Indonesia Defence Forum

[Kucing itu imut]

I wonder myself how back in 2012 we got ourself in such a bad contract with Damen Schelde. I mean look, the scope of work were just 4%, what do we learn by 4% ? Our involvement was simply on labour force, no further. Project managements, supervisions were all handled by direct Dutch supervisors and rumour spoke that our naval engineers were given only lectures and seminar like class instead of " learning by doing " the way South Korean provided us. I'm sceptical that we could build ALONE combatant surface vessel beyond OPV, OPV is a basic however when it comes to corvette with all complex subsystems and to integrate them all coherent under 1 platform, we're still far away from that capabillity. That contract with Damen Schelde years ago worth investigated and questionable to me.

In case of not learning by doing, isn't it the same with the submarine project.

 

[Cromwell]

In case of not learning by doing, isn't it the same with the submarine project.

In case " same with the submarine ". Our naval engineers & technicians in South Korea were involved in the design & management systems outside attending classes since this is the 1st time we study submarine manufacturing process. As speaking of South Korean, don't get entirely " blinded " by submarine, you forget about LPD. Though there's an unsettling rumour of our submarines, not about ToT process however something else which i won't say here because i'm still unsure and if it's proven then too embarassing to publish here.

 

[umigami]

@Cromwell is it about their performance?
Is it that bad?

 

[Cromwell]

@Cromwell is it about their performance?
Is it that bad?

No, something else which i hope isn't true

 

[Raduga]

No, something else which i hope isn't true

Something to do with "corruption" ? Or about the loan ?

 

[Cromwell]

Something to do with "corruption" ? Or about the loan ?

Something i'd rather keep for myself untill it's proven otherwise. Your speculations could be true, but that's not the issue i meant.

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

Something to do with "corruption" ? Or about the loan ?

@Cromwell is it about their performance?
Is it that bad?

Please do not mancing2, let Cromwell keep it for his self.

Besides a corvette with complex subsystems like sensors, radars, armaments and CMS to integrate them all remains beyond our grasp yet. Our capabillity isn't that far yet, the level of participation in 2 PKR was only 4%, we barely involved and management was under direct Dutch supervision. You overestimated our capabillity, OPV is basic however corvette with ASuW, limited AAW & ASW capabillities are still beyond our grasps.

Ehem, really?

Our PT PAL is already has experience for the installment of :
Surveillance radar (PKR, KCR, Malahayati class)
Sonar (one of our Diponegoro class)
CMS (Malahayati class, KCR and may be PKR)
Primary Naval gun (PKR, KCR)
Secondary Naval gun (PKR, KCR)
Targeting radar (KCR)
AShM launcher (KCR, PKR, Malahayati class)
Torpedo launcher (PKR)
VLS canister (PKR)
All kind of cabels connected and integrated to radar, armament, CMS (KCR) and power source.

If they are combined together could form one integrated system in a new corvette.

Thus please do not underestimate our capability.

 

[Raduga]

Please do not mancing2, let Cromwell keep it for his self.



Ehem, really?

Our PT PAL is already has experience for the installment of :
Surveillance radar (PKR, KCR, Malahayati class)
Sonar (one of our Diponegoro class)
CMS (Malahayati class, KCR and may be PKR)
Primary Naval gun (PKR, KCR)
Secondary Naval gun (PKR, KCR)
Targeting radar (KCR)
AShM launcher (KCR, PKR, Malahayati class)
Torpedo launcher (PKR)
VLS canister (PKR)
All kind of cabels connected and integrated to radar, armament, CMS (KCR) and power source.

If they are combined together could form one integrated system in a new corvette.

Thus please do not underestimate our capability.

i think the only perfect example was KCR only , its completely our design (still hate that hideous gigantic radar mast though) , and KCR also already installed with custom sensor and CMS , the transition from the current chinese targeting system , CMS , and radar into Terma C Series packet was actually a good move

its just a matter of current regime/government "will" wanting to actually improve our industrial defence capabilty or not

batam palindo marine kn tanjung datu could actually be our frigate platform

 

[barjo]

When somebody put air condition in a car then he made the car LOL

 

[182]

ARMADA JAYA 2019

 

[HellFireIndo]

ARMADA JAYA 2019

This is the key to Indonesia's true power, PKRs looking good outside the controversies. About the Marines, should we really standardize all of their heavy equipment to Russian? BMP-3F and BT-3F tandem looking good and ease the logistics as they are of pretty much the same chassis anyway, hoarding hundreds of them is the to-go plan if we are not going to get sanctioned for it. LCAC+MBT for Marines could be good too, if the Army doesn't go full REEE at the idea, also i think some more AAV would do,we already have 15, so why not add more? at least if it make sense tho (if they could be any use and not giving logistical headache for the Marines for not being Russian).

 

[Raduga]

This is the key to Indonesia's true power, PKRs looking good outside the controversies. About the Marines, should we really standardize all of their heavy equipment to Russian? BMP-3F and BT-3F tandem looking good and ease the logistics as they are of pretty much the same chassis anyway, hoarding hundreds of them is the to-go plan if we are not going to get sanctioned for it. LCAC+MBT for Marines could be good too, if the Army doesn't go full REEE at the idea, also i think some more AAV would do,we already have 15, so why not add more? at least if it make sense tho (if they could be any use and not giving logistical headache for the Marines for not being Russian).

hmmm ..... for me the goal is to become powerful and not "look" powerful , there's still so much a thing that TNI lack especially the training drill where the scenario always "Pembebasan wilayah" and in that scenario , it's looks like the enemy who attacked us are like having WW2 equipment rather than "modern" one , TNI should consider to build an OPFOR , the scenario lack of enemy having a decent networked environment , electronic warfare , and air superiority (while in reality that's probably the one we're going to face in battlefield ), that's why i said it feels like we were fighting a ww2 troops that somehow manage to time travel into the future and attacked our island

should we ramped up our coast guard capability ? the philippines just launched their new OPV today , we should really own a bigger ship like this

 

[Cromwell]

Please do not mancing2, let Cromwell keep it for his self.



Ehem, really?

Our PT PAL is already has experience for the installment of :
Surveillance radar (PKR, KCR, Malahayati class)
Sonar (one of our Diponegoro class)
CMS (Malahayati class, KCR and may be PKR)
Primary Naval gun (PKR, KCR)
Secondary Naval gun (PKR, KCR)
Targeting radar (KCR)
AShM launcher (KCR, PKR, Malahayati class)
Torpedo launcher (PKR)
VLS canister (PKR)
All kind of cabels connected and integrated to radar, armament, CMS (KCR) and power source.

If they are combined together could form one integrated system in a new corvette.

Thus please do not underestimate our capability.

Not underestimating but realistic to facts in field. The works on PKR directly under management & supervision from Damen Schelde not us, you want something genuinely well documented in details and even the blue print then seek Fatahillah Class corvette, the paper though written in Holland Spreken.

https://lancerdefense.com/2019/07/13/panglima-tni-jajal-bmp-3f/?wref=tp

Credit to Lancerdefense.com
This article of all 76 needs for BMP-3F; 54 are fulfilled. Does it conclude last April 2019 procurement of 22 BMP-3F would be final batch of procurement ?

Btw the cost we paid for 1981 HDW Type-209 and Nagapasa Class

 

[Raduga]

bakalan di isi apaan ?

 

[Nike]

hmmm ..... for me the goal is to become powerful and not "look" powerful , there's still so much a thing that TNI lack especially the training drill where the scenario always "Pembebasan wilayah" and in that scenario , it's looks like the enemy who attacked us are like having WW2 equipment rather than "modern" one , TNI should consider to build an OPFOR , the scenario lack of enemy having a decent networked environment , electronic warfare , and air superiority (while in reality that's probably the one we're going to face in battlefield ), that's why i said it feels like we were fighting a ww2 troops that somehow manage to time travel into the future and attacked our island

should we ramped up our coast guard capability ? the philippines just launched their new OPV today , we should really own a bigger ship like this

We got three of 80 meter class for bakamla

View attachment 569536
bakalan di isi apaan ?

Sukhoi maybe