Indigenous cannon system(s) for Pakistan Army

[SSGPA1]

The Government of Pakistan should review and formalize a national defence manufacturing strategy.

Currently Pakistan procure majority of major defence systems from its allies around the globe. This scenario is acceptable if Pakistan’s border were secure and shorter in length, however, this is not the case.

Pakistan is located in a politically unstable region with hostile neighbours on its east and west. Securing Pakistani frontiers demands independence from foreign sources in many areas.

If we look at cannons used by Pakistan Army, we see the same status. We should target the cannons used by PA, PN and the PAF for production in Pakistan.

This will be a move towards indigenous production of modern cannon systems in Pakistan. The other target of this exercise will be to build and enhance a strategic relationship with China, where Chinese needs for such systems are met by Pakistan.

Benefit for China will be availability of resources and dependable supply line from Pakistan. First step, GoP will need to issue licenses to private firms for research and analysis along with fund raising purposes.

Funds can be raised by issuing shares with strict regulations and there is no shortage of technical expertise. If price is right, foreign expertise will also come along.

What are your thoughts?

 

[arslan_treen]

depends on what u mean by a cannon .? do u mean Feild Artilry like howietzers and sp guns .? or the air defence cannons ,or big caliber gun .? the artilery yes and we can produce them this is from the mouth of one of the directors of HIT but due to lack of ''commision'' this path has not been taken as was the case of 125 mm main gun of Al khalid because norinco paid commision the HITs gun was never even given a chance which was and is exactly the same as the Chinese one used in Al khalid , the Pof do produce the most of the other anti air and heavy caliber guns and air defence cannons are produced in a factory near karachi i am forgetting the name . may be some senior members can shed some light on that aswel .!

 

[SSGPA1]

I meant howietzers and sp guns, the air defence cannons or big caliber gun.

Anything which can be manufactured in Pakistan.

This is goood to know that Director of HIT is confident.

What we need is a lobby which cann sincerely work toards this goal.

 

[fatman17]

depends on what u mean by a cannon .? do u mean Feild Artilry like howietzers and sp guns .? or the air defence cannons ,or big caliber gun .? the artilery yes and we can produce them this is from the mouth of one of the directors of HIT but due to lack of ''commision'' this path has not been taken as was the case of 125 mm main gun of Al khalid because norinco paid commision the HITs gun was never even given a chance which was and is exactly the same as the Chinese one used in Al khalid , the Pof do produce the most of the other anti air and heavy caliber guns and air defence cannons are produced in a factory near karachi i am forgetting the name . may be some senior members can shed some light on that aswel .!

pls correct me (i could be wrong) but all 100mm and 125mm SB main guns are from the UK!

 

[fatman17]

^^ as a first step in this direction HIT has started collaboration with China for the 122mm MLRS systems.

For SPs and Howitzers, a transfer-of-technology will be required and the Turkish Panter 155mm Howitzer may be the first step in that direction if the field trials of the howitzer are successful.

so yes the army and HIT are certainly looking in this direction. this is purely my own assessment - the guy who can really shed a light is "epool"

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

^^ as a first step in this direction HIT has started collaboration with China for the 122mm MLRS systems.

For SPs and Howitzers, a transfer-of-technology will be required and the Turkish Panter 155mm Howitzer may be the first step in that direction if the field trials of the howitzer are successful.

so yes the army and HIT are certainly looking in this direction. this is purely my own assessment - the guy who can really shed a light is "epool"

my friend here played a big part on the Turk Howitzer transfer.

A fine piece I may add

 

[RS4]

What about the Turkish Fitna 155 SPH?

 

[Zarbe Momin]

Hello,
It is not clear and nobody on forum respond well. Why Pakistan Army is not interested to develop Howitzers in Pakistan. There are plenty of options to develop Howitzers in Pakistan by mutal projects with other countries like Turkey, china, Germany, ukraine. Steel Technology which we require we can get from Germany. Even our own metallurgy engineers are very well qualified. This apporach is very negative!!! that we need not much so we will buy from other countries. It is a killing factor for self reliance. When there was a proposal to develop Atom Bomb in Muhammed Ayub Khan period. He said we have many friends and we will buy from international market. Our artillary units are very well trained. Their fire is always precise and accurate. Kargil was good example. But numbers also count & we lack numbers.
wasalam

 

[Keysersoze]

Hello,
It is not clear and nobody on forum respond well. Why Pakistan Army is not interested to develop Howitzers in Pakistan. There are plenty of options to develop Howitzers in Pakistan by mutal projects with other countries like Turkey, china, Germany, ukraine. Steel Technology which we require we can get from Germany. Even our own metallurgy engineers are very well qualified. This apporach is very negative!!! that we need not much so we will buy from other countries. It is a killing factor for self reliance. When there was a proposal to develop Atom Bomb in Muhammed Ayub Khan period. He said we have many friends and we will buy from international market. Our artillary units are very well trained. Their fire is always precise and accurate. Kargil was good example. But numbers also count & we lack numbers.
wasalam

Actually it is quite clear that engineering is only possible if there is a specific base in place to allow it to flourish. Build the base first then worry about the manufacture of weaponry. (Education/economy and industry)
For example a physicist will know how to build a bomb....But will need a HUGE industrial base in order to actually construct it.

 

[niaz]

depends on what u mean by a cannon .? do u mean Feild Artilry like howietzers and sp guns .? or the air defence cannons ,or big caliber gun .? the artilery yes and we can produce them this is from the mouth of one of the directors of HIT but due to lack of ''commision'' this path has not been taken as was the case of 125 mm main gun of Al khalid because norinco paid commision the HITs gun was never even given a chance which was and is exactly the same as the Chinese one used in Al khalid , the Pof do produce the most of the other anti air and heavy caliber guns and air defence cannons are produced in a factory near karachi i am forgetting the name . may be some senior members can shed some light on that aswel .!

In 1972 I visited Pakistan Machine Tool Factory at Landhi; which was only established with help from China two years earlier; as Technical Sales Engineer to sell them lubricants for their machines. Only gun type item that I came across was 106 mm recoil less rifle (RCL) mainly used as an anti tank weapon for PA. Landhi factory has the capacity to manufacture large bore guns if ingots/rods of the extra hard steel/ alloys can be provided.

The Forge shop attached to the factory is of limited capability. For the big guns/howitzers one would need the forges at the Heavy Forge and Foundry Complex attached to the HMC factory at Taxila. However, I doubt if Pakistan has the metallurgical know how to produce alloy steels required for big guns, say 155 mm Howitzer.

 

[blain2]

The Forge shop attached to the factory is of limited capability. For the big guns/howitzers one would need the forges at the Heavy Forge and Foundry Complex attached to the HMC factory at Taxila. However, I doubt if Pakistan has the metallurgical know how to produce alloy steels required for big guns, say 155 mm Howitzer.

Based on what I know, the biggest problem is good quality steel in the manufacture of such items. Pakistan has the know how but the import of such raw materials is a fairly costly issue.

 

[S-2]

Dilband, Chiniot, and Rajoa provide indigenous iron ore, do they not? For what purposes is that ore allocated and why would it not be suitable as a base to smelting high-grade steel?

 

[qsaark]

I guess it is neither about the technical knowhow nor about the availability of the raw material, it is more about the feasibility of manufacturing these howitzers. Unlike the fighter planes, Pakistan is not largely dependent on sanction-prone howitzers from US, and there are other sources from where howitzers can be purchased. BTW hasn't Pakistan signed a MOU on jointly making the Panther howitzers with Turky?

 

[fatman17]

I guess it is neither about the technical knowhow nor about the availability of the raw material, it is more about the feasibility of manufacturing these howitzers. Unlike the fighter planes, Pakistan is not largely dependent on sanction-prone howitzers from US, and there are other sources from where howitzers can be purchased. BTW hasn't Pakistan signed a MOU on jointly making the Panther howitzers with Turky?

depends on the results of the field trials! if they are successful, look for a MoU on co-production.

 

[All-Green]

Actually it is quite clear that engineering is only possible if there is a specific base in place to allow it to flourish. Build the base first then worry about the manufacture of weaponry. (Education/economy and industry)
For example a physicist will know how to build a bomb....But will need a HUGE industrial base in order to actually construct it.

Agreed that education and subsequent R&D is the need of the hour.
However, we did pursue a successful nuclear program without an extensive relevant base.

I am all for spending the big bucks on education and R&D but where ever we can start things in house (if strategically feasible) it should not be dismissed.