Indo Aryan Languages of South Asia

[Indus Pakistan]

Prakrit languages were distinct from each other in the same sense that Punjabi and Bengali is.

Why has a term been invented to express this. We don't have a prakrit for European languages that have all descended from same root. Nobody calls English, German, Danish etc as 'prakrit' or another term to express the same? Why here? I have a idea but I wait for your thoughts on this.

 

[Rafeh]

Also Pakistan also includes nearly 50 million Pashtuns (25 millions in KP, 7-9 million in FATA, similar number in sindh and karachi and similar number in punjab (actually way more since mix pashtun-punjabi population is at least as high as that of KPs, probably more since afghans settled in punjab a lot during their invasions, during pre-Pakistan times.).

it includes 11-12 millions Baloch, 15 millions or so of Kashmiris, northern Pakistanis, then we have Hinkowans etc. These are all direct descents of central asians (or euroasians). Why these people are always missed. They matter too. They are nearly half the pakistan.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

And @ArainGang are you Indian? You appear to be flogging 'brand India' in the link you provided although here you have used the more neutral 'South Asia'.

Pashtunes

Pashtuns. No 'e' please.

 

[Old School]

Keep in mind that linguistics and genetics are not mutually related. An native English speaking African American is no way an Anglo-Saxon. A Turkish speaker could of either Greek or Caucasian origin instead of a central asian Turkic. Population is mobile throughout the human history. A Punjabi speaker could have his ancestry in South India.

 

[Rafeh]

And @ArainGang are you Indian? You appear to be flogging 'brand India' in the link you provided although here you have used the more neutral 'South Asia'.

Pashtuns. No 'e' please.

Thanks. Corrected!. typed in a hurry.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Hindustan? What country was called hindustan when we ruled it?

It was not a country, but the area ruled by Mughals was called by Hindustan (coming from Hind,) particularly Muslim majority cities like Dilli, Agra, Lucknow,etc. They were almost completely Perso-Turkish in culture.

As states earlier, Muslim civilization was wiped from that area and Hindus were settled on those lands.

Not completely but close to 75%, because my susrael is from Punjab.. and I have many Punjabi friends from Faisalabad I made during my stay in UK. They forced me to watch Punjabi comedy stage shows..

But yes, Punjabi is closest to Urdu. Infact, it is easier to understand Punjabi than Farsi.

I am from Faisalabad, and yes, we love our stage shows and comedy. Faisalabadi Punjabi is unique in all of Pakistan and I believe, the most hilarious dialect. Most funny Punjabi programs are spoken in that dialect.

As a THetH Punjabi speaker with Pukhto speaking friends and relatives, I can tell you that if you learn to differentiate the accent, you can pick of most of what is being said. The same applies to Farsi/Dari and to a lesser extent Turkish.

Absolutely. The educated people in those times in the present territory of Pakistan apart from their native languages could speak, understand and were well versed in Dari/Farsi and also used to learn Arabic in madrassas. Urdu was not spoken in these lands by the native Muslims. It was only after the British c**** took over these lands that they imposed one language over the entire British India and Muslims of these lands had to suffer the most as over one century they imposed a language on these lands that was not native to the Muslims of these areas.

@Mangus Ortus Novem Sir don't you think that in a hindsight this decision of making Urdu our national language after creation of Pakistan was wrong. Not having Urdu as our language could have protected our society better from gangu influence like their POS movies, songs etc over the last 30 years. Now our harami entertainment media having learnt from them is in a race that who will do more kanjar khana. Its all a big kanjar show on entertainment media these days. A total "Ikhlaqiaat ka Janaza".

Also Allama Iqbal's two thirds poetry is in persian btw.

Dari should have become the national language of Pakistan, but two mistakes forced our hand, namely Bangladesh area and influx of Muhajirs who wanted their tongue as the national language.

It is never too late to correct this mistake and I believe Pakistan has been afforded a great opportunity with IK, PTI, and KPK now in the spotlight in Pakistan. We can work on changing Urdu by bringing more Dari/Pukhto words slowly.

I also don't enjoy Punjabi unless it is pure and has Farsi, Arabic words, it gives so much culture and class to a language to have larger ideas (mostly taken from poetry and the Quran) in our lingo. I am a fan of Mushairi for this reason.

I was NOT saying you are indian. I was talking to the other indian person.

Aryans, scythians, afghans, etc. were all central asians. Its a long discussion we will have it some other time. Mughal were not that numerous to give punjabis central asian genes. Punabis are the central asians predominantly, some mixed with indigenous people of earlier times. I should have used euroasia term instead of central asia since modern Pakistanis mostly came from euroasian region which extends from centra asia to ukrain.

Our cultural artifacts, textiles, pottery, and woven crafts are mainly from our nomadic steppe Iranic heritage. It is similar to those of Turkic people, as well.

 

[k s ahmed]

It was not a country, but the area ruled by Mughals was called by Hindustan (coming from Hind,) particularly Muslim majority cities like Dilli, Agra, Lucknow,etc. They were almost completely Perso-Turkish in culture.

As states earlier, Muslim civilization was wiped from that area and Hindus were settled on those lands.



I am from Faisalabad, and yes, we love our stage shows and comedy. Faisalabadi Punjabi is unique in all of Pakistan and I believe, the most hilarious dialect. Most funny Punjabi programs are spoken in that dialect.

As a THetH Punjabi speaker with Pukhto speaking friends and relatives, I can tell you that if you learn to differentiate the accent, you can pick of most of what is being said. The same applies to Farsi/Dari and to a lesser extent Turkish.



Dari should have become the national language of Pakistan, but two mistakes forced our hand, namely Bangladesh area and influx of Muhajirs who wanted their tongue as the national language.

It is never too late to correct this mistake and I believe Pakistan has been afforded a great opportunity with IK, PTI, and KPK now in the spotlight in Pakistan. We can work on changing Urdu by bringing more Dari/Pukhto words slowly.

I also don't enjoy Punjabi unless it is pure and has Farsi, Arabic words, it gives so much culture and class to a language to have larger ideas (mostly taken from poetry and the Quran) in our lingo. I am a fan of Mushairi for this reason.



Our cultural artifacts, textiles, pottery, and woven crafts are mainly from our nomadic steppe Iranic heritage. It is similar to those of Turkic people, as well.

Why do.we.need to.change Urdu into.dari?
Also , do.you have somethjng against.mahajir?
What are basis.of.your assertions about dari etc.
Can you mention some references

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Why do.we.need to.change Urdu into.dari?
Also , do.you have somethjng against.mahajir?
What are basis.of.your assertions about dari etc.
Can you mention some references

Proper Urdu is the cousin of Dari, which is the natural language of our region.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

It was not a country, but the area ruled by Mughals was called by Hindustan (coming from Hind,) particularly Muslim majority cities like Dilli, Agra, Lucknow,etc. They were almost completely Perso-Turkish in culture.

As states earlier, Muslim civilization was wiped from that area and Hindus were settled on those lands.



I am from Faisalabad, and yes, we love our stage shows and comedy. Faisalabadi Punjabi is unique in all of Pakistan and I believe, the most hilarious dialect. Most funny Punjabi programs are spoken in that dialect.

As a THetH Punjabi speaker with Pukhto speaking friends and relatives, I can tell you that if you learn to differentiate the accent, you can pick of most of what is being said. The same applies to Farsi/Dari and to a lesser extent Turkish.



Dari should have become the national language of Pakistan, but two mistakes forced our hand, namely Bangladesh area and influx of Muhajirs who wanted their tongue as the national language.

It is never too late to correct this mistake and I believe Pakistan has been afforded a great opportunity with IK, PTI, and KPK now in the spotlight in Pakistan. We can work on changing Urdu by bringing more Dari/Pukhto words slowly.

I also don't enjoy Punjabi unless it is pure and has Farsi, Arabic words, it gives so much culture and class to a language to have larger ideas (mostly taken from poetry and the Quran) in our lingo. I am a fan of Mushairi for this reason.



Our cultural artifacts, textiles, pottery, and woven crafts are mainly from our nomadic steppe Iranic heritage. It is similar to those of Turkic people, as well.

I believe a new national language should be formed. A mixture of pakhto, turkish, Persian and Arabic. Just like urdu but minus the swamp

Proper Urdu is the cousin of Dari, which is the natural language of our region.

Not dari but farsi, although greek was spoken far longer then farsi.

 

[ArainGang]

And @ArainGang are you Indian? You appear to be flogging 'brand India' in the link you provided although here you have used the more neutral 'South Asia'.

Pashtuns. No 'e' please.

Ethnically Pakistani (half Punjabi, half Muhajir), born and raised in America. I don't know what "brand India" is, if I go back and forth between using India or South-Asia its probably random.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

two mistakes forced our hand, namely Bangladesh area and influx of Muhajirs who wanted their tongue as the national language.

Fantastically accurate explaination that probably is better then a entire book looking at why Pakistan failed to build a coherant identity and strong nationalism instead of a fractured, riven, divided and diffuse understanding of who we are.

If in 1947 Bangla had not been part of Pakistan [as envisaged by both Sir Allama/Rehmat Ali] and there had been no large external migration* [such was never envisaged] Pakistan would have a very simple DNA that would be rooted in the soil.

However with Bangla included and mass migration from India [many of whom ended up having oversized influence on the state in fiorst few years] the recipe became very complicated. The only common denominator you could find was Islam to link up with Banglas/Mohajirs and the natives. This led to a veery amorphous identity that actually is not unique to Pakistan but 1.6 billion people and 50 countries on four continents. A Somali is a Muslim. so is a Sudani. So is a Algerian. So is a Bosnian. So is a Malay etc.

 

[Old School]

Fantastically accurate explaination that probably is better then a entire book looking at why Pakistan failed to build a coherant identity and strong nationalism instead of a fractured, riven, divided and diffuse understanding of who we are.

If in 1947 Bangla had not been part of Pakistan [as envisaged by both Sir Allama/Rehmat Ali] and there had been no large external migration* [such was never envisaged] Pakistan would have a very simple DNA that would be rooted in the soil.

However with Bangla included and mass migration from India [many of whom ended up having oversized influence on the state in fiorst few years] the recipe became very complicated. The only common denominator you could find was Islam to link up with Banglas/Mohajirs and the natives. This led to a veery amorphous identity that actually is not unique to Pakistan but 1.6 billion people and 50 countries on four continents. A Somali is a Muslim. so is a Sudani. So is a Algerian. So is a Bosnian. So is a Malay etc.

Pakistan was supposed become a center of pan-Islamism analogus to what Israel is for the worldwide Jews. Nevertheless, Pakistan was founded on the two nation theory as a Muslim homeland which is an undeniable fact. Islam rejects ethnic nationalism.

 

[k s ahmed]

Proper Urdu is the cousin of Dari, which is the natural language of our region.

But why we NEED to change ?
We'd rather write more content in Urdu

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Pakistan was supposed become a center of pan-Islamism analogus to what Israel is for the worldwide Jews. Nevertheless, Pakistan was founded on the two nation theory as a Muslim homeland which is an undeniable fact. Islam rejects ethnic nationalism.

Pakistan is a separate qawm within the larger Muslim Ummat. There is space in Islam, even the Quran, for different grouping of people based on race. This is what Tanzimat reforms at the end of the Ottoman empire were about.

Pakistan never asked all Muslims of the world to migrate to Pakistan, as Israel asked of Jews. Getting Pakistani citizenship is still very difficult. You can ask that of the Bengalis who have been coming to Pakistan since 1971.

We love our fellow Muslims and respect them as our brothers and sisters, but that doesn't mean anyone can come into our country.

Our internal problems are too severe to have immigration, we need to employ every single Pakistani first and uplift them out of poverty. If we need labor, we can bring them then.

I think many of us would still rather opt for Afghans(or other more compatible people) than Indian Muslims.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Pakistan is a separate qawm within the larger Muslim Ummat. There is space in Islam, even the Quran, for different grouping of people based on race. This is what Tanzimat reforms at the end of the Ottoman empire were about.

Pakistan never asked all Muslims of the world to migrate to Pakistan, as Israel asked of Jews. Getting Pakistani citizenship is still very difficult. You can ask that of the Bengalis who have been coming to Pakistan since 1971.

We love our fellow Muslims and respect them as our brothers and sisters, but that doesn't mean anyone can come into our country.

Our internal problems are too severe to have immigration, we need to employ every single Pakistani first and uplift them out of poverty. If we need labor, we can bring them then.

I think many of us would still rather opt for Afghans(or other more compatible people) than Indian Muslims.

We should open immigration to high skilled workforce if we are serious I would love to see talented Turkish,Iranian or any country that has decent relations with us or growing regional power that is Muslim we should encourage that but I oppose Mass Immigration as its a explotative tool used by nations who dont want to fix their own problems via demographics or they just dont want to do the dirty greasy work not fair at all plus drains labor and brain drain for countries that need it the most something an issue Pakistan faces dearly very much Gulf Arabs nations are good example of explotaion of cheap labor