India's Worst Fears and Our Military Options For Sir Creek,Kutch and Kathiawar Regions of Gujrat

[Cuirassier]

A lot of credit goes to their Arty which made things much easier for them in those cases.

In mountains, its atleast 6:1. A mountain strong point requires more.

In Kargil, in reality, even these ratios were found inadequate. Gen V P Malik, as a policy, ordered for atleast 16:1 for an attack on a mountain top. He mentions it in his book as well.

Its a hell of task to attack uphill.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Its not all my nightmare, its also @Signalian 's as well. Actually we consider it a pleasant dream. More and more people seem to be sharing our dreams

You guys have done a terrific job in educating the masses. Today i see a lot of visitors from our neighbour hood obviously perturbed by the topic of this thread !!!!

battle of Longewala started and ended. IAF Pilots jokingly called the whole ordeal "Turkey Shoot".

Something like this !!!which the PAF repeated many times!!!

 

[Jackdaws]

Obviously the pressure was relieved. The original plan was that both I Corps and XI Corps were to be launched on the same date to enhance the shock effect on Pak defences. However once the main goal couldn't be achieved the IA was content in securing the East bank of the canal. BTW no major reinforcements were sent from Pak reserves (not much as such) to counter the XI Corps offensive - it was dealt with by the already present two divisions.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/operation-grand-slam.58135/

"The whole situation changed on 6th September once India attacked all along the international border opposite Sialkot, Lahore and Kasur. The 7th Division was ordered to transfer 11 Cavalry, HQ 4 Corps Artillery Brigade and 39 Field Regiment to 1 Corps in Ravi-Chenab Corridor.76 Grand Slam was over!"

Didn't the Americans ask India to slow down the advance once Lahore Airport was in sight as they wanted to evacuate American citizens?

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Didn't the Americans ask India to slow down the advance once Lahore Airport was in sight as they wanted to evacuate American citizens?

What have you been smoking my friend!!! Probably you are mixing Dacca airport with Lahore?.

 

[Jackdaws]

What have you been smoking my friend!!! Probably you are mixing Dacca airport with Lahore?.

It is possible - that's why I asked it as a question.

 

[KhanBaba2]

Didn't the Americans ask India to slow down the advance once Lahore Airport was in sight as they wanted to evacuate American citizens?

'
I have heard rumors of that. Also rumors of "Breakfast in Lahore". We will never be able to authenticate those. Wars create their own fables. People with first hand accounts working at a senior enough level are generally gone by now.

But I really doubt that we wanted Lahore. It would have been a nightmare to retain.

 

[Jackdaws]

'
I have heard rumors of that. Also rumors of "Breakfast in Lahore". We will never be able to authenticate those. Wars create their own fables. People with first hand accounts working at a senior enough level are generally gone by now.

But I really doubt that we wanted Lahore. It would have been a nightmare to retain.

Hmm. A lesson learned 2 decades later in Jaffna. But that's for another thread.

 

[Adam_Khan]

Good for them.

These objectives feature as additional objectives, not primary objectives, for the formations tasked with them. Assaults in mountainous terrains may need a superiority of as much as 9:1, so while plans had been prepared, a decision has not been taken. It will not be taken unless the resources are available AND COMMITTED.

Your troops in occupation of these two features have nothing to worry about. Nothing to worry about.



Read the next post.

I'm more interested in air warfare than ground warfare but have been reading your replies here and on another thread and must said really loved the exchange and have learnt a lot about ground warfare as well.

Just wanted to ask a quick question from you especially since you have been quite critical of your side giving away Haji pir pass after the 1965 war.
Do you think it was a good idea to give away Haji pir pass in exchange of Fatwal ridge especially since it was so close to Akhnoor?

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Also rumors of "Breakfast in Lahore

This rumour is well accounted for ,the General who dreamt of having a pint in the Lahore Gymkhana,ended up losing his jeep, a souvenir for the museum.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Didn't the Americans ask India to slow down the advance once Lahore Airport was in sight as they wanted to evacuate American citizens?

They asked for a day's suspension. However, the furthest point of access was Batanagar.

'
I have heard rumors of that. Also rumors of "Breakfast in Lahore". We will never be able to authenticate those. Wars create their own fables. People with first hand accounts working at a senior enough level are generally gone by now.

But I really doubt that we wanted Lahore. It would have been a nightmare to retain.

The Breakfast in Lahore was originated, as far as I could trace it, in an item that appeared in the Amrita Bazar Patrika of Calcutta. How they got that into their heads is a mystery to all. Certainly, they didn't interview anyone for it.

Since then, it has entered Pakistani urban legend, along with 700,000 troops in Kashmir, and several other stirring notions.

 

[Jackdaws]

This rumour is well accounted for ,the General who dreamt of having a pint in the Lahore Gymkhana,ended up losing his jeep, a souvenir for the museum.

This was that cowardly general Niranjan. He did not lose the jeep in Pakistan. It was captured in India itself and taken. @Joe Shearer can verify.

They asked for a day's suspension. However, the furthest point of access was Batanagar.

Do you have a source for this? You probably know what I need it for.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'm more interested in air warfare than ground warfare but have been reading your replies here and on another thread and must said really loved the exchange and have learnt a lot about ground warfare as well.

Just wanted to ask a quick question from you especially since you have been quite critical of your side giving away Haji pir pass after the 1965 war.
Do you think it was a good idea to give away Haji pir pass in exchange of Fatwal ridge especially since it was so close to Akhnoor?

I get your point, but would just like to confine myself to stating that the return of Haji Pir Pass was a terrible error, and one that has increased the difficulty of guarding that sector, Uri to Poonch, by an order of magnitude.

Yes, I am sidestepping. Very good question, that.

This rumour is well accounted for ,the General who dreamt of having a pint in the Lahore Gymkhana,ended up losing his jeep, a souvenir for the museum.

This was not the man. This was the jeep of Niranjan Parsad, Div. Cdr. 15th Infantry Div., who had failed earlier in 62 and was rehabilitated due to his connections in Delhi pleading that he be given another chance.

The remark was attributed, without any foundation, to General Chaudhuri, COAS, who was nowhere near the frontline at that time.

This was that cowardly general Niranjan. He did not lose the jeep in Pakistan. It was captured in India itself and taken. @Joe Shearer can verify.




Do you have a source for this? You probably know what I need it for.

I can't remember; if you don't mind, take a look at Major Amin's account of 1965; it was reproduced by fatman17 - brilliant thread showcasing a very good analyst.

 

[JafarQureshi]

@Joe Shearer can verify.

One Indian supporting the other. What an evidence. Must be true.

By all means, go for another 1000 if it instills a sense of accomplishment for you.

Rest assured, We will.

 

[Joe Shearer]

He gave a general idea, at some places it can differ but not by much.

To be honest, that was just a way of saying that an attack in the mountains is much more expensive than an attack in the plains. The figure is not to be taken as a standard, although in Kargil operations, it was frequently exceeded. It depends on how strongly the position under attack is guarded.

 

[Armchair]

You guys have done a terrific job in educating the masses. Today i see a lot of visitors from our neighbour hood obviously perturbed by the topic of this thread !!!!


Something like this !!!which the PAF repeated many times!!!

Its a pleasure. And worthy next generation can take our work and build something even better!