Indians At It, Again

[Rusty]

What can a Pakistani tell about India that the World does not already know about ? About poverty, lack of sanitation, malnutrition, its caste system or about Kashmir or about Maoists ? India is an open book, well discussed, debated and criticized even in India by people like William Dalrymple, or the mother-lode of India's other side, Arundhati Roy. But, the bottom line is this : India has never indulged in terrorist activities outside its zone nor has been a terrorist haven. Also, India is an established democratic state, though broken and chaotic, yet tries to learn from it and improves upon it. And the world recognizes the merit behind that. So the grouse that the world holds for Pakistan is very much valid, since its Pakistan's shortcomings that not only affects the immediate sphere of influence, but the world over.

All of this and you still don't seem to grasp the point being made.
let me say it one more time, in capital letters so there is no confusion.
IF YOU ARE GOING TO DISCUSS PAKISTAN, HAVE PAKISTANIS ON YOUR SHOW.

to me this seems like common sense, but I guess other people don't share thing kind of logic.
Or maybe they have other agendas and don't want to share this kind of logic.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Article in a nutshell for those too lazy to read: "Sure Pakistan has problems but look! India has - [insert poverty, hinduvita, social issues + West vs Pakistan & China conspiracy theories here]".

 

[Perceptron]

All of this and you still don't seem to grasp the point being made.
let me say it one more time, in capital letters so there is no confusion.
IF YOU ARE GOING TO DISCUSS PAKISTAN, HAVE PAKISTANIS ON YOUR SHOW.

to me this seems like common sense, but I guess other people don't share thing kind of logic.
Or maybe they have other agendas and don't want to share this kind of logic.

I guess then you have never heard of Tarek Fatah, Ahmad Rashid, Asma Jahangir, Tariq Ali, Kamran Shafi just to get started on the International scene. Heck, Christine Fair who used to be so pro-Pakistani turned virulently anti-Pakistani due to Pakistani policies. So is the case with Christina Lamb. So do not complain about International Pakistani presence, when you get the stick from your Pakistani representation themselves.

 

[Rusty]

I guess then you have never heard of Tarek Fatah, Ahmad Rashid, Asma Jahangir, Tariq Ali, Kamran Shafi just to get started on the International scene. Heck, Christine Fair who used to be so pro-Pakistani turned virulently anti-Pakistani due to Pakistani policies. So is the case with Christina Lamb. So do not complain about International Pakistani presence, when you get the stick from your Pakistani representation themselves.

I recognize 3 of those names and 2 of them are atheist dogs who want nothing but to destroy Pakistan, the 3rd is also atheist but at least a smart one.

why is it so hard for you to grasp this concept?
Is your hatred for Pakistan so overpowering that you will go to such extreme lengths to flaunt such simple logic?

When the media is discussing Pakistan, why should they be inviting Indians?
What do Indians know about Pakistan, outside their own hatred for it?

Once again, and I am getting tired of saying this, if you are discussing Pakistan, invite Pakistanis to your shows.
Not Indians.

But of course we all know the real reason for this
The Western media just wants to perpetuate hatred against Pakistan and Indians are more then happy to help spread their hatred.

 

[jayron]

you know the best way to spread malicious propaganda is to be very very subtle so that people believe in the 'neutral' perspective that you are trying to masquerade your true intent as...
ahmed qureshi seems to be more on RAW payroll than of ISI's...

That would be true for sophisticated audience which Pakistanis are not. They are trained to believe in convenient conspiracies than inconvenient truths.

 

[Perceptron]

I recognize 3 of those names and 2 of them are atheist dogs who want nothing but to destroy Pakistan, the 3rd is also atheist but at least a smart one.

why is it so hard for you to grasp this concept?
Is your hatred for Pakistan so overpowering that you will go to such extreme lengths to flaunt such simple logic?

When the media is discussing Pakistan, why should they be inviting Indians?
What do Indians know about Pakistan, outside their own hatred for it?

Once again, and I am getting tired of saying this, if you are discussing Pakistan, invite Pakistanis to your shows.
Not Indians.

But of course we all know the real reason for this
The Western media just wants to perpetuate hatred against Pakistan and Indians are more then happy to help spread their hatred.

Okay, then tell me, which Pakistani expert should be invited for Pakistani viewpoints ? Ahmed Quraishi, Shireen Mazari, Moin Ansari or Zaid Hamid ? Or would you rather have Musharraf doing the rounds ? What or who according to you presents a balanced Pakistani viewpoint ? Heck, let me tell you, Stanley Wolpert, a Pakistano-philic who wrote Jinnah's biography is so critical of the Pakistani nation, that you do not need convincing him on the acheivements of Pakistan or where Pakistan is heading. For that matter, read Stephen Cohen's latest article who is also known as the dean of Pakistani experts. If you see writers of such a diverse nature critical on Pakistan and contradictory to your viewpoint, then perhaps those glasses of yours are green-tinged and needs to come off. Indians ranging from B. Raman to S. Parthasarthy know the guts of the Pakistani state and yet they stay away from the limelight (of the e-Media). The Indian who can be most balanced about Pakistani affairs is MK Bhadrakumar. So if you want to present your rosy Pakistani picture, invite him by all means to your Western talk-shows.

To conclude on a final note, come out of this habit of Denial. The problem that Pakistan faces is very real and very grave. It is high time that it be faced and dealt with.

 

[Rusty]

Okay, then tell me, which Pakistani expert should be invited for Pakistani viewpoints ? Ahmed Quraishi, Shireen Mazari, Moin Ansari or Zaid Hamid ? Or would you rather have Musharraf doing the rounds ? What or who according to you presents a balanced Pakistani viewpoint ? Heck, let me tell you, Stanley Wolpert, a Pakistano-philic who wrote Jinnah's biography is so critical of the Pakistani nation, that you do not need convincing him on the acheivements of Pakistan or where Pakistan is heading. For that matter, read Stephen Cohen's latest article who is also known as the dean of Pakistani experts. If you see writers of such a diverse nature critical on Pakistan and contradictory to your viewpoint, then perhaps those glasses of yours are green-tinged and needs to come off. Indians ranging from B. Raman to S. Parthasarthy know the guts of the Pakistani state and yet they stay away from the limelight (of the e-Media). The Indian who can be most balanced about Pakistani affairs is MK Bhadrakumar. So if you want to present your rosy Pakistani picture, invite him by all means to your Western talk-shows.

To conclude on a final note, come out of this habit of Denial. The problem that Pakistan faces is very real and very grave. It is high time that it be faced and dealt with.

I think you thought you were in a masturbation-athon, but you were only competing with your self.

you are so desperate for me to believe the things that you are saying that I supposedly believe.
why is that?
point to anywhere in any of my posts where I have denied any problems in Pakistan, please do it.
why are you typing half paragraphs to points I didn't make.

The only point I made was for news outlets to have a fair represention of Pakistan when they are discussing Pakistan.
Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Instead you bring out writers who critisized Pakistan and say I present a rosy picture.
Which I find really odd since I didn't present any picture of Pakistan.
Maybe it's because English is not your first language.

As for your "final note"
we will deal with it, you don't have to stay up all night worrying about us.
But I really do recommend you maybe look into why you are unable to read what people say, and instead set up straw-men, which you vigorously attack.

or don't........ it's your life, who am I to tell you what you do

 

[Kaniska]

All of this and you still don't seem to grasp the point being made.
let me say it one more time, in capital letters so there is no confusion.
IF YOU ARE GOING TO DISCUSS PAKISTAN, HAVE PAKISTANIS ON YOUR SHOW.

to me this seems like common sense, but I guess other people don't share thing kind of logic.
Or maybe they have other agendas and don't want to share this kind of logic.

Dude i got your point....And it makes sense too...How come an outsider can talk about a country..And when the outsider is of Indian origin then your point is really makes sense..

Here is my observation about why it is happening:

1- American public/ target audience feels that none of the journalist from your country can present a proper picture, the way the news paper views the entire episode.
2- Pk india rivallary is really entertaining to the reader of the article...So when something negative is published by indian journalist against pk, the prospective reader of the article is really looking towards reading that sort of story.

 

[Perceptron]

The only point I made was for news outlets to have a fair represention of Pakistan when they are discussing Pakistan.
Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
...
Maybe it's because English is not your first language.
...
But I really do recommend you maybe look into why you are unable to read what people say, and instead set up straw-men, which you vigorously attack.

Let me address each of your points one by one.
1. You plead for news outlets reporting on Pakistan to have a fair representation of Pakistan. Why do you think the representation is absent ? Either it means that you are unaware of it while they do get Pakistanis' views on the same, but unfortunately for Pakistan, they are on the wrong side of your books (atheist dogs as you claim them to be ). Or it means they do it because Pakistan has no genuine representation to paint a realistic picture in which case its the onus of Pakistan to find a better representation for them in the Media. The solution is in your own hands. Or it means that they willfully do it and have a bias against Pakistan. Which means that every single Media outlet ranging from BBC to WSJ to CNN has an axe to grind against Pakistan. And you want readers of this forum to believe this viewpoint. This, as i mentioned earlier, comes under the "denial" territory.

2. I can speak, understand and assimilate the language, thank you very much.

3. I have indeed addressed your concern is the first point. Have a look and let me know.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So that mitigates it does it. We got some idiots in Pakistan that excuses Indians from taking pot shots.

It does not mitigate it, but I do think that the groveling attitude taken by so many Pakistani liberals towards the West, and their constant engagement in self loathing and self flagellation, and their support/justification for even that which is corrupt, inept and inexcusable, solely because the Army happens to be perceived as opposing the side that is 'corrupt and inept', is not helping advance Pakistan's narrative.

Sorry to say, our conservatives take more consistent positions, even when bashing the Army. Take Imran Khan or Hamid Mir for example - they condemn the military/security forces for military operations and collateral damage in BOTH FATA and Balochistan. Our liberals on the other hand are wailing and screaming about 'Military extra-judicial killings and disappearances' in Balochistan, while applauding and cheering even more extra-judicial killings and massacres at the hands of the US in drone strikes and military operations in FATA!

With this kind of intellectual dishonesty being displayed by our intelligentsia, many of whom are courted by the West for their opinions and analyses, people like Dhume end up going completely unchallenged.

 

[lem34]

It does not mitigate it, but I do think that the groveling attitude taken by so many Pakistani liberals towards the West, and their constant engagement in self loathing and self flagellation, and their support/justification for even that which is corrupt, inept and inexcusable, solely because the Army happens to be perceived as opposing the side that is 'corrupt and inept', is not helping advance Pakistan's narrative.

Sorry to say, our conservatives take more consistent positions, even when bashing the Army. Take Imran Khan or Hamid Mir for example - they condemn the military/security forces for military operations and collateral damage in BOTH FATA and Balochistan. Our liberals on the other hand are wailing and screaming about 'Military extra-judicial killings and disappearances' in Balochistan, while applauding and cheering even more extra-judicial killings and massacres at the hands of the US in drone strikes and military operations in FATA!

With this kind of intellectual dishonesty being displayed by our intelligentsia, many of whom are courted by the West for their opinions and analyses, people like Dhume end up going completely unchallenged.

I agree with you in everything you say. Perhaps Pakistan should take a leaf from American book and consider taking away citizenship from these traitors.

 

[fd24]

Mate i know what the hateful Indians think - i get the jist of their thoughts. I got other issues to think of first. Sadly when we appoint a set of losers to represent us and these politicians sell us down the river its more annoying.
When your chicken goes and lays an egg in the neighbors house then why beat the neighbor up? Control your own chicken.

 

[lem34]

Control your own chicken.

Kick the chicken I say.

 

[cyphercide]

What an idiot.The piece kicks off with the rant ''How dare Indians comment on Pakistan as they know nothing about us?" and then the author goes on to talk about India(!!!)as we all are well aware that only Pakistanis have a free pass on that and not Indians.One would hope that the writer took a breather to proofread the article, perhaps then his hypocrisy would have stared smack back at him.

It's an interesting viewpoint though as the very opposite mostly holds true.Pakistan loves to enter the scene wherever India is mentioned.We see it in various spheres of influence such as;

The United States inks a civilian nuclear deal with India,Pakistan wants the same

Australia agrees to selling Uranium to India.Ji janab,Pakistan ko bhi chahiye

The United States suggests India to ''Act East''.First ones out with a response....if you guessed Pakistan,you guessed right!!!

India offers to train Afghan troops...no wait a second...suddenly Pakistan wants in on it too

India is a great buffer state.Nations pestering Pakistan to sign the NPT? Simple solution;ward them off with a statement deflecting the blame such as ''We will sign it when India signs it''

A live specimen of this curious phenomenon would be Musharraf.He finds a way to bring India into everything regardless of where he is or who he is talking to.

Reckon it's limited to foreign policy?Think again and think hard,Oblivious to it all the writer has the apparent gall of telling India not to talk about Pakistan.Two words; biyatch please.

 

[KS]

mate you seem to be quiet hateful towards us your self.

just cuz one guys posts it does not mean the whole country feels the same.

No apologies needed.

Propaganda is everything these days and Pakistan is not exactly a friendly country either.