India’s first bullet train corridor may be world’s cheapest high-speed service

[Jlaw]

Also

India：Mumbai-Ahmedabad 534-km，AC-I train，eight hours，Rs 1,895

China：Beijing-Shanghai 1454-km，EMU D-train（bullet train but not G-train），11 hours 42 mins，Rs 3,100

I say Indian rail services are BLOODY expensive。Extremely expensive when taking into account the fact that India's per capita GDP is about 1/5 China's。

Vedic Maths, Tips Tricks and Tutorials for Speed Mental Mathematics

No it comes out cheaper when you use Vedic math.

 

[Matrixx]

8 Hours ??
they are starting bullet train service or bullock cart Service ?

Read properly before trolling...Mr False flager.

 

[djsjs]

I bet India need 10 years before finish the first the 1st hsr line without China's help

 

[AndrewJin]

Yes apparently it does look expensive!

China HSR (2nd class i.e. "economy class", 300km/h) average pricing is RMB 41 (Rs 420) per 100 km. If use China as cost-efficiency benchmark then this HSR corridor should not be priced over Rs 2200.

If you take into consideration of huge income gap (which should lower building costs in the first place), the price should be further lowered for future travelers, or else it doesn't make any sense.

@AndrewJin any thoughts?

Thanks for tagging me. Let me give you numbers about similar 500km+ train in different class.

According to this model, the Mumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train fare works out to about Rs 2,800, calculated on the basis of the current AC-I train fare of Rs 1,895. Currently, trains on this route take about eight hours for the 534-km journey. The bullet train is expected to take less than two hours.

China HSR (2nd class i.e. "economy class", 300km/h) average pricing is RMB 41 (Rs 420) per 100 km. If use China as cost-efficiency benchmark then this HSR corridor should not be priced over Rs 2200.

Very true, bro.
The following routes are around 520-550km, similar to Mumbai-Ahmedabad.

1, 300km/h G train, second class
Shanghai-Suzhou East (宿州东), 558km, 2h20min, 254yuan(Rs 2599)
Second class of G train

2，200-250km/h D train, second class
Shenzhen SEZ- Xiamen North, 514km, 3h20min, 140yuan(Rs 1432)
Second class of D train

3, traditional train, 120-160km/h, soft bed/ hard bed/ hard seat
Beijing-Taiyuan, 524km, 5h10min

Soft Bed, 205yuan(Rs 2100)

Hard Bed, 133yuan (Rs 1361)

Hard Seat(A/C), 75yuan(Rs 767)

If you take into consideration of huge income gap (which should lower building costs in the first place), the price should be further lowered for future travelers, or else it doesn't make any sense.

You are right. The current income of India doesn't support HSR if the price is Rs2800 for 534km, which to me, is first class price. They have to subsidise ticket prices, you know only Tokyo-Osaka and Beijing-Shanghai HSR and several other HSRs in China are profitable.

In China, if a train is A/C train, all cars are quipped with A/C, no matter hard/soft bed or seat. If a train is non-A/C, all cars are non-A/C. Non-A/C train is almost non-existence, the only A/C trains become popular among railway fans. And we are crying.

Railway fans said goodbye to the final day of the last non-A/C train in Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region in Southeast China

@Bussard Ramjet What's your opinion about the prices of future HSR in India?

 

[guyhandz]

I speak only of truth, for truth alone prevails.

Do you deny that ancient India invented plastic surgery, gene therapy, zero, yoga, fusion power, space travel, teleportation and many other advanced technolgies?

Indian prime minister claims genetic science existed in ancient times | World news | The Guardian

Why can't reveal some TRUTH about US (Your Flag), China or Pakistan for a change. ?

 

[protest]

I speak only of truth, for truth alone prevails.

Do you deny that ancient India invented plastic surgery, gene therapy, zero, yoga, fusion power, space travel, teleportation and many other advanced technolgies?

Indian prime minister claims genetic science existed in ancient times | World news | The Guardian

I know you are a false flagger but still your obsession with India is just disgusting. May be you are getting paid to do it but I would kill myself than take up that as an occupation. Alas, kudos to you.

 

[AndrewJin]

arent you comparing the economic class of china's hsr with first class of mumbai-ahmedabad hsr ??

In which sentence of this news, first class is even mentioned? Do you know for a 8-car bullet train in China and Japan, at least 6 cars are second-class? No need to mention the price of first class, cause ordinary people take 2-nd class!!!

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Also

India：Mumbai-Ahmedabad 534-km，AC-I train，eight hours，Rs 1,895

China：Beijing-Shanghai 1454-km，EMU D-train（bullet train but not G-train），11 hours 42 mins，Rs 3,100

I say Indian rail services are BLOODY expensive。Extremely expensive when taking into account the fact that India's per capita GDP is about 1/5 China's。

In India, normal citizens travel in non AC coaches, that are significantly cheaper. The costs quoted are for AC coaches, that are for middle and upper middle class.

So while, India's middle class may be in absolute number only a fraction of China's, the paying capacity may not be that different (If you take uniform dollar based definition of middle class)

In India, the high fares for AC coaches are actually used to subsidize the lower coaches.

You can see this by coaches as well. Generally a train will have around 15 general coaches, and than 2-3 AC coaches.

 

[AndrewJin]

According to this model, the Mumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train fare works out to about Rs 2,800, calculated on the basis of the current AC-I train fare of Rs 1,895. Currently, trains on this route take about eight hours for the 534-km journey. The bullet train is expected to take less than two hours.

Japan’s Tohoku Shinkansen (Hayabusa trains) charges about Rs 8,000 for a 713-km ride on the Tokyo-Shin-Aomori sector. A second class ticket on China’s Jinghu High Speed Railway for the Beijing-Shanghai route costs over Rs 5,000.

Where is first class???
And Indians compare 500km to second class fare like 713km/Rs 8000 in Japan and 1300km+/RS5000 in China!

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Very noisy, and that AC 1 is the highest rank of normal trains?

This coach you see is the best India has to offer today. (Apart from another luxury train called Palace on Wheels, but that is a totally different matter.)

 

[AndrewJin]

normal citizens travel in non AC coaches

AC coaches, that are for middle and upper middle class.

A/C is luxury???
In China, if a train is A/C train, all cars including the lowest hard seat are A/C cars.
If a train is non-A/C(hardly seen nowadays), even soft bed, or deluxe soft bed has not A/C. We don't have that in Wuhan.

India's middle class may be in absolute number only a fraction of China's,

How to define Indian middle-class? Anyone who has A/C at home?

 

[Echo_419]

I bet India need 10 years before finish the first the 1st hsr line without China's help

Lol you are cute

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Thanks for tagging me. Let me give you numbers about similar 500km+ train in different class.



Very true, bro.
The following routes are around 520-550km, similar to Mumbai-Ahmedabad.

1, 300km/h G train, second class
Shanghai-Suzhou East (宿州东), 558km, 2h20min, 254yuan(Rs 2599)
Second class of G train
View attachment 232684

2，200-250km/h D train, second class
Shenzhen SEZ- Xiamen North, 514km, 3h20min, 140yuan(Rs 1432)
Second class of D train
View attachment 232685

3, traditional train, 120-160km/h, soft bed/ hard bed/ hard seat
Beijing-Taiyuan, 524km, 5h10min

Soft Bed, 205yuan(Rs 2100)
View attachment 232687
View attachment 232688

Hard Bed, 133yuan (Rs 1361)
View attachment 232691

Hard Seat(A/C), 75yuan(Rs 767)
View attachment 232692
View attachment 232693



You are right. The current income of India doesn't support HSR if the price is Rs2800 for 534km, which to me, is first class price. They have to subsidise ticket prices, you know only Tokyo-Osaka and Beijing-Shanghai HSR and several other HSRs in China are profitable.

In China, if a train is A/C train, all cars are quipped with A/C, no matter hard/soft bed or seat. If a train is non-A/C, all cars are non-A/C. Non-A/C train is almost non-existence, the only A/C trains become popular among railway fans. And we are crying.

Railway fans said goodbye to the final day of the last non-A/C train in Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region in Southeast China
View attachment 232710


@Bussard Ramjet What's your opinion about the prices of future HSR in India?

To be frank, my knowledge about any railway system in the world is less than your knowledge of Wuhan railway station alone

But Mumbai, Ahmedabad are two very rich cities, and if a bullet train runs which takes 2 hours, it will be heavily used. (Many people are sceptical of planes, and anyways, in India, check in and check out for planes may take hours) Railways always have a leg up for distances upto 700km.

Also, in India, there are reasonable amount of rich people.

Also, I have very limited information over how that pricing model works. I am sure they wouldn't have included land costs, or rehabilitation costs. Are they only talking about operational costs? Or are they talking about price after including possible subsidy after operational cost?

 

[AndrewJin]

Lol you are cute

@Echo_419 Let''s back to topic, shall we? I think you are very supportive of HSR, and I have read your comments in my HSR thread before.
Do you think 250km/h more feasible than 350km/h in India?
Pls read my post#40, prices of D train(200-250km/h) in China.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

A/C is luxury???
In China, if a train is A/C train, all cars including the lowest hard seat are A/C cars.
If a train is non-A/C(hardly seen nowadays), even soft bed, or deluxe soft bed has not A/C. We don't have that in Wuhan.


How to define Indian middle-class? Anyone who has A/C at home?

As I say, most middle class people will travel in ACs, and ACs are common in middle class homes.
How do you define it?

Let's say a family of 4 where the parents earn 10 lakh annual income are middle class, and will always chose AC coach.

10 lakh mean, a million ruppees, which mean 100,000 yuan broadly (I have taken 1 yuan = 10 ruppee)

Also, remember if we are talking about living standards of people, in that case PPP is a better criterion to measure. So in that way lets say the living standard is around 200,000 yuan. (By assuming a factor of PPP adjustment to be 2)