, costly to operate, unable to datalink with anything else throughout the national inventory, etc.) all come from sources within the Air Force. The only people who want the Flankers are people within the parliament as the barter-trade scheme allows for it to be easily corrupted. If you looks closely at which companies would benefit from the Su-35 barter deal, you can check that the majority of the companies listed are those who have ties to high ranking members of the Jokowi administration and the MPR. They don't care whether or not the Air Force can use them as a deterrent; They don't care that Russian deals almost never benefit the local defense industries; all they care about are their own pockets.

 

[Nike]

Yeah, I do think so. Thinking about that too but just keep if for myself.
Infact some weird things happen surrounding Indonesian Sukhoi:
- 2 Su30 got locked by unknown entity (or by themself?)
- russian technicians got poisoned with spiritus

How about the air force themself?
Honestly Do they really want it or not?

Russian dies because of alcohol is very very usual, they mostly drink alcohol beverage more than pure water. Not to mention their eagerness to trying local "wisdom"!!

Our air force quite like the sukhoi especially their weapon loads capacity, long range coverage , but not for their maintenance hussle and now coupled with C4ISR issue currently being pursued. Thats dead weight actually. Though, I am more into to retire them naturally after they spent their living hours , they are good for carpet bombing.

For the Air Force i hope they got another heavy hitter bomb truck like Su 35/30, F 15 Eagle/ X come into my mind.

Or Boeing Super Hornet will do the jobs , ten 1000 lbs GBU 32 JDAM, plus two sidewinder and targeting pod near centerline rear hardening point plus fuel tank in centerline point. Thats a killer baby!!! And they had lower operational cost compared to Sukhoi or F15, plus they are hardy bastard

 

[Chestnut]

Russian dies because of alcohol is very very usual, they mostly drink alcohol beverage more than pure water. Not to mention their eagerness to trying local "wisdom"!!

Our air force quite like the sukhoi especially their weapon loads capacity, long range coverage , but not for their maintenance hussle and now coupled with C4ISR issue currently being pursued. Thats dead weight actually. Though, I am more into to retire them naturally after they spent their living hours , they are good for carpet bombing.

For the Air Force i hope they got another heavy hitter bomb truck like Su 35/30, F 15 Eagle/ X come into my mind.

Or Boeing Super Hornet will do the jobs , ten 1000 lbs GBU 32 JDAM, plus two sidewinder and targeting pod near centerline rear hardening point plus fuel tank in centerline point. Thats a killer baby!!! And they had lower operational cost compared to Sukhoi or F15, plus they are hardy bastard

View attachment 613890

A lot cheaper to procure then the Su-35 even. Through loans under the US's Foreign Military Sales program, the Kuwait Air Force procured 22 F/A-18E's and 8 F/A-18F's along with associated weapons and equipment for $1.5 billion. Couple that with the KC-46, the E-7A, and the P-8 you could give the TNI-AU cost efficient, world class capability. No other company does better bulk deals than Boeing.

https://news.usni.org/2018/06/28/kuwait-finalizes-contract-for-28-super-hornets

 

[Being-Art]

The third party only did it because of a nod of approval from the US.


The Air Force itself does not like the Flankers. Back in 2003 when the embargo was still fresh, they welcomed them with open arms as they sorely needed air frames for patrols and sorties. However after a decade of operating them the Air Force are very much within the US equipment camp. For example back when the Fokker F-27 replacement was being procured, the Air Force highly preferred the C-27J over the CN-295 due to parts and pilot commonality with the Hercules, the CN-295 only got picked because of pressure from parliament. Another example would be hoe the Air Force is deadset on getting C-130J's over the A400M's thus leading the government to instead give them to Pelita and other SOE's like Pertamina. Had the financial crisis not happened, the majority of our fleet would consist of Hawk 200's and F-16's. The Air Force is very much western minded.

All of the complaints about the Flankers (lack of ToT or MRO, being hard to maintain, costly to operate, unable to datalink with anything else throughout the national inventory, etc.) all come from sources within the Air Force. The only people who want the Flankers are people within the parliament as the barter-trade scheme allows for it to be easily corrupted. If you looks closely at which companies would benefit from the Su-35 barter deal, you can check that the majority of the companies listed are those who have ties to high ranking members of the Jokowi administration and the MPR. They don't care whether or not the Air Force can use them as a deterrent; They don't care that Russian deals almost never benefit the local defense industries; all they care about are their own pockets.

Oh yeah which is funnier when the First Sukhoi Batch arrives as many as 4 units, there is only 1 Auxiliary Power Unit. so the aircraft must be ignited one by one using 1 APU.

 

[umigami]

Any news about military satellite program with Airbus?
Still on going?

 

[Chaplin009x]

The conversation goes too far and there is a lot of speculation and even freestyle. If entering politics that means TNI reform is still in doubt, while you elect your own president. back about fighter planes. actually the most important thing for Indonesia or TNI is if all TNI AU fighter jets use US made fighter jets. what is the Guarantee from mickey mouse, US no longer embargoing Indonesia AGAIN? politics are uncertain.

 

[Nike]

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