Indonesia Defence Forum

[flamer84]

That's deal also include license fees for Indonesian side to build up to 20 ships, SIGMA class is apparently has been designed for Indonesian custom and need and the discussion for this project has been started since 1996. But the project must to be halted because of Asia Economic Crisis back in 1998. Thus SIGMA project starting to gain the momentum since 2004 and resulted in the deal for Damen to build 4 units Sigma Class Corvette for Indonesian Navy in 2006.

Thank you for the info.The reason i've asked is because we're paying some 100 million euros/piece (135 million $) to upgrade some old Type 22 frigates we've bought in the 2000's.When i say upgrade i mean fitting them with anti ship,AA missiles,torpedoes,new radars as we bought them empty....yes,we have 5000 ton frigates equipped only with guns for some 8-10 years now.

It's clear now that we've (we are still) being ripped off.We could have easily bought these Sigma frigates,especially since we have a Damen shipyard in our country,which is currently building the new Dutch 28.000 tons multi purpose support ship.

The ship is planned to replace both HNLMS Zuiderkruis scrapped in 2012 and HNLMS Amsterdam to be sold in 2016 replenishment oilers. The new JSS is scheduled to enter service by 2015.[2] At 204.7 metres (672 ft) she will be the largest ship in service in the Netherlands navy. She was built at the Damen yard inGalati, Romania.

Not to mention that 2400 ton stealth frigates such as the Sigma are better suited for the medium sized Black Sea then 4500+ tons 70's model dinosaurs such as the type 22's.And from what i see now for 2 brand new,better equipped ships the difference would have only been only some 100 million euros,plus the ships built in our own country.Damn...we're so corrupt ans stupid...

 

[Nike]

Thank you for the info.The reason i've asked is because we're paying some 100 million euros/piece (135 million $) to upgrade some old Type 22 frigates we've bought in the 2000's.When i say upgrade i mean fitting them with anti ship,AA missiles,torpedoes,new radars as we bought them empty....yes,we have 5000 ton frigates equipped only with guns for some 8-10 years now.

It's clear now that we've (we are still) being ripped off.We could have easily bought these Sigma frigates,especially since we have a Damen shipyard in our country,which is currently building the new Dutch 28.000 tons multi purpose support ship.



Not to mention that 2400 ton stealth frigates such as the Sigma are better suited for the medium sized Black Sea then 4500+ tons 70's model dinosaurs such as the type 22's.And from what i see now for 2 brand new,better equipped ships the difference would have only been only some 100 million euros,plus the ships built in our own country.Damn...we're so corrupt ans stupid...

I Don't think your Naval planner is wrong entirely, sometimes bigger platform warship has their unique perks. Bigger platform means bigger space for future modifications and rooms to add more sensor suit, armament, more logistics and fuel to operate in open seas and so on. About Type 22 is suit or not to dwell in Black Sea, i think your Naval Planner has their own reason to chose those ships.

My self has routinely expressing that Indonesian Navy should to procure Warships with tonnage more than 4000 gross ton, a real frigate or destroyer. We had our conditions in which our currents fleet cannot cope all of our potential threat. But for starting point to our self sufficiently in armament industry, SIGMA Platform is one of the best offer we can get right now.

 

[flamer84]

I Don't think your Naval planner is wrong entirely, sometimes bigger platform warship has their unique perks. Bigger platform means bigger space for future modifications and rooms to add more sensor suit, armament, more logistics and fuel to operate in open seas and so on. About Type 22 is suit or not to dwell in Black Sea, i think your Naval Planner has their own reason to chose those ships.

My self has routinely expressing that Indonesian Navy should to procure Warships with tonnage more than 4000 gross ton, a real frigate or destroyer. We had our conditions in which our currents fleet cannot cope all of our potential threat. But for starting point to our self sufficiently in armament industry, SIGMA Platform is one of the best offer we can get right now.

Yes but Indonesia has so much ocean space to defend we have to operate in the much smaller Black Sea and have a small coast line.Small,stealthy ships make much more sense.

 

[nufix]

Other reasons may be anything from France is damnly expensive and the Malaysia officer picks up more from every project.

..and the so called "Songlap", it is a kind of price bubling by certain people of certain position. Malaysia's major procurements were troubled by this thing, like Scorpene deal.

 

[Nike]

Yes but Indonesia has so much ocean space to defend we have to operate in the much smaller Black Sea and have a small coast line.Small,stealthy ships make much more sense.

I will not trying to argue, but as an NATO member, Romania has their own role in NATO too, so sometimes they need to project their Naval Capability with other member. And i wonder, why Turkey and Greece operating the same sizes of warship like your Type 22 like OHP and MEKO class considering their Geographical areas.

 

[flamer84]

I will not trying to argue, but as an NATO member, Romania has their own role in NATO too, so sometimes they need to project their Naval Capability with other member. And i wonder, why Turkey and Greece operating the same sizes of warship like your Type 22 like OHP and MEKO class considering their Geographical areas.

Turkey and Greece have a greater area to operate,the Mediteranean Sea.

 

[aliaselin]

592 from Indonesia taking part in Chinese Navy Day.
I'm wondering why it doesn't have a gun.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

592 from Indonesia taking part in Chinese Navy Day.
I'm wondering why it doesn't have a gun.
View attachment 25282

Indonesia's Doctrine...

 

[nufix]

592 from Indonesia taking part in Chinese Navy Day.
I'm wondering why it doesn't have a gun.
View attachment 25282

the naval commisioner probably think that it is not a combatant ship and will always be protected by a convoy, thus they did not equip it with a proper naval gun. But still though I think that a naval gun is a must for an LPD ship, considering that even our naval hospital ship got gun.

In comparison to the LPD which always got some ships guarding its tails, like during the operation in Somalian waters

 

[Nike]

Indonesia's Doctrine...

rather than doctrine, i will say it clearly, "money"

The Navy more prefer to allocate their money to arming surface combatant warship such as KCR 60 and such than to transport warship such as this LPD

 

[cnleio]

592 from Indonesia taking part in Chinese Navy Day.
I'm wondering why it doesn't have a gun.

For a LPD, it's not matter whether install a gun. They have Marines on board.

 

[Nike]

For a LPD, it's not matter whether install a gun. They have Marines on board.

And amphibious assault tank with Helicopter units to do their job properly

 

[katarabhumi]

@Indonesian members

Any news on our Crocodile submarine project?.. They had promised the first prototype will be completed in 2013.. it is 2014 now.

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

hello, Jakartans@PkDef reporting in
Please allow me to join this discussion

 

[Indos]

hello, Jakartans@PkDef reporting in
Please allow me to join this discussion

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