‘Indians never knew Pakistan was so modern’

[Contrarian]

Forgot to include Internet in that statement Monsieur.. apologies.

However, it is odd that a nation that is usually touted as the emerging Asian twin power has so little interest in what happens outside its borders. And by that I refer to the Media and educational exposure. Even the much maligned Americans have made some efforts to find out about mexico and Canada.

You are being uncharitable to the aam admi @Oscar

Canada and Mexico are both very relevant to Americans - for trade/tourism/collaboration/busines.

Were Pakistan an important place on the global map for any positive reason - whether business or tourism or anything, Indians would have more information about Pakistan.

Once that changes, say Pakistan becomes a very successful tourism destination, or Pakistan becomes renowned for technology/medicine/engineering/etc, or heck, if India had a lot of trade with Pakistan..it would naturally become an object of reference and thus knowledge for Indians. As of now, its a non entity barring in public consciousness except for either terrorism or some actor/actress.

You are simply asking Indians - who have to work hard to be able to afford 2 meals and make ends meet while drowning in EMI payments monthly - to be aware of aspects of Pakistan. Not logical.

It's not just about Pakistan. Indians are the most insular people, period. Ask a tamil about the most popular serial in Delhi. He will have no clue. Ask any number of Indians from all over India about Nepal. Half of them will say it is part of India. Many don't even know that Northeast is a part of India. As a Jammuite, I have no idea about South Indians. I probably know more about Pakistan than tamil nadu or karnataka or andhra pradesh. Never been south of Taj Mahal.
Pakistan's population is less than UP. Ask people if they can name 5 cities in UP. Most Indians outside UP won't be able to.

I am witness to this phenomenon wherein Northern Indians were quite lost as to what goes on in the south.... and the Kashmir issue.. mattered very little to those of the South.

Absolutely correct.
Though that is now changing because of work patterns and media. There is unprecedented level of migration in India because of work.
IT has been the cornerstone in this. Lakhs of North Indians migrated to South to work in the Big Companies which made IT campus's in the South.

Later on IT giants opened centers in North for which South Indians came.

And as of now - Tamil Nadu is probably third in India is manufacturing, again lakhs of North Indians are migrating for blue collar jobs.

All this in the last 1-1.5 decades only. Before that migration was far far lesser.

 

[blackface]

Ye thoda jada ho gaya



Man you just compare life style of Brazil to Indian sub continent.

Man Brazil is way way far ahead when it comes to freedom of women and morality.

But our way of living is different, women are seen in different light. Put some how i want a mix of modernity and morality in our part of world.

Well that's my whole point. No South Asian country can be considered modern. India may be slightly more modern than Pakistan but compared to Western or east asian countries, it is not modern at all. Even Turkey is quite modern compared to its neighbours but not quite as modern as Europe/E.Asia/Americas/Australia

 

[Joe Shearer]

The connection - I don't know what the connection is...I was merely making small talk !

Its not as if the rest of the thread is anything but a cauldron laced with pious sentiments, jingoism & pseudo-empathy !

I don't even know what a Shiv Lingam is but it looked as if an oblong shaped stone was protruding from the ground with a broken coconut over it & the guide said that Hindus from Pakistan & pilgrims from India every year come to this place to pray to that Shiva Idol & cleanse themselves in the pond near it !

The Government signboards near it were saying the same thing & they did mention a British Archaeologist by the name of Sir Alexander Cunningham who discovered these Temples in the 1800s & the legend, as told by the Guide & those Signboards, revolved around Lord Shiva crying about something & his tears fell from the heavens & made these ponds !

I don't know how true or untrue it is but there was also a Hanuman Temple, a Buddhist Stumpa & a Haveli belonging to some notable that was excavated a few years ago from that site !

I just thought you might find it interesting - How was I supposed to know I'd be placed in interrogation providing evidence for whether it really was from 300 BC or not ?

For a moment, before I looked it up, I thought those temples were somewhere in Jammu, and I thought it'd be a good idea to reach over and strangle you.

A Shiv lingam is, umm, a Shiv lingam. Let's just leave it at that.

Sir Alexander Cunningham is one of the towering colossuses of Indian archaeology and numismatics. Look him up, read him, read about him. A well-spent life.

 

[livingdead]

The connection - I don't know what the connection is...I was merely making small talk !

Its not as if the rest of the thread is anything but a cauldron laced with pious sentiments, jingoism & pseudo-empathy !

I don't even know what a Shiv Lingam is but it looked as if an oblong shaped stone was protruding from the ground with a broken coconut over it & the guide said that Hindus from Pakistan & pilgrims from India every year come to this place to pray to that Shiva Idol & cleanse themselves in the pond near it !

The Government signboards near it were saying the same thing & they did mention a British Archaeologist by the name of Sir Alexander Cunningham who discovered these Temples in the 1800s & the legend, as told by the Guide & those Signboards, revolved around Lord Shiva crying about something & his tears fell from the heavens & made these ponds !

I don't know how true or untrue it is but there was also a Hanuman Temple, a Buddhist Stumpa & a Haveli belonging to some notable that was excavated a few years ago from that site !

I just thought you might find it interesting - How was I supposed to know I'd be placed in interrogation providing evidence for whether it really was from 300 BC or not ?

its a phallus of hindu god shiva ( one of major hindu gods, and part of a troika that is responsible for most of the things that happen.. or does not) which we worship...

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

As a Brazilian I have different conceptions of morality. I don't think there is anything bad for women to wear bikinis, to drink, and to have premartial sex. Women should be allowed to wear whatever they want, provided they are not naked (as nice as that could be). Moving towards a greater degree of freedom is positive change in my book and one of the hallmarks of modernity.

Were we talking about morality? lol I think concept of morality vary person to person and its up to them to decide what is moral and immoral for them. We were talking about modernization and according to you wearing bikini, having free open sex with whoever you wish and going to clubs and drinking wine and taking drugs are signs of modernity which i was not agree with it. Modernity is more of a thought process than wearing certain type of dress or having sex the way western does.

Change and freedom is not always positive and freedom always has its restrictions which vary from society to society and culture to culture . You can be modern living within your culture whether its eastern or western culture. You need to be open mind, you need to be compassion towards fellow human beings, you need to respect different cultural/religious practices even if you don't agree with them. you need to respect the choice of fellow people even if you consider it wrong choice, you have to adopt tolerance towards new ideas and positive change or improvement in lifestyle and these are all things that make your thought process as modern

 

[livingdead]

Were we talking about morality? lol I think concept of morality vary person to person and its up to them to decide what is moral and immoral for them. We were talking about modernization and according to you wearing bikini, having free open sex with whoever you wish and going to clubs and drinking wine and taking drugs are signs of modernity which i was not agree with it. Modernity is more of a thought process than wearing certain type of dress or having sex the way western does.

Change and freedom is not always positive and freedom always has its restrictions which vary from society to society and culture to culture . You can be modern living within your culture whether its eastern or western culture. You need to be open mind, you need to be compassion towards fellow human beings, you need to respect different cultural/religious practices even if you don't agree with them. you need to respect the choice of fellow people even if you consider it wrong choice, you have to adopt tolerance towards new ideas and positive chance or improvement and these are all things that make your thought process as modern

do you agree that pakistan is a modern society(using your definition)as the thread title suggests.. if yes kindly give some examples. If no, dont reply...

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

do you agree that pakistan is a modern society as the thread title suggests.. if yes kindly give some examples. If no, dont reply...

What is modern society or modern individual ? I don't think all Pakistani have same beliefs, lifestyle, thought process or living standard to make a sweeping generalization about Pakistani society

 

[SQ8]

do you agree that pakistan is a modern society(using your definition)as the thread title suggests.. if yes kindly give some examples. If no, dont reply...

Pakistan is a society that has elements from every place.As there already exist countless examples of "modern" society in cities like Karachi and Islamabad.. I will tesitfy to an event in society that shall tell you how totally varied and confused the Pakistani society is.
A certain family with a certain young man was told by his mother thusly:

"X, You are not drinking until you go and offer your evening prayers!!!".

"Fine, just make me a Gin and Cola while I am praying".

That dialogue happened.. and continues to happen.. and in some way encapsulates all of Pakistani society in its myraid self.

 

[livingdead]

What is modern society or modern individual ? I don't think all Pakistani have same beliefs, lifestyle, thought process or living standard to make a sweeping generalization about Pakistani society

modern society I was talking about..
indulge in a bit of generalization. if you please... it does not mean all are same, just an overview (or an average indication) of how you think your society is.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

modern society I was talking about..
indulge in a bit of generalization. if you please... it does not mean all are same, just an overview (or an average indication) of how you think your society is.

I asked you to define a modern society .Can you define what are those things or traits that make you modern?

Is Japanese/Malaysian society modern? Is Dubai modern? Is india modern? What about turkey?

 

[livingdead]

I asked you to define a modern society ..can you define what are those things or traits that make you modern?

Is Japanese/Malaysian society modern? Is Dubai modern? Is india modern? what about turkey?

kindly use your own definition which you gave earlier..

 

[Edevelop]

Modern in what sense ? Islamic or Western ?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

kindly use your own definition which you gave earlier..

See Hindu guy society is defined by people who are living in this society and i have no clue about thought process of every Pakistani individual to paint whole society as modern. The problem is modern people of my society don't get your or western attention that's why we are known only for opposite

 

[Armstrong]

Pakistan is a society that has elements from every place.As there already exist countless examples of "modern" society in cities like Karachi and Islamabad.. I will tesitfy to an event in society that shall tell you how totally varied and confused the Pakistani society is.
A certain family with a certain young man was told by his mother thusly:

"X, You are not drinking until you go and offer your evening prayers!!!".

"Fine, just make me a Gin and Cola while I am praying".

That dialogue happened.. and continues to happen.. and in some way encapsulates all of Pakistani society in its myraid self.

Oh Shut Up you just made that up - It can't possibly be true !

 

[livingdead]

Pakistan is a society that has elements from every place.As there already exist countless examples of "modern" society in cities like Karachi and Islamabad.. I will tesitfy to an event in society that shall tell you how totally varied and confused the Pakistani society is.
A certain family with a certain young man was told by his mother thusly:

"X, You are not drinking until you go and offer your evening prayers!!!".

"Fine, just make me a Gin and Cola while I am praying".

That dialogue happened.. and continues to happen.. and in some way encapsulates all of Pakistani society in its myraid self.

this I presume happens in a tiny minority of household.
And by this parameter India is way too backward because most Indians will be mortified to confess that they drink any alcohol at all to their parents...