What's new

Indian troops foil China’s incursion attempt in Ladakh, minor injuries on both sides after stone-pe

I noticed that india news is slight different from the origin souce from China gov.

Asked to comment on the incident,Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hu Chunying said, "I am not aware of the information." She said the People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops always patrol along the Chinese side of the Line of Actual Control (LAC). "The Chinese side is committed to peace and tranquillity of the China-India border," she said.

Chinese spokesperson mentioned that the LAC in 1959, not current LAC, it's the first time China mentioned that India should obey 1959's LAC.
 
.
Of course, they were dinosaurs in the sense that PAF had already entered air-air missile era as Pakistani jets including its Canadair Sabres had been integrated with AIM 9L Sidewinders as well as with radar guided HUDs, where as IAF jets were still equipped with guns and no HUDs!!Besides, both Mysteres and Vampires were designed primarily for tactical interdiction missions and as a result, they were practically no match for PAF fighters as they were significantly inferior in terms of both speed and manoeuvrability since they were never designed for aerial combat as their primary intended goal!!

PS - By 1965, the Mysteres had already been retired by almost all of its users except IAF and Canadian Air Force had replaced its Vampires with the same Sabre MkVI which formed the backbone of PAF at that time; and this should give you the picture.
Sabres were very good fighter i agree but after reading most of interviews of PAF pilots most of the times they used guns in dog fights and dropped bombs on the ground.AIM 9Ls were rarely used.Yes advanced radar could be a advantage.
Hawker hunter is no way inferior to sabers. only few squadrons of sabers were equipped with lame 1st generation AIM-9 which had less then 30% kill ratio. other then that the hunter out performs saber in almost every aspect. look the arabs used hunters against superior IDAF and PAF pilots did manage to shoot down couple of IDAF planes. most of the planes provided by friends of pakistan were more like force projection and saw very limited action... thats according to very reliable source non other then sir Muradk.
other then hunters... IAF also had superior ground attack AC like Su-7, cannabera, and hunters and air superiority fighters like Mig-21, Gnat, and hunters.
Its the man behind the machine which also matters not just the tech.Oh but you did accept your pilots were poorly trained .
 
.
Sabres were very good fighter i agree but after reading most of interviews of PAF pilots most of the times they used guns in dog fights and dropped bombs on the ground.AIM 9Ls were rarely used.
Of course, I am not disputing that but it had a devastating effect on the minds and moral of IAF pilots, for one, they didn't have much intel on those missiles and saw it as some sort of wonder weapon.And besides, one more aspect you need to keep in mind, that at that time, PAF pilots had gained far better training in modern day air combat tactics by the USAF and other NATO allies, who had shared their experiences and lessons they had learned during the Korean war, where as, IAF tactics at time, had been developed in complete isolation due to India's nonalignment principal and the IAF had no means of obtaining such training.No wonder PAF performed better and their disadvantage was pretty well-known to IAF even before the war had started.

Yes advanced radar could be a advantage.
Not could be, it was and a pretty damn significant one at that!!The PAF jets could easily lock onto their adversaries as their radar equipped HUDs would calculate the lead and elevation of their targets, which made aiming their guns much easier where as, IAF jets were still equipped with WWII ear gun sights, where the pilots had to calculate everything in their mind while having to concentrate on flying and maneuvering their jets and leading your targets was largely based on educated guess work and hunches.
A similar thing happened in tank warfare as well where Pakistani tanks like Pattons and M4A4 Shermans had been equipped with then very modern coincident rangefinders with associated analog ballistic computers, which made acquiring their targets much easier where as Indian tanks like older A1 Shermans and Centurions were still equipped with WWII ear stadiametric sights and no aim assist and proper ranging equipment other than ranging machine guns - again pure guess work.

Hawker hunter is no way inferior to sabers.
May be not in the vertical plane but in terms of horizontal maneuverabilities, Sabres were still the better ones.And we need to keep in mind two key aspects here -
One, IAF had held back its better jets like Hunters and Gnats in its initial days (in fear of a potential threat of PRC intervening on your favor, 1962 yada yada) and only used the older Vampires and Mysteres and paid dearly for that mistake.And when they did put the Hunters to use during the latter part of the war, they were almost exclusively used as fighter-bombers and suffered in the hands of PAF air defense sorties.

only few squadrons of sabers were equipped with lame 1st generation AIM-9 which had less then 30% kill ratio.
True but they didn't know that at that time!!And even if they had known, still the pilots would have no way of knowing if their particular opponents were armed with the Sidewinders or not!!
other then that the hunter out performs saber in almost every aspect. look the arabs used hunters against superior IDAF and PAF pilots did manage to shoot down couple of IDAF planes. most of the planes provided by friends of pakistan were more like force projection and saw very limited action... thats according to very reliable source non other then sir Muradk.
Poor tactics.The previous years under Nehru had really left the Indain Armed forces in complete shambles and it showed during this war.

other then hunters... IAF also had superior ground attack AC like Su-7, cannabera, and hunters and air superiority fighters like Mig-21, Gnat, and hunters.
Gnats weren't particularly superior to Sabres even by PAF's admissions, it was just that they were so small that many of times, PAF ground based radar stations could not pick them up in time which in turn, made it possible for them to sneak up on your Sabres, besides, the PAF pilots also found them difficult to detect visually due to their small size.

Oh and by the way, at that time, the number of Mig 21s (8 or 10 of those, can't remeber now) in IAF inventory wasn't enough to form even a single squadron and none of them took part in any of the confrontations.
Its the man behind the machine which also matters not just the tech.
True, in fact, it used to be even truer back in those days.But you can not deny the fact that possession of better technology (along with some other factors) had also made a tremendous contribution to PAF's success in the 1965 conflict along with the skill of their pilots.One key aspect none of us mentioned before is that the top notch ground based radar coverage enjoyed by the PAF!!Their long range radars would pick up IAF sorties merely after they would take off from their forward air fields, which in turn enabled them to plan their ambushes!!Nothing remotely of such sort was available to IAF at that time as they had to rely on forward observers for early warning, which in turn led to the destruction of a good number of IAF jets on the ground on multiple occasions!!That was the level of disparity in terms of equipment which prevailed during that time.

PS - In no way, I'm trying to put down PAF's achievements, rest assured.They did extremely well, given the relative disparity in numbers (even though not nearly as great as the 5:1 ratio which is often quoted as more than half of the IAF was held back in fear of a possible PLAAF intervention for the wound of '62 was still too fresh)

Oh but you did accept your pilots were poorly trained .
No shame in accepting the truth is there now??Heck, even our infantry, armor, artillery - everything was comparatively poorly armed and trained at that time!!The IAF accepted its shortcomings as well and pulled their socks up and the result is now for all to see.The thing is, you can't be in denial of your shortcomings, you can not just close your eyes and deny the truth just cause it ain't pleasant!!I mean you can try to deny the truth as much as you want to but at the end, the truth will always find you even if you do not want to find it yourself.Adios. :)
 
Last edited:
.
Of course, I am not disputing that but it had a devastating effect on the minds and moral of IAF pilots, for one, they didn't have much intel on those missiles and saw it as some sort of wonder weapon.And besides, one more aspect you need to keep in mind, that at that time, PAF pilots had gained far better training in modern day air combat tactics by the USAF and other NATO allies, who had shared their experiences and lessons they had learned during the Korean war, where as, IAF tactics at time, had been developed in complete isolation due to India's nonalignment principal and the IAF had no means of obtaining such training.No wonder PAF performed better and their disadvantage was pretty well-known to IAF even before the war had started.


Not could be, it was and a pretty damn significant one at that!!The PAF jets could easily lock onto their adversaries as their radar equipped HUDs would calculate the lead and elevation of their targets, which made aiming their guns much easier where as, IAF jets were still equipped with WWII ear gun sights, where the pilots had to calculate everything in their mind while having to concentrate on flying and maneuvering their jets and leading your targets was largely based on educated guess work and hunches.
A similar thing happened in tank warfare as well where Pakistani tanks like Pattons and M4A4 Shermans had been equipped with then very modern coincident rangefinders with associated analog ballistic computers, which made acquiring their targets much easier where as Indian tanks like older A1 Shermans and Centurions were still equipped with WWII ear stadiametric sights and no aim assist and proper ranging equipment other than ranging machine guns - again pure guess work.


May be not in the vertical plane but in terms of horizontal maneuverabilities, Sabres were still the better ones.And we need to keep in mind two key aspects here -
One, IAF had held back its better jets like Hunters and Gnats in its initial days (in fear of a potential threat of PRC intervening on your favor, 1962 yada yada) and only used the older Vampires and Mysteres and paid dearly for that mistake.And when they did put the Hunters to use during the latter part of the war, they were almost exclusively used as fighter-bombers and suffered in the hands of PAF air defense sorties.


True but they didn't know that at that time!!And even if they had known, still the pilots would have no way of knowing if their particular opponents were armed with the Sidewinders or not!!

Poor tactics.The previous years under Nehru had really left the Indain Armed forces in complete shambles and it showed during this war.


Gnats weren't particularly superior to Sabres even by PAF's admissions, it was just that they were so small that many of times, PAF ground based radar stations could not pick them up in time which in turn, made it possible for them to sneak up on your Sabres, besides, the PAF pilots also found them difficult to detect visually due to their small size.

Oh and by the way, at that time, the number of Mig 21s (8 or 10 of those, can't remeber now) in IAF inventory wasn't enough to form even a single squadron and none of them took part in any of the confrontations.

True, in fact, it used to be even truer back in those days.But you can not deny the fact that possession of better technology (along with some other factors) had also made a tremendous contribution to PAF's success in the 1965 conflict along with the skill of their pilots.One key aspect none of us mentioned before is that the top notch ground based radar coverage enjoyed by the PAF!!Their long range radars would pick up IAF sorties merely after they would take off from their forward air fields, which in turn enabled them to plan their ambushes!!Nothing remotely of such sort was available to IAF at that time as they had to rely on forward observers for early warning, which in turn led to the destruction of a good number of IAF jets on the ground on multiple occasions!!That was the level of disparity in terms of equipment which prevailed during that time.

PS - In no way, I'm trying to put down PAF's achievements, rest assured.They did extremely well, given the relative disparity in numbers (even though not nearly as great as the 5:1 ratio which is often quoted as more than half of the IAF was held back in fear of a possible PLAAF intervention for the wound of '62 was still too fresh)


No shame in accepting the truth is there now??Heck, even our infantry, armor, artillery - everything was comparatively poorly armed and trained at that time!!The IAF accepted its shortcomings as well and pulled their socks up and the result is now for all to see.The thing is, you can't be in denial of your shortcomings, you can not just close your eyes and deny the truth just cause it ain't pleasant!!I mean you can try to deny the truth as much as you want to but at the end, the truth will always find you even if you do not want to find it yourself.Adios. :)
Well now in 2017 i believe IAF is tech wise superior to PAF but training wise both are equal.IAF has a slight edge over PAF these days.
 
.
Let me first send you back to your fecal hole.

Cleaning out these call center insecure bhakt types is always a breath of fresh air.
Thankfully, controls now in place to see that they NEVER return

What part of my post you found offensive ? To block mr for 14 days.

Did me saying that Chinese after all huff and puff...All they did was stone pelting ....And went back to their hole caused the disappointment or truth hurt very badly.

But I stated the truth OSCAR. I want u to analyze your action and think why u have become a nation who wants to protect chinese more than you would do yourself.

Truth may be bitter....U may block me again....But it would not change the truth a bit.

Truth is....China will never come to your help at their cost. They will like u to gi to war with India and get destroyed in the process and destroy India. Period.

They give shit to your culture and your faith.
 
. . .
http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/t1488261.shtml

Q: Could you tell us that how many Chinese soldiers are still deployed at the Dong Lang area?


A: This is a very specific question. What I can tell you is that The Chinese border troops continue with their patrols and stationing in the Dong Lang area. China will adjust and deploy its military resources in accordance with the need of guarding the border and the situation on the ground.

:china:
 
.
What part of my post you found offensive ? To block mr for 14 days.

Did me saying that Chinese after all huff and puff...All they did was stone pelting ....And went back to their hole caused the disappointment or truth hurt very badly.

But I stated the truth OSCAR. I want u to analyze your action and think why u have become a nation who wants to protect chinese more than you would do yourself.

Truth may be bitter....U may block me again....But it would not change the truth a bit.

Truth is....China will never come to your help at their cost. They will like u to gi to war with India and get destroyed in the process and destroy India. Period.

They give shit to your culture and your faith.
Why so much hate? Our goal is to help Pakistan setup deterrence against India's aggression.
 
.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom