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Indonesia Defence Forum

Why are alutsista so goddamn expensive these days?


Because we dont acquire much when they are still cheaper in the past, and with the ends of Cold war there is less incentive for countries to build arms in very large number so the research and production prices to breaking points come very expensive, btw, just for example newly built K2 black panther is very expensive comparable to le clerc, both of them is built in small number, compared to Leopard 2 families which the new ones can be acquire for 7 million us dollar with large support package because their relatively large and continuity build, another example is why US made Apache relatively cheaper compared to Tiger and T129, and thats with more complex avionic and combat system is because Apache came in very large number. The same can be said with why UK type 45 destroyer is expensive tools compared to more affordable US arleigh burke

Btw, the thing is we need more awareness from all elements to support our defense. Meanwhile there is no clear cut or cheat on how to build arms indigenously, we can learn by example from several countries with sizeable defense industry albeit limitation from major power, they are South Africa, South Korea, Cheko, Turkey and Brazil. Several old supplier like Italy and French is come more or less can be engaged for more cooperation. Bulgarian , Serbian , Ukraina and Croat had niche industry in defense sector too in which we can trying to get something
 
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He was wrong obviously, 32 viper+armament=6-7 billion US$ doesn't even make any sense.

For example with RoC 66 viper contract including spare part,munition&engine. Costing at US$ 8 bn while our purchase only half of Taiwan order.

What's with him and US tho.

Even Twitter Roast And Kinda Make A Joke On Him.
I also made a sarcasm on his 'Sales Language' and In the Middle of the night the same day i commented on his tweet, He Dm Me Like this tho LMAO
Screenshot_20200124-020358~2.png


I also love also how Alman pretty much lately show something biased towards european OEM rather than being neutral, and sometimes he miscalculated or maybe based on his calculation that pretty much inflated. I remember janes said this tho. which pretty much make sense to me due to Indonesia nature of f16 use and also negotiation skill.
Screenshot_20200126-200817~2.png
 
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Even Twitter Roast And Kinda Make A Joke On Him.
I also made a sarcasm on his 'Sales Language' and In the Middle of the night the same day i commented on his tweet, He Dm Me Like this tho LMAO View attachment 601717

I also love also how Alman pretty much lately show something biased towards european OEM rather than being neutral, and sometimes he miscalculated or maybe based on his calculation that pretty much inflated. I remember janes said this tho. which pretty much make sense to me due to Indonesia nature of f16 use and also negotiation skill.View attachment 601718
Moreover, to add to your point there was also news report from Reuters 2 years ago that said:
U.S. officials said Indonesia asked for pricing for an additional 48 F-16 aircraft, a deal which could be worth $4.5 billion.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ax-limits-on-its-special-forces-idUSKBN1FC0WG
Now, the wording "could be worth" can be translated as the maximum amount of the contract for 48 planes is $4.5 billion or less. So $4 billion for 32 planes does seem a bit excessive.
 
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for offset i in personal much prefer for Indonesia to get center of repairing maintenance and major overhauling works and workshop along with license production of fast moving spare parts and components for many military equipments we will boughts, thats will bring many benefits immediately including economy opportunity and parts of global supply chain and better understanding for military equipments inner working. KAI and TAI first get their homework done in this manner, capability to build spare parts and supply components is vital actually and Indonesia defense industry is very weak in this regard
 
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Moreover, to add to your point there was also news report from Reuters 2 years ago that said:
Now, the wording "could be worth" can be translated as the maximum amount of the contract for 48 planes is $4.5 billion or less. So $4 billion for 32 planes does seem a bit excessive.

I definitely agree on that.

is everyone knows about the procurement status of army's chinook?
 
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I definitely agree on that.

is everyone knows about the procurement status of army's chinook?
lets wait for the next week , the mindef probably will give a clear insight for which contract is already effective or even near effective .
 
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Just curious, why Indonesia spends invest good amount in Defence budget? Your neighbor hood is not like ours in India...If i am not wrong, apart from minor issues like South China sea, you do not have any as such challenging security issue..
 
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minor issues like South China sea, you do not have any as such challenging security issue..
Minor he said.

War doesn't need agreement from both sides. Doesn't matter what Poland want, if Germany want war, then they will be on war. Doesn't matter what Finland want, if Soviet want war, then they will be on war, false flag attack as casus belli is nothing new. Having large and strong neighbor that is aggressive should make ones careful.

Always with open arms and smile, but kriss is always ready when needed.
When the conflict erupt we will be ready. But of course, peace is priority.
 
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Just curious, why Indonesia spends invest good amount in Defence budget? Your neighbor hood is not like ours in India...If i am not wrong, apart from minor issues like South China sea, you do not have any as such challenging security issue..

Thats all be worse for us compared to Pakistan, Pakistan only had India as her large neighbours meanwhile Indonesia got China in which had put large military bases and Naval presence in South China Sea and numerous large coast guard ships and Naval Warships and seems eager to cross our Naval border, India had large military outpost in Andaman and Nicobar meanwhile our Australian neighbour keep building their Navy
 
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Just take his tweet with a grain of salt. He was wrong about the C-130J.

But if eventually it is true than we should buy F-35 with that price.
Keep in mind that $140 mil includes all the appropriate supporting equipment minus the weapons, things such as spare parts, training, multiyear support contracts are included in the price. If you put the F-35 in the same spotlight it would cost A LOT more than $140 per unit. The reason the price ballooned up from the initial $2 bil is likely because the air force also wanted the extra corresponding equipment to go with the deal.

When you buy a fighter jet you don't just buy the plane, you have to buy the supporting infrastructure. This is why I have been vehemently against buying the Rafale over the Vipers. It would cost a lot more to operate than the fly-away cost that they claim to be.
 
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Thats all be worse for us compared to Pakistan, Pakistan only had India as her large neighbours meanwhile Indonesia got China in which had put large military bases and Naval presence in South China Sea and numerous large coast guard ships and Naval Warships and seems eager to cross our Naval border, India had large military outpost in Andaman and Nicobar meanwhile our Australian neighbour keep building their Navy
It's worse for India and Pakistan because they are 2 nuclear armed states with a history of skirmishes, our problems aren't the same compared to them.
 
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INDONESIA
MENKO POLHUKAM TOLAK TAWARAN BANTUAN DUBES AS UNTUK ATASI PERSOALAN NATUNA
27 JANUARI 2020 DIANEKO_LC TINGGALKAN KOMENTAR
Menteri Koordinator Bidang Politik, Hukum, dan Keamanan (Menko Polhukam) Mahfud MD mengatakan, saat ini Indonesia tidak memerlukan bantuan dari negara mana pun untuk mengatasi persoalan di Perairan Natuna.

Dilansir dari laman Kompas (25/ 1/ 2020), Ia bahkan mengaku telah menolak bantuan dari Amerika Serikat yang berniat membantu Indonesia menangani polemik dengan China di kawasan Laut China Selatan.

Pernyataan itu disampaikan Mahfud ketika bertemu dengan Duta Besar AS untuk Indonesia, Joseph Donovan Jr.

“Saya bilang enggak perlu kerja sama dengan Amerika soal urusan itu,” kata Mahfud di kantor PB Nahdlatul Ulama, Jakarta, Sabtu (25/1/2020).

Menurut Mahfud MD, jika Indonesia menerima bantuan dari AS, maka bisa saja terjadi konflik dengan China.

Mahfud menegaskan sikap Indonesia tegas bahwa tidak pernah mengakui Nine-Dash Line atau sembilan garis putus-putus di Laut China Selatan seperti klaim China.

Ia mengatakan, Indonesia berpegang pada Konvensi United Nations Convention on The Law of The Sea (UNCLOS) 1982 yang menyatakan kawasan perairan itu merupakan bagian dari Zona Ekonomi Eksklusif (ZEE) Indonesia.



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“Kalau kita kerja sama dengan Amerika, berarti kita perang dengan China. Padahal kita tidak (bersengketa). Pokoknya kita usir,” ujar Mahfud MD.

“Sehingga kita tidak terjebak pada perang proksi. Kita enggak mau, enggak ada perundingan dengan China. Enggak perlu bantuan (AS),” kata dia.

Sebelumnya, Duta Besar China untuk Indonesia, Xiao Qian mengatakan, tidak ada perselisihan antara China dengan Indonesia ihwal teritorial.

Persoalan yang belakangan ini mencuat terkait perairan Natuna, kata dia, pada dasarnya berkaitan dengan overlapping atau tumpang tindih area perairan.

Hal ini disampaikan Xiao Qian usai bertemu dengan anggota Komisi I DPR, Syarief Hasan, di Kompleks Parlemen, Senayan, Jakarta, Jumat (24/1/2020).

“Pertama, tidak ada perselisihan antara Indonesia dengan China terkait teritorial kita,” kata Xiao Qian.

“Perselisihan sebenarnya adalah karena ada overlapping area perairan. Dan ini berbeda dari perselisihan teritorial,” tuturnya.

Xiao Qian mengatakan, China sepenuhnya mengakui bahwa Natuna adalah milik Indonesia. China pun tidak pernah mempersoalkan itu. Begitupun, China memiliki teritori sendiri yang tidak pernah dipersoalkan oleh Indonesia.



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Meski ada perbedaan pandangan antara China dengan Indonesia atas hal ini, Xiao Qian mengatakan hal tersebut tak jadi masalah.

“Dan dari pandangan yang berbeda tentang isu ini, kita akan membicarakan persoalan ini di negara kita melalui dialog diplomatik, seperti yang kita lakukan sebelumnya. Pembicaraan di antara para dubes, menteri, kita akan membicarakan itu,” ujarnya.

Photo: ATLANTIC OCEAN (July 23, 2008) The aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) navigates in the Atlantic Ocean during integrated French and American carrier qualifications and cyclic flight operations. The Theodore Roosevelt Carrier Strike Group is participating in Joint Task Force Exercise “Operation Brimstone” off the Atlantic coast. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Jonathan Snyder (Released)

Editor: (D.E.S)

Lapan Ajukan Rp 431 Milyar untuk Pembuatan N219 Amphibi

27 Januari 2020



Pesawat amfibi N219A (al images : Lapan)

Lapan Garap Pesawat Amphibi, Target 2024 Bisa Terbang Perdana

PROKAL.CO, JAKARTA– Lembaga Penerbangan dan Antariksa Nasional (Lapan) terus menggarap proyek pesawat nasional. Setelah sebelumnya sukses dengan pesawat N219, saat ini Lapan mengerjakan pesawat serupa, tapi dengan kemampuan di darat dan perairan (amfibi).

Lapan memberi nama pesawat baru itu N219 Amphibi (N219A). Kepala Pusat Teknologi Penerbangan (Pustekbang) Lapan Gunawan Setyo Prabowo menyatakan, anggaran pembuatan pesawat itu dimulai tahun ini. ’’Kita sudah mau kontrak dengan vendor float-nya,’’ katanya (18/1).

Dia menuturkan, pembuatan pesawat amfibi itu sekaligus menunggu proses sertifikasi (type certificate/TC) dari Kementerian Perhubungan (Kemenhub). Untuk anggaran pembuatan pesawat N219A, Lapan mengajukan biaya Rp 431 miliar.




’’(Target, Red) deliver-nya 2024, sesuai program,’’ jelasnya. Maksud target deliver itu adalah pesawat sudah jadi dan telah mendapat amandemen atau sertifikat TC dari Kemenhub. Gunawan mengatakan, Lapan optimistis dengan target tersebut.

Dia menyebutkan bahwa pesawat N219A bisa difungsikan sebagai armada penerbangan perintis. Terutama di daerah khusus seperti pegunungan, pesisir pantai, danau, serta daerah terdepan, terluar, dan tertinggal (3T) lainnya. Gunawan juga menjelaskan bahwa program N219 dikerjakan SDM serta insinyur muda yang memiliki pengalaman. Industri komponen dalam negeri juga dilibatkan.

Menurut dia, pangsa pasar pesawat amfibi di Asia-Pasifik sangat bagus karena sesuai dengan letak geografisnya yang didominasi negara-negara kepulauan. ’’Pengembangan pesawat amfibi tentu memiliki isu-isu berbeda dibanding dengan pesawat pada umumnya,’’ katanya. Sejumlah tahapan pengkajian floating landing gear, training pilot, sertifikasi, dan suku cadang segera dipersiapkan dengan baik.




’’Indonesia membutuhkan moda transportasi yang cepat dan efisien dalam mendukung destinasi wisata, khususnya untuk konektivitas pulau-pulau kecil,’’ papar Kepala Lapan Thomas Djamaluddin.

Menurut dia, pesatnya pembangunan bandara di sejumlah daerah dirasakan kurang dan belum bisa mewadahi daerah yang lokasinya sempit serta konturnya tidak memungkinkan. Karena itu, pesawat amfibi bisa menjadi pilihan untuk menjangkau daerah khusus tersebut.

Thomas menyampaikan, proyek pesawat N219 masuk program prioritas riset nasional (PRN). Dalam program pesawat transportasi nasional itu tidak akan ada duplikasi, baik penelitian maupun pengembangannya. Sementara itu, untuk pesawat N219A, dia berharap ada sinergi yang lebih luas di sejumlah kementerian dan lembaga. Tujuannya, potensi nasional bisa dimanfaatkan dan pola penganggaran tidak terkotak-kotak atau sektoral. Dengan demikian, penggunaan anggaran lebih efisien dan dapat ditingkatkan.

(ProKal)
 
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