India's Biggest $25 Billion Defence Deal to Crash Land

[BDforever]

This is not aaa$$ hole BD who got scared so easily, we already face your BAAP 3 times and got you freedom from your BAAP who every day used to raaaap you.

i just hit the nerve pagla gaya

 

[Zarvan]

India's Biggest $25 Billion Defence Deal to Crash Land
By Pradip R Sagar

Published: 24th Apr 2016 04:03:54 AM

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  A file photo of US F16 jet fighter | AFP

NEW DELHI: India has a record of sour defence deals. While the Rafael deal with France to buy 36 fighters jets at nearly `60,000 crore is stuck over a year despite announcement made by PM Narendra Modi during his Paris visit in April 2015, India’s biggest defence buy with its old military hardware partner Russia threatens to crash. It is thrice bigger than the French deal and concerns 127 Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) costing over $25 billion. `1,500 crore, which India has already paid for preliminary design of the aircraft, may go down the drain. It is the IAF—despite desperation to strengthen its combat fleet—that has put its foot down, citing differences with Russia, the co-developer of the FGFA project.

In an internal communication to the Ministry of Defence, the Air Headquarters has flagged at least 15 objections to the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), ranging from fighter’s unreliable engine, poor stealth features, and inadequate radar to its high cost overrun. The letter sent last month has virtually grounded the entire program.

“Under the present scenario, only a political call can revive the program,” a highly placed source said.

In fact, IAF went further to slam Russians for not giving access to the developed prototypes of the aircraft to its pilots. Moreover, it also expressed apprehension that the Russians would not share critical design information with India because they have deliberately reduced the Indian work share despite India’s huge expenditure on the preliminary design. India’s work share in FGFA research and development and other aspects of the multi-billion dollar project at the moment is nearly 10 per cent, even though Delhi is bearing 50 per cent of the project cost.

In 2007, the Congress-led UPA government had signed an inter-governmental agreement with Russia to co-develop the next generation FGFA. It was followed by the $295 million (`1,483 crore) preliminary design contract (PDC) in December 2010. The overall FGFA project cost for making all the 127 fighters in India was pegged at around $25 billion.

The preliminary design stage of the FGFA programme was completed in June 2013 based on a contract signed in December 2010 with the Russian side.

As per the Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) signed in October 2007, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is the designated implementation organisation from the Indian side. HAL is supported by agencies, including Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR).

The programme requires further $6 billion towards its research and development contract. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar-led defence acquisition council has to give its approval for the R&D contract. It is believed that the delivery of FGFA to the IAF will begin only after nearly eight years from the start of the R&D contract.

“The ministry is in a dilemma over the future of the program after resistance from the IAF. But simultaneously, the Indian government has already spent a sizeable amount of Rs 1,500 crore on the program. And if the program does not make, spent money might go in waste,” said an official. This deal created controversy during 2011, when a clause was inserted in violation of the defence procurement policy to give contract to Russia to provide International Private Leased Circuit (IPLC) bandwidth connectivity between Bangalore-Moscow-Irkutsk to lay communication lines between the two partners.

IAF’s depleting combat strength has been a cause of concern as it is down to 34 fighter squadrons against 42 of its authorised strength based on certain projections in the next couple of years. IAF is getting four squadrons of Su-30 and subsequently indigenously built Light Combat aircraft Tejas is expected to fill the critical requirement of the force.

Collision Course

■ IAF claims developed engine of FGFA was not reliable

■ Inadequate radar and stealth features

■ Huge cost over-run

■ India’s reduced share. Lack of participation by IAF in the design phase

■ IAF apprehensive that Russia will not share technology


http://www.newindianexpress.com/the...l-to-Crash-Land/2016/04/24/article3396450.ece

Wow, so it sounds like Russia's 5th generation attempt is crashing and burning.

Makes me wonder about China's attempts.

At least where it comes to the J-31, the fact that China is not buying it themselves and only Pakistan has even expressed interest (no commitment) tells me that its likely a failure.

This is China's chance to leapfrog Russia in anycase, I wonder if they can do it with the J-20.If Russia is having trouble with the engines, then I have doubts when it comes to China, who has had trouble developing one and historically relies on Russian engines.

You are free to assume what ever you want to but fact is China is catching up fast and they would come up with great 5th Generation Fighter Jets

 

[anon45]

You are free to assume what ever you want to but fact is China is catching up fast and they would come up with great 5th Generation Fighter Jets

Fact is we don't know the facts when it comes to Russia and China's fifth gen programs. The best sources we have are the buyers, outside of their own government, but the picture those paint haven't been good for the J-31 and Russia's own fifth gen program. Specifically with Russia India's problems with it are core problems with design, not problems with implementation. If this was just coming from an editorial goon that had not seen or tested the plane, I would dismiss it, but we are talking about professionals who have seen and (presumably) tested the Jet.


This isn't just me assuming, these are actual concerns from an actual airforce who have likely done actual testing.

 

[knight11]

AND i stopped reading!!
I understand that IAF is going to buy Rafale and surely as an India you will like this bird but that wont bring it in same league as F22 or F35 or J20 or PAKFA or ANYOTHER freaking fight generation plan. If you are of the view that Rafale is 5th gen war capable and will be able to deal with the 5th gen planes, i rest my case and wish you the very best of luck sir.

Good luck for you then, but in case you forgot to read the last line -- 5th Generation Air warfare CAPABLE. My suggestion 5th Generation warfare is different than the Stealth fighter plane. Planes like Rafale, EF-2000 and Su-35 is 5th generation warfare capable and Stealth to be precise LO is just one capability, but real capability lies in the high speed 2 way link, MDPU data processing capability, LPI Radar, Sensor fussion, and to work in netcentric and coordinated warfare with many assets in the battlefield as a single unit and not as an indivisual hardware.

 

[Arsalan]

Good luck for you then, but in case you forgot to read the last line -- 5th Generation Air warfare CAPABLE. My suggestion 5th Generation warfare is different than the Stealth fighter plane. Planes like Rafale, EF-2000 and Su-35 is 5th generation warfare capable and Stealth to be precise LO is just one capability, but real capability lies in the high speed 2 way link, MDPU data processing capability, LPI Radar, Sensor fussion, and to work in netcentric and coordinated warfare with many assets in the battlefield as a single unit and not as an indivisual hardware.

No doubts about that. Still there are a lot of differences. I would have gone into all the details as well but i feel that @C130 have given a nice summary and i do feel that you will understand these differences as well now that these are pointed.

I like the Rafale and it has some capabilities that you could consider on par with 5th gen like the F-35, but it simply falls short,

Price- F-35
Stealth-F-35
Radar-F-35
EW/Avionics-F-35 (though Spectra is touted as revolutionary)
Range-Rafale
Maneuverability-Rafale
Supercruise- Rafale (4 AAM+ 1 Drop tank)
Weapons-F-35


I would still have a hard time chosing either the F-35 or Rafale F3R guess it would come down to Price and what you need.

 

[knight11]

No doubts about that. Still there are a lot of differences. I would have gone into all the details as well but i feel that @C130 have given a nice summary and i do feel that you will understand these differences as well now that these are pointed.

What he said is correct, but as far as my understanding says then if your opponent too is 5th gen capable, then the two stealth fight actually will be with the so called 6th Gen aircraft aka VLO Combat UCAS/UAV and the 5th Gen. fighter plane guiding them from the safer distance. Actually those Gen. are only marketing term, and in real life there is no such Generation. For the sucess of the Stealth fighter plane against the Stealth enemy, you need stealth UAV, that could fire the long range BVR, and remain safer due to its even LO RCS value and then turn in 90 degree.