India's caste system goes back 2,000 years, genetic study finds

[bronxbull]

The fact remains there was an Aryan migration from Andronovo or possibly from the norther regions of Afghanistan perhaps. Genetic studies prove Eurasian & Central Asian mixture in the north western & northern regions of the Sub-Continent. Some people say that that migration took place in the Bronze age so the Aryans were more advanced than the Harappans. The most interesting part is that the vast majority of Indo-Aryan lineages happen to be male. If they were indigenous in origin then Aryan female lineages would be prevalent in equal amounts at least because no ethnic group exists without its women. This indicates the migrants were male as far as the Indus is concerned. That also gives rise to the possibility of conflict because the Indo-Aryans would require women to marry & mate with, & no other people would have easily handed over their women to them.

I agree.

I would like to compare MtDNA between Iranians/Pashtuns/Pak Punjabis and North Indians.

 

[manlion]

vedas were written before krishna,

Rig veda is just sounds,Yajur/Sama Vedas are rituals,Atharvana Veda is mysticism.

Krishna is outside the realm of all this.

what you claim contradicts with the statement made by

Vedas are supreme Hindu scriptures, other Hindu scriptures comes after that.

please resolve the inconsistency among st your selves, thanks

 

[INDIC]

what you claim contradicts with the statement made by



please resolve the inconsistency among st your selves, thanks

What inconsistency are you referring to, I can't find any. How can Manlion the Pakistani can understand this.

 

[Developereo]

Absolutely wrong. The real translation has no reference to 'India' at all.

What region does it refer to, according to you?

 

[Bang Galore]

What I am saying is that this generalized meaning of the word mleccha was a later development, and its origin stems from the IVC.

Again, no way to prove it without deciphering the IVC script, but linguists consider the Sumerian and Sanskrit words to be related.

Not very late. The Rg veda is knowlegeable upto Afghanistan We would (to accept your view)have to assume that the IVC were contemporaneous with the vedic people(very few argue that) and that would almost certainly be a deathknell to anyone voicing any support to the AIT. As I have said earlier, post the Rg vedic period, there was a mild suspicion of the areas west of the Indus (the region outside of Aryavarta) but familiarity was maintained & the Mahabharat has both characters & armies from Afghanistan fighting as kinsmen with the kings of Northern India. Unlikely if they were thought of as mlecchas.

 

[Armstrong]

What region does it refer to, according to you?

Sir aaap kii kaun siii caste haiii ?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Go through this first -
Source - Ancient Indian Social History: Some Interpretations - Romila Thapar - Google Books
The Mlecchas who also fought were shown as people who live in caves, mountains etc. They are not ISVC(Indus Saraswati Valley Civilization)
Source - Parasher, Aloka (1991). Mlecchas in Early India: A Study in Attitudes toward Outsiders upto AD 600. New Delhi: Munshiram Manoharial Publishers
And of course - Dronaparva of Mahabharata - The Mahabharata, Book 7: Drona Parva: Jayadratha-Vadha Parva: Section XCII
'having the deceptive powers of the Ahuras/Asuras' and born of the cattle/cow. Of interest is the fact the the Avesta/Persian deity Mithra was also worshiped as the Guardian of Cattle.

Mlecchas also called Mlekkas by Buddhists resided mainly from Gandhara and Kamboja to the West. Also called as Asuras which may be also know as Ahuras.

It says northern side of India, not north of India.



What I am saying is that this generalized meaning of the word mleccha was a later development, and its origin stems from the IVC.

Again, no way to prove it without deciphering the IVC script, but linguists consider the Sumerian and Sanskrit words to be related.

 

[Roybot]

It says northern side of India, not north of India.

Disha/Disham means direction. Northern side of India can also be interpreted as north of India rather than northern part of India.

And in any case, even iff we go by that translation, "northern side" of India doesn't coincide with IVC.

Vedic India

IVC

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

I agree.

I would like to compare MtDNA between Iranians/Pashtuns/Pak Punjabis and North Indians.

What about us Kashmiris? We are considered the purest Indo-Aryans by many.

Anyway, you may refer to these sources if you want. I didn't get time to go through the second source word by word yet.

Genetic evidence suggests European migrants may have influenced
the origins of India's caste system

Genetic Evidence on the Origins of Indian Caste Populations

These studies mainly focus on India. I am assuming that Pakistanis would have even greater Indo-European mixture because that is after all where the migrants entered from, besides some of our ethnic groups are purely Indo-Iranian/Aryan.

The Aryan invasion theory proposed by Max Mueller is discredited, but Aryan migration & settling towards the later era of the Harappan civilization is generally considered valid according to these studies. We also have linguistic & other historical evidence from other civilizations of the existence of the Indo-Aryan people.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Good question.

I have posted just a few seconds ago. The historical place of the Mlecchas was around Gandhara and Kamboj (Indo Iranian Ksatriya tribes). Easter Persia and Southern Afghanistan. Also perhaps including some western parts of Balochistan.

What region does it refer to, according to you?

 

[Developereo]

Not very late. The Rg veda is knowlegeable upto Afghanistan We would (to accept your view)have to assume that the IVC were contemporaneous with the vedic people(very few argue that) and that would almost certainly be a deathknell to anyone voicing any support to the AIT.

It is believed that the Aryans crossed paths with the late-era Harappans, so nothing too revolutionary there.

the Mahabharat has both characters & armies from Afghanistan fighting as kinsmen with the kings of Northern India. Unlikely if they were thought of as mlecchas.

That just means that the Aryans had kinship with Afghanistan/Central Asia, and could have come from there. It says nothing about the IVC itself.

In any case, to reject the linguists claim that the two words are cognates and to claim that the Sanskrit mleccha is unrelated, one would have to provide a purely Sanskrit etymology for the word involving 'tongues' or 'foreign'. I would be interested to know if such exists.

Sir aaap kii kaun siii caste haiii ?

No idea.

The Mlecchas who also fought were shown as people who live in caves, mountains etc. They are not ISVC(Indus Saraswati Valley Civilization)

Read this thread first. The term mleccha became generalized over time. We are talking about its origins, not its generalized usage.

 

[Developereo]

And in any case, even iff we go by that translation, "northern side" of India doesn't coincide with IVC.

Both MohenjoDaro and Harappa look pretty "northern" in that map of Vedic India.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Absolutely not. Gandhar and Kamboj can be considered north.

Both MohenjoDaro and Harappa look pretty "northern" in that map of Vedic India.

Besides where in the shlokas is 'India' btw???

 

[Developereo]

Besides where in the shlokas is 'India' btw???

See post #173

 

[474474]

Tell me where they were from?

It is possible to tell.



I have seen people and seen their DNA results,i dont want to read fake studies.

Broadly all Indians are a mix of Large caucasoid,medium mongloid and little australoid.

And then comes the ANI+ASI,neither of which are pure Caucasoid or Australoid.

dadi=bihar
nani=u.p.
nana=bombay
dada=some sort of pathan but too confusing to be sure