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And more importantly the date. There is no shortage of articles, reports, editorials criticizing the Arjun prior to 2006.
I am not so disappointed in the DRDO. What I'm disappointed in is its swadeshi attitude. The DRDO should have complemented foreign purchases, instead of trying to supplement them. The IGBMP is a top-priority for example because ballistic missiles aren't something that are available in the global arms market. The legal arms market that is. The DRDO has an annual budget of about $700 million while the Chinese spending on R&D judged to be between $5-10 billion. The babu culture is another downer. An IAS officer wouldn't understand why a DRDO engineer or scientist should be paid higher than he is. But, fact remains that DRDO are half of those offered in the private sector. The DRDO needs to be restructured and competely independant of the home ministry's or defence ministry's strings. Privatisation is not the answer IMO. Private players should be allowed to enter the sector independently not by buying out the DRDO.I agree. DRDO is a typical example of an institution that needs to be closed down, and it's projects handed over to private industry. That is why the defense forces have such a low confidence in them, and end up "ordering out".
That I believe is because the Arjun's reputation precedes its induction. The Arjun has a poor history. Always failing some test or the other. Very publicised failures. Its success of late isn't something that the ordinary Indian knows about, is it? The Arjun was finally inducted because the Arjun was found worthy of service by the Army. The army will make furthur orders. No hurry. There's plenty of time. The 124 tanks will take time to be built.All that said, the Arjun in itself has turned out as a fine beast. But the Army does not want it now. Why?
The Arjun is not a misfit in the army's doctrine. The Armored Corps is deluding themselves if they think they are a fast hard hitting forces. You've only to see the time taking to mobilise. The Arjun isn't a slow lumbering giant as its touted to be. Its capable of blending in any role the army may want to use it in.This tank is capable of out running it's logistical supply lines and does not fit the Armored Corps. fighting doctrine. It's stand off capability with the Lahat missile ( which will decimate a T-90) is impressive, but where do you put it to use?
If you were gived a choice between a squadron of M1A2s against four squadrons of T-90s who'd you put your shirt on? Mine's on the Abrams. Now buying four squadrons of Abrams would be an overkill.It's like me taking a Hummer to the store to buy a gallon of milk. Overkill? absolutely! would I fit in the convenience store's parking lot?....errrrr!
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If you were gived a choice between a squadron of M1A2s against four squadrons of T-90s who'd you put your shirt on? Mine's on the Abrams. Now buying four squadrons of Abrams would be an overkill.
The best APFDS cannot pierce the M1A2's depleted uranium armor in one shot. Four shots would take it out but then all four aren't landing on the same part of the tank. And I don't believe the T-90s will be able to hit the Abrams 4:1. The Abrams crew will have a much much superior situational awareness. Also its better crew comfort will translate into better performance in battle. Its not a simple game of who gets the first shot off.Indeed an Abraham may be superior to the T-90 but that is a very statement than to say that it could successfully take on T-90's outnumbered 4-1. The reason why this can not be logical is because these two tanks have around the same engagement range, now when they first fire assuming all their shells hit the targets every Abraham is hit four times while only 1/4 of the T-90's will be hit. I mean even if the Abraham isnt destroyed by four strikes while one T-90 is destroyed, in the second engagement, the three remaining T-90's would hit the Abraham while the Abraham would only get off a single shot destroying one T-90. The Abraham has now been hit 7 times, and has destroyed 2 T-90's with another 2 left. An Abrahram after being hit 7 times by a T-90 and not being disabled or destroyed is quite unbelievable.
The best APFDS cannot pierce the M1A2's depleted uranium armor in one shot. Four shots would take it out but then all four are not going land on the same section of the tank. And I don't believe the T-90s will be able to hit the Abrams 4:1. The Abrams crew will have a much much superior situational awareness. Also its better crew comfort will translate into better performance in battle. Its not a simple game of who gets the first shot off. The T-72 did hit the Abrams during the gulf wars but the shells simply bounced off. The Abrams has only been hit once and that was by another Abrams and even that didn't destroy it, just crippled it.
There you are hit with one shot... Do you think that you can continue fighting like you aren't hit? Within 6 seconds another hit will come. And what do you think about the uranium particles? I do not believe that there will be no hole after a hit. Any source?
Let me put ut simple. The German lost war in Belgium even with superior tiger and king tiger tanks. They lost it to a smaller, cheaper and simpler tank. If you want to compare tanks to eachother then just compare tanks and not the environment around... There would be not huge difference. And T72 (not upgraded) comparing with latest US tank? Sounds silly to me.
And you do remember the pictures of abraham burning after been hit with a simple RPG? Knowing tha fact that terrorist or rebels get better an better options there is no tank safe. Israel had to retreat even with super tanks called Merkava. Does that mean that it makes bad tanks? I don't think so. It depends on environment...
p.s. This is non political. US, Israel, India or Pakistan... Doesn't matter. Countries are the same. People are the same.
p.s.2 Arjun was marked as super tank. Other say it is junk. It is probably a nice tank but not suited for the dessert warfare like AK. Speed an firepower... Less protection. Does that mean Arjun is bad? I think it would do super in hilly or European arena...
Absolutely. What's the point of having superior armor if one shot cripples you?There you are hit with one shot... Do you think that you can continue fighting like you aren't hit?
No problem unless it hits the same place where the previous shell hit it. And even then my money's on the Abrams.Within 6 seconds another hit will come.
Cancer rates will increase in the inhabitants of the area? How does it affect the battle. The NBC kit on the M1A2 will protect the crew.And what do you think about the uranium particles?
The best Russian FSAPDS(Fin Stabilised Armor Piercing Discarded Sabot) cannot make a hole in the Abrams armor. The depleted uranium armor isn't something you find on every tank.I do not believe that there will be no hole after a hit. Any source?
I was talking about the T-90.And T72 (not upgraded) comparing with latest US tank? Sounds silly to me.
No I haven't seen it. Perhaps you'd care to post it.And you do remember the pictures of abraham burning after been hit with a simple RPG?
We're not talking about urban anti-insurgency operations. We're talking about a full-fledged tank battle. The Merkava's frontal arc has never been pierced incidently. And tank battles will in 90% cases be frontal.Israel had to retreat even with super tanks called Merkava. Does that mean that it makes bad tanks? I don't think so. It depends on environment...
I have no idea what you're getting at.p.s. This is non political. US, Israel, India or Pakistan... Doesn't matter. Countries are the same. People are the same.
I'd like to point out two things. First, in the Thar desert the tanks ground pressure is what matters. The Arjun's ground pressure is lower than that of the T-90. In the low hull position its silhoutte is NOT significantly more visible compared to the T-series. Second, the entire Indo-Pak border isn't a part of the Thar desert (read Punjab and lower J&K).Arjun was marked as super tank. Other say it is junk. It is probably a nice tank but not suited for the dessert warfare like AK.
It is a waste of time to talk to posters like this. Somehow they just are not realistic... The forum might go for quatity but it is totally not up to any level of quality.
It depends where you have been hit. But if you have been in a modern tank then you would know that there is not much room where the bullet can go in and out without causing serious damage... And if you have a hole then you can have multiple NBC ideas but it surely will not help... Wait... I am not here to treat stupid Indians... Dream on.
It is a waste of time to talk to posters like this. Somehow they just are not realistic... The forum might go for quatity but it is totally not up to any level of quality.
It depends where you have been hit. But if you have been in a modern tank then you would know that there is not much room where the bullet can go in and out without causing serious damage... And if you have a hole then you can have multiple NBC ideas but it surely will not help... Wait... I am not here to treat stupid Indians... Dream on.
Practically every tank battle will be frontal. And the frontal arc is where the tank's armor is the strongest.It depends where you have been hit.
Bullet? All I said was the T-90's shell cannot penetrate the Abrams armor. I didn't say it would make a hole and the M1 would live to see another day. There will be no hole.But if you have been in a modern tank then you would know that there is not much room where the bullet can go in and out without causing serious damage... And if you have a hole then you can have multiple NBC ideas but it surely will not help...
Practically every tank battle will be frontal. And the frontal arc is where the tank's armor is the strongest.
Bullet? All I said was the T-90's shell cannot penetrate the Abrams armor. I didn't say it would make a hole and the M1 would live to see another day. There will be no hole.