India's Revenge: RAW Attacks Cricketers in Pakistan

[Awesome]

Well on one hand you say RAW did it and on the other hand the investigating agencies are finding it difficult to get the clues. Other than those sketches and 10 people who are rounded up.

It looks like they did it.

However I'm not going to pronounce them guilty based on the present list of facts.

 

[Awesome]

MODS:
Will like to sugget to merge all the threads on Lahore incident under this sticky thread. There are atleast 4-5 diff thread on the same incident discussing Indian involvement.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/22806-zaid-hamid-lahore-attacks.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/war-terror/22682-attack-srilankan-cricket-team-lahore.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...eam-ansar-abasi-reveals-secret-documents.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-india-crisis/22762-pakistan-s-munich-enemy-s-fingerprints.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/war-terror/22702-who-behind-lahore-3-3-terror-attacks.html


tx

Those threads have gone wayward, this one focuses upon RAW's implication only.

 

[rubyjackass]

Firstly I don't think Indian army uses RPG. They use Gustav rifles
View attachment 1817

These are remarkably different from the launcher retrieved from lahore.

Please post some pictures. People here can decide whether they are, as the ppl like Zaid Hamid claiming to be, similar to Indian used weapons.

 

[tyagi]

yes india does not use rpg

 

[roadrunner]

This is definitly another plan by the same Pakistani based guys ( LeTor ISI etc) who did 26/11 to divert the attention. This attack helps these 26/11 conspirartors as they were feeling the heat from GOP / India and Int'l communities. With 3/3 Pakistan has got a wonderfull oppurtunity to cut a sorry figure and buy symphaty.

Lol. Come now, you surely don't believe what you just wrote

Why on earth would Pakistan shoot up the Sri Lankans when it is Pakistani $$ that will be lost through the relocation of cricket matches to other areas of the world. Simple cricketing economics. You lose home matches, you lose huge amounts of money. A packed stadium for a Pakistan home match generates huge $$ relative to GDP, and that's without all the advertizing and other sales going on.

If Pakistan attacked the Sri Lankans to get sympathy, why do it to tarnish the image of Pakistan and drive away this revenue? Surely Pakistan could have attacked a softer target, created a hostage drama like in Mumbai, got all the news stations down there, and prolonged the episode as much as possible in order to get maximum news coverage. This was over in 15 minutes with a minimum of news coverage.

It's simply nothing gained by Pakistan in carrying out this attack that tarnishes its sporting image. A lot is gained by RAW (and credible threats were received RAW would attack the Sri Lankans) and Mukherjee's comments threatening the Sri Lankans if they dare set foot to play a cricket match in Pakistan

 

[thorosius]

The backpacks that the police recovered contained dry fruits! And why in the world did these kids needed them. And why did they even need backpacks in the first place. It was ofcourse a remake of the Mumbai scene. Obviously RAW wanted us to know that its a payback.

 

[roadrunner]

A note on the RPG-22 - standard issue Indian Special Forces weapon

"Carl Gustavs are of Swedish origin and exported to the Indian army and never exported to the Mujahideen. RPG-22 rocket propelled anti-tank grenades, another standard issue for the Indian special forces (and another weapon less typical for the Taliban who more typically prefer RPG-7s) was also used. A senior defense correspondent, while remaining anonymous, states that the choice of weapons as well as other evidence, clearly indicates India's hand in the present attack and is being seen as a "response" to the Mumbai attacks."
Grande Strategy: India's Revenge: RAW Attacks Cricketers in Pakistan

The Carl Gustavs are from the Indian infantry
(recoiless weapons)
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-...n=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26&vmcchk=1&Itemid=26

 

[Bull]

Lol. Come now, you surely don't believe what you just wrote

Why on earth would Pakistan shoot up the Sri Lankans when it is Pakistani $$ that will be lost through the relocation of cricket matches to other areas of the world. Simple cricketing economics. You lose home matches, you lose huge amounts of money... and that's without all the advertizing and other sales going on.

Those $$$ are nothing compared to the the $$$ Uncle sam would give you in cash and in hardware. And by the way how much were you earning.

Anyways who would visited Pakistan other than Lanka and B'desh? So your claim of massive damages via loss of cricketing revenues is not true.

packed stadium for a Pakistan home match generates huge $$ relative to GDP:

Thats rubbish. Gaddafi might be having a capacity of 40k, charge every one 1k and you have 4Mn, host a 30 matches in a year and you have 120 Mn or 12 crores. You share that with the visiting team's board, local organisers and what are you left with. 8 Crores. How does that compare to the billions of $$$ in amercan aid and UAVs.

If Pakistan attacked the Sri Lankans to get sympathy, why do it to tarnish the image of Pakistan and drive away this revenue? Surely Pakistan could have attacked a softer target, created a hostage drama like in Mumbai, got all the news stations down there, and prolonged the episode as much as possible in order to get maximum news coverage. This was over in 15 minutes with a minimum of news coverage. :

Sadly terror attacks in Pakistan has become a norm and wouldnt have got any attention, unlike this. This became a huge issue, bigger than lal masjid and what was the casuality, poor 6 police guys were killed and all the players escaped unhurt.

It's simply nothing gained by Pakistan in carrying out this attack that tarnishes its sporting image. A lot is gained by RAW (and credible threats were received RAW would attack the Sri Lankans) and Mukherjee's comments threatening the Sri Lankans if they dare set foot to play a cricket match in Pakistan

If the aim was to revenge, a car bomb would have taken care of or a suicide bomb.

The idea of planning it the same way like 26/11 or look similar to 26/11 attackers were to make the world think the same guys who attacked India have attacked Pakistan too and bith are victims of terror.

 

[Thebignag]

Hi I had commented in Newsweek last year...... Just reproducing the same....

Posted By: thebignag @ 12/31/2007 6:28:39 AM Dear Friend, if you are a Pakisthani, I feel sorry for you. You just are refusing to see the obvious. You are in the process of loosing your country the way you knew it. Seventy percent of your professional army comprises illiterate Tribals from Pakistan-Afghanistan border, with strong clan affinity. The current operations against the militants were against their clansman, where the Army failed miserably to achieve it???s objective as it is already talibanised. It a matter of time, when these people joins their Taliban clansman in the name of Islam and Jihad to create the worst case scenario that the world has ever seen. A bunch of highly trained Army of God armed with nukes, with dreams of HOORS in haven???. And without any regards for human life or international conventions. You my friend and your kinds, educated, moderates will be shot and bombed into submission. THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION BUT TO DEFANG PAKISTAN OF IT???S NUKES AND NUKE DELIVERY SYSTEM TO SECURE THE WORLD. The question in front of the world my friend is protecting a country or two but preserving human and human civilization.

Posted By: thebignag @ 12/31/2007 5:30:38 AM We need not worry about securing the nukes in Pakistan. Al Qeada and it???s cronies are not looking at stealing the nukes. They have already initiated the process to steal the state itself with all the booty. Of course, moving a few nukes from the present government control to their control will be a part of their short strategy befor the state comes under their total control. Pakistan is ripe for a steal. I would not be surprised if within the next year or so, Mush becomes history, the modernist secular middle class shot and bombed into silence and half the **** army deserting and putting their lots with the Mullahs. That is when the world will be shitting in their pants???. US will have to pay a very heavy price for creating / using Mujahedins as state policy. And the second mistake - sleeping with the enemy ??? Pakistan a key ally BAH!!

The stage is being set to steal Pakistan from the Pakistanis. Lahore was the second act of the show, after Mumbai..... Pakistanis be pragmatic. Know your enemy. India is only your perceived enemy, and the entity who would harm you, if ever the least.....

 

[SurvivoR]

How did the RAW do all these ???

• Punjab Govt shuffle the police officers
• Punjab Govt ignore specific threast on SL team, specific as in as specific as it can get.
• Make the anonymous call that made authorities change the route.
• And then know about the changed route.

1. Punjab government did not shuffle rather the Governor backed by central government had shuffled the police officers which indirectly helped the attackers.
2. Punjab Govt did not ignore the threats to SL team rather when Shahbaz Sharif was Chief Minister after receiving information about entry of two RAW terrorists through Wahgah border, Shahbaz had ordered strict security and monitoring.
With shuffling of top police officials overnight by PPP government the security measures took by Punjab Govt of Shahbaz were weakened.

What is so difficult for RAW operative to make a call to authorities forced the authorities to change the route ?
Indeed when you have two routes and you change the one then even an idiot can know that now the second route will be used for transportation.

This is definitly another plan by the same Pakistani based guys ( LeTor ISI etc) who did 26/11 to divert the attention. This attack helps these 26/11 conspirartors as they were feeling the heat from GOP / India and Int'l communities. With 3/3 Pakistan has got a wonderfull oppurtunity to cut a sorry figure and buy symphaty.


If you look at the biggest benefeciary, its GOP and not India. Now from 26/11 they can cry about being 3/3 victims and ask for $$$ and UAVs.

If take facts and ground realities into account then the biggest beneficiary of 26/11 was India not Pakistan on many grounds.

1. Pakistan is already under pressure from US therefore 26/11 only added to more pressure and strict regulations in terms of military and other aspects. Pakistan could not have been a beneficiary in any case regarding 26/11.

2 On the other hand India was only one to gain world sympathies and return more arms and weapon deals. On the same pretext of guarding is maritime territories India is pleading the world for modernization of Indian Navy.

The very fact that Srilankan players were left unhurt, proves that the attackers were there to show 'presence' and not 'perform the act'. And why would any terrorist do that?

So you mean if the Sri Lankans were killed then you would have called it real attack ? pathetic .
They were unhurt because our brave elite force personnel sacrificed their lives for saving the Sri Lankan players.

In the same way it seems the Mumbai attackers were there only to kill ATS chief Himant Karkare and other officers who were investigating involvement of Indian army in terrorism.

Attack in the same way as they did in 26/11, similar dress and with foot soldiers. This is blatant attempt to show that the guys who atacked India on 26/11 also has attacked Pakistan on 3/3 and both countries have to 'fight' terrorists as they both are 'victims' togther.

Pakistan does not need to do that to show herself as victim because we had been targeted many times which if India had ever faced such amount of terrorism then I would not have been able to even stand on your feet.
Just go back and try to recall how many attacks India faced during last 61 years of its history?
Pakistan has suffered more deadly attacks in just few months which India did not face in last over 60 years.
The bottom line is your comment to term it as an attempt by Pakistan to show the world as victim, is nothing but a weak and false statement.

For your information here is a chronology of recent bomb attacks in Pakistan by terrorists (It is not the complete list just recent ones. It does not include the ones occurred in 2009 )



CHRONOLOGY - Recent bomb attacks in Pakistan | Top News | Reuters
CHRONOLOGY - Recent bomb attacks in Pakistan
Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:27pm IST

Reuters - A suspected suicide attack caused a huge explosion outside the Marriott Hotel in the Pakistani capital Islamabad on Saturday, witness and police said.
Here is a chronology of some of the major bomb attacks of the last six months:
July 14, 2007 - Suicide car-bomber kills 24 paramilitary soldiers and wounds 29 in North Waziristan.
July 15 - Sixteen people, most of them paramilitary soldiers, are killed in an ambush while on patrol in the Swat valley in North West Frontier Province (NWFP). Separately, a suicide bomber targets a police recruiting centre in Dera Ismail Khan in NWFP, killing 29.
July 17 - Suicide bomber kills 16 people outside a court in Islamabad, where country's suspended chief justice, Iftikhar Chaudhry, was due to speak.
July 19 - Three suicide attacks in a single day in three towns kill at least 52 people.
July 27 - Suicide bomb attack in a restaurant near Islamabad's Red Mosque kills 13 people, most of them policemen.
Sept. 4 - Two suicide bombers kill 25 in Rawalpindi.
Sept. 11 - Suicide bomber kills 16 people in northwest Dera Ismail Khan.
Sept. 13 - At least 15 soldiers killed in suicide bombing in an army canteen near Islamabad.
Oct. 19 - At least 139 people killed in suicide bomb attack on Benazir Bhutto's motorcade as she is driven through Karachi after arriving home from eight years of exile. The attack is one of the deadliest in Pakistan's history.
Oct. 25 - Suspected suicide bomber kills 21 people, including 17 soldiers, in an attack on an army convoy in the northwestern Swat valley.
Nov. 24 - Twin suicide car bomb attacks kill 15 people in Rawalpindi, on the eve of the return of former prime minister Nawaz Sharif from exile in Saudi Arabia.
Dec. 17 - A suicide bomber kills 10 military recruits in the northwestern town of Kohat.
Dec. 21 - A suicide bomber kills at least 41 people in a mosque in northwest Pakistan during Eid festival prayers.
Dec. 27 - Bhutto is killed in a gun and bomb attack after a rally in Rawalpindi. At least 16 others are killed in the attack.
Dec 31 - Violence flares as angry supporters of Bhutto take to the streets. The death toll of people killed in riots reaches 47.
Jan. 7, 2008 - Al Qaeda-linked militants in northwest Pakistan attack two offices of a government-sponsored peace movement and kill eight people. Continued...
Jan. 10 - A suicide bomber walks up to policemen stationed outside the High Court in Lahore and set off explosives. Nineteen people are killed, 16 policemen and 3 passers-by.
Jan. 14 - Nine people are killed in a roadside bomb attack in a low-income neighbourhood of Karachi.
Jan. 17 - A teenager blows himself up in a Shi'ite Muslim prayer hall in Peshawar. At least nine people are killed and 25 are wounded.
Sept. 20 - A suspected suicide attack caused a huge explosion outside the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, witnesses and police said.
CHRONOLOGY - Recent bomb attacks in Pakistan | Top News | Reuters

Drama enacted well.

• RPG misses two buses and flys over the roof.
• Grenade rolls under the bus.
• 10 AK 47 rifle continous assault for 25 minutes leave only a mere half a dozen bullet marks on front windsheild. Where they aiming moon.

If you do not have the idea how far the area from where they were firing on the bust then do not post misleading lies here.

They missed the target because the driver sped who was also praised by Sri Lankan players.

It also shows the terrorists were themselves in panic and not trained well.

Did you see 10 AK 47s firing ? Atleast we did not see 10 but only two men firing in randomly.

 

[roadrunner]

Those $$$ are nothing compared to the the $$$ Uncle sam would give you in cash and in hardware. And by the way how much were you earning.

I think the difference between the money the US gives and those those from the cricket economy is this. The US aid is primarily for military use. They come in the form of weaponry. Economic aid does arrives, but a lot of this is syphoned off by various officials in the process so that very little of the minimal aid gets through to the Pakistani economy.

The US aid is of course nothing in comparison to the size of the Pakistani economy, so from the point of view of absolute figures one can argue that per seat attendance and US aid are minimal.

HOWEVER, with cricket there's many many factors, and the overwhelming one is that the money gets directly input into the Pakistani economy. No corruption, just good honest spending. There are many deals done between news channels and the grounds that generate invisible $$, along with sales promotions and many more things that make the cricket revenue vastly greater.

Let's take a look at the fundamentals. Each seat is approximately 10 dollars. The stadiums generally seat around 70,000 or 80,000 people, for internationals they are usually packed out. Total dollars from basic cricket stadium price per match, $800,000. That's $1 million per match. Let's say 5 tests and ODI played 5 times in a year for touring teams.

That is 5 * 5 = 25 * $1 million = $25 million.

$25 million * 5 = 125 million (Tests)

5 * $1 million = $5 million * 5 = $25 million (ODI)

Total $150 million per year (max capacity, but since 20-20 is ignored).

So $150 million from ticket sales alone should be being generated. This is from direct attendance at grounds. Let's not forget that the majority of Pakistani homes with access to TV/internet will be watching this.

This then pushes the figure well into the billions that gets fed directly into the Pakistani economy since those Pakistanis pay those Pakistani stations with access to the Pakistani grounds (perhaps a cut is given). There are also the $$ from the Indian and other medias that will pay in the region of millions for rights to the images in order to broadcast to their country. Their recompense is much greater, especially in cricket hooked nations.

Then there are the sales companies, the advertizing companies, local ones, that generate huge amounts of cash from promotions like this. They give local jobs to the "dahi walla" sellers , and to local people such as those self employed taxi drivers.

This is just the tip of it all. There's huge sums of money that cricket generates in the subcontinent.

Anyways who would visited Pakistan other than Lanka and B'desh? So your claim of massive damages via loss of cricketing revenues is not true.

Cricket was picking up again in Pakistan.

Bangladesh and Sri Lanka were willing to tour. The rest of the cricket teams isolated Pakistan. If these two teams could have showed the world that Pakistan was safe to tour, other teams would have come.

Now they will not come for a very long time, and Pakistan loses the World Cup, with all the $$ revenue that should have gone to Pakistan, going to India. Mukherjee's claims and threats to the Sri Lankans have come true

 

[rubyjackass]

A note on the RPG-22 - standard issue Indian Special Forces weapon

"Carl Gustavs are of Swedish origin and exported to the Indian army and never exported to the Mujahideen. RPG-22 rocket propelled anti-tank grenades, another standard issue for the Indian special forces (and another weapon less typical for the Taliban who more typically prefer RPG-7s) was also used. A senior defense correspondent, while remaining anonymous, states that the choice of weapons as well as other evidence, clearly indicates India's hand in the present attack and is being seen as a "response" to the Mumbai attacks."
Grande Strategy: India's Revenge: RAW Attacks Cricketers in Pakistan

The Carl Gustavs are from the Indian infantry
(recoiless weapons)
:: bharat-rakshak.com - The Consortium of Indian Military and Defence Websites ::

That is the crap I am talking about.
Special Forces of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
None of them carry rpgs. Why do special forces need rpgs, anyway? Most of them are response teams or counter terrorist forces.
Pakka false info. Designed to convince info oriented people.

Please give any info about rpg usage in Indian army.


FYI Gustavs are also with Pakistan army. So the route of Pakistan army -> mujahideen is also possible.
Carl Gustav recoilless rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Please acknowledge this. This is about serious misinformation

 

[Bull]

Cricket was picking up again in Pakistan.

Bangladesh and Sri Lanka were willing to tour. The rest of the cricket teams isolated Pakistan. If these two teams could have showed the world that Pakistan was safe to tour, other teams would have come.

Now they will not come for a very long time, and Pakistan loses the World Cup, with all the $$ revenue that should have gone to Pakistan, going to India. Mukherjee's claims and threats to the Sri Lankans have come true

If the figure you have quoted were right, then Pakistan would have recd a flurry of requests. You forgot that all stadiums are not filled completly, esp during tests when its near empty, you forgot the complimentory tickets, you forgot the share paid to the visiting country. And how many stadiums have 80k capacity in Pakistan?

 

[roadrunner]

That is the crap I am talking about.
Special Forces of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
None of them carry rpgs. Why do special forces need rpgs, anyway? Most of them are response teams or counter terrorist forces.
Pakka false info. Designed to convince info oriented people.

Please give any info about rpg usage in Indian army.


FYI Gustavs are also with Pakistan army. So the route of Pakistan army -> mujahideen is also possible.
Carl Gustav recoilless rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please acknowledge this. This is about serious misinformation

You have your site, wikipedia, I have mine. Many sites are saying the same thing, RPG-22 is issued to the Indian forces.

Why would Pakistan's Army hand over Gustav's to the militants to blow up the Sri Lankans and tarnish the image of Pakistan? Are you suggesting Pakistan Army wants Pakistan to fail, and India to succeed?

 

[roadrunner]

If the figure you have quoted were right, then Pakistan would have recd a flurry of requests. You forgot that all stadiums are not filled completly, esp during tests when its near empty, you forgot the complimentory tickets, you forgot the share paid to the visiting country. And how many stadiums have 80k capacity in Pakistan?

All Pakistani stadiums have around the same capacity. Generally it's around that much.

The price generated is probably much higher. I was taking 500 rupees as a ticket price, but generally it's much higher, there's VIP boxes and areas of the ground that are more expensive.

Regardless, my point was that the income generated by per seat attendance is huge, BUT the much bigger price comes from the cuts that people receive for television rights, the pay by view money each TV company gets, the internet streaming deals. Remember the majority of Pakistanis watch these matches from their homes. There is also the local economy that gets the boost from the flurry of activity around the grounds, especially the local markets that get the income from the richer non local people. It's a very big stimulant.

We're talking billions of dollars per year in this case. That becomes huge when you have an economy that's just recently had to take out IMF loans.