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India's Biggest $25 Billion Defence Deal to Crash Land

They can't dicate the timelines but they are getting the Rafales, check back in 21 months brother ;)
Hi,

Been hearing thos for past two years now Sire and too from you.

Honestly speaking I am all up for India getting Raffles, it will change the entire situation in Sub-continent. PAF will also speed up its procurement of new line of jets, we too can expect some Hi tech goodies
 
Hi,

Been hearing thos for past two years now Sire and too from you.

Honestly speaking I am all up for India getting Raffles, it will change the entire situation in Sub-continent. PAF will also speed up its procurement of new line of jets, we too can expect some Hi tech goodies
To be honest, I've been hearing this for a long time too, before it was the J-10, then the J-11, then the J-31, then the Su-35 next it will be....

As far as I can see, the PAF still haven't levelled the playing feild from 300+ MKIs entering the IAF. The 100+ (cumlative) MiG-29UPG and Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 are enough to handle the entire F-16 force of the PAF, they don't even have to commit many MKIs and the Rafale is coming in and the LCA also (thereby addressing the present day weak spots of the IAF- the MiG-21s and 27s). You will either need to have a qulatative or quantitative advantadge but the PAF has neither and the gap is only widening (a reflection of the wider economic gap). One can hide behind "our pilots/tactics are superior" but.....
 
To be honest, I've been hearing this for a long time too, before it was the J-10, then the J-11, then the J-31, then the Su-35 next it will be....

As far as I can see, the PAF still haven't levelled the playing feild from 300+ MKIs entering the IAF. The 100+ (cumlative) MiG-29UPG and Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 are enough to handle the entire F-16 force of the PAF, they don't even have to commit many MKIs and the Rafale is coming in and the LCA also (thereby addressing the present day weak spots of the IAF- the MiG-21s and 27s). You will either need to have a qulatative or quantitative advantadge but the PAF has neither and the gap is only widening (a reflection of the wider economic gap). One can hide behind "our pilots/tactics are superior" but.....
Who says we have to go head on head with the force six times our size in every aspect ?

Given the limited budget we have, PAf has done far better job than IAF here.
 
Who says we have to go head on head with the force six times our size in every aspect ?

Given the limited budget we have, PAf has done far better job than IAF here.
You keep moving the goal posts bro, I make one point and then you say something entirely seperate. I was simply stating a fact by saying that the parity Pakisan hopes to maintain is an elusive myth and the idea that the Rafale is somehow going to prompt a response from the PAF is rather bizzare considering the introduction of 300+ Su-30MKIs has illicted almost no response from them.
 
By Pradip R Sagar

Published: 24th Apr 2016 04:03:54 AM

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NEW DELHI: India has a record of sour defence deals. While the Rafael deal with France to buy 36 fighters jets at nearly `60,000 crore is stuck over a year despite announcement made by PM Narendra Modi during his Paris visit in April 2015, India’s biggest defence buy with its old military hardware partner Russia threatens to crash. It is thrice bigger than the French deal and concerns 127 Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) costing over $25 billion. `1,500 crore, which India has already paid for preliminary design of the aircraft, may go down the drain. It is the IAF—despite desperation to strengthen its combat fleet—that has put its foot down, citing differences with Russia, the co-developer of the FGFA project.

In an internal communication to the Ministry of Defence, the Air Headquarters has flagged at least 15 objections to the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), ranging from fighter’s unreliable engine, poor stealth features, and inadequate radar to its high cost overrun. The letter sent last month has virtually grounded the entire program.

“Under the present scenario, only a political call can revive the program,” a highly placed source said.

In fact, IAF went further to slam Russians for not giving access to the developed prototypes of the aircraft to its pilots. Moreover, it also expressed apprehension that the Russians would not share critical design information with India because they have deliberately reduced the Indian work share despite India’s huge expenditure on the preliminary design. India’s work share in FGFA research and development and other aspects of the multi-billion dollar project at the moment is nearly 10 per cent, even though Delhi is bearing 50 per cent of the project cost.

In 2007, the Congress-led UPA government had signed an inter-governmental agreement with Russia to co-develop the next generation FGFA. It was followed by the $295 million (`1,483 crore) preliminary design contract (PDC) in December 2010. The overall FGFA project cost for making all the 127 fighters in India was pegged at around $25 billion.

The preliminary design stage of the FGFA programme was completed in June 2013 based on a contract signed in December 2010 with the Russian side.

As per the Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) signed in October 2007, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is the designated implementation organisation from the Indian side. HAL is supported by agencies, including Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR).

The programme requires further $6 billion towards its research and development contract. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar-led defence acquisition council has to give its approval for the R&D contract. It is believed that the delivery of FGFA to the IAF will begin only after nearly eight years from the start of the R&D contract.

“The ministry is in a dilemma over the future of the program after resistance from the IAF. But simultaneously, the Indian government has already spent a sizeable amount of Rs 1,500 crore on the program. And if the program does not make, spent money might go in waste,” said an official. This deal created controversy during 2011, when a clause was inserted in violation of the defence procurement policy to give contract to Russia to provide International Private Leased Circuit (IPLC) bandwidth connectivity between Bangalore-Moscow-Irkutsk to lay communication lines between the two partners.

IAF’s depleting combat strength has been a cause of concern as it is down to 34 fighter squadrons against 42 of its authorised strength based on certain projections in the next couple of years. IAF is getting four squadrons of Su-30 and subsequently indigenously built Light Combat aircraft Tejas is expected to fill the critical requirement of the force.

Collision Course

■ IAF claims developed engine of FGFA was not reliable

■ Inadequate radar and stealth features

■ Huge cost over-run

■ India’s reduced share. Lack of participation by IAF in the design phase

■ IAF apprehensive that Russia will not share technology

@Abingdonboy @wiseone2

India has not spent $25 billion. It is contingent on Russians making the aircraft meet specifications

Hi,

Sir This is not some media paid news is it ? IAF seriously concerned about depleting sqd strength then delay in tejas and Rafael drama and now this.

Russians are deliberately doing this, perhaps expressing their displeasure with how India is cozying up with USa and all

Russia is joining the Western alliance in a decade or so
Pakistan is pretty much going to at the mercy of China
 
India has not spent $25 billion. It is contingent on Russians making the aircraft meet specifications



Russia is joining the Western alliance in a decade or so
Pakistan is pretty much going to at the mercy of China
Hi,

Russian joining Western alliance ? LAMO is that reason why they were buzzing over baltic sea :rofl:

Mercy of China ? regarding what.
I smell serious jealousy in this illogical post of yours

As always you have not disappointed me a bit by demonstrating the moronic standards of your posts
 
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