Indian research scholar at Oxford: Pakistan Army not involved in Bangladesh

[Desert Fox]

What? We are not international police. Until it involves India, why should we indulge in anything? That too after humiliating pakistan army like that?

Speaking of humiliation:


Chinese soldiers camp inside India border: Indian sources – The Express Tribune

 

[Secur]

What's the documented proof of killing of millions of bengalis or rapings even?

Where's even the documented proof for almost ten million refugees migrating to West Bengal ? In what camps were they held and under what conditions ?

 

[Secur]

What? We are not international police. Until it involves India, why should we indulge in anything? That too after humiliating pakistan army like that?

You went there like International police fully backed by USSR for so called ' liberation ' of Bengalis . Then do not take the moral high ground if you didn't prosecute the alleged ' killers and rapists ' of Pakistan Army when they were in your custody for almost a year , if there was a shred of evidence , they could have been tried by War tribunals formed by India and Bangladesh like the allies did after WWII . But they weren't and that tells us a completely different story about 3 million killed , 6 million and 250,000 war babies who have today vanished in thin air .

 

[Dillinger]

You went there like International police fully backed by USSR for so called ' liberation ' of Bangladeshis . Then do not take the moral high ground if you didn't prosecute the alleged ' killers and rapists ' of Pakistan Army when they were in your custody for almost a year , if there was a shred of evidence , they could have been tried by War tribunals formed by India and Bangladesh like the allies did after WWII . But they weren't and that tells us a completely different story about 3 million killed , 6 million and 250,000 war babies who have today vanished in thin air .

Might want to ask @BDforever. He claims to know where the mass graves are.

Probably there was quite a bit of exaggeration. We needed to beef up our pretext for entering BD to do what we had planned. Although the refugee thing isn't a hoax..we got saddled with a damn huge load of them in 71. It was not pretty.

 

[Secur]

Might want to ask @BDforever. He claims to know where the mass graves are.

Probably there was quite a bit of exaggeration. We needed to beef up our pretext for entering BD to do what we had planned. Although the refugee thing isn't a hoax..we got saddled with a damn huge load of them in 71. It was not pretty.

I may also want to know where these ' alleged concentration camps ' were .

Then accept yourself as aggressors in '71 war training insurgents , fueling rebellion and using propaganda to manipulate the general populace in an Internationally recognized sovereign state and stop taking the moral high ground as ' saviors of Bengalis ' . This is as simple , as that . The war didn't start on 3 Dec 1971 when Pakistan attacked Indian bases in Operation Chengiz Khan , it had stated well before then with the Indians accumulating troops on the border and waiting for the right time to wage war , training and providing support to militants in the meantime . General Manekshaw admits that 60,000 insurgents crossed directly from India and failed , in his writings . The numbers are exaggerated to the extent that they seem like a complete hoax where 50,000 soldiers who were busy fighting a war with India on the border and civil war inside the country killed some 3 million , raped 6 million Bengali women and produced 250,000 war babies - a lie the Bengalis even today stick to , in their official accounts . By no chance , the number of those refugees could be anywhere close to ten million , there's no documented proof , none at all .

 

[Thirdfront]

Some of these Indians are just doing mental masturbation by talking about factitious rapes.

Almost like guys who get the pleasure by talking about their sisters getting rapes.

No matter how hard you try to move them away from this dastardly topic, they keep going back just like flies go back to the pile of $hit.

Such is the state of this modern day Indian intellectualism where good Indians like
@joe S and
@Peshwa are pushed aside by these 2-bit Hindutva masturbators.

Sadly.



And how long was that language as Official?

And when was Bangla given the same official status.

Would you learn a bit or continue having mental orgasms?


3rd grade history book readers posing as $hit shovlers.

What a combo.

yeah right.

LMAOROTF... Well, 8 full years, how many dead?? And why UNESCO declared International Mother Language Day?? Can't face up to the facts that your mistakes lead to PA's rare portion being whooped??? wow, you guys must have a brilliant brainwashing mechanism out there.....

 

[Thirdfront]

You went there like International police fully backed by USSR for so called ' liberation ' of Bengalis . Then do not take the moral high ground if you didn't prosecute the alleged ' killers and rapists ' of Pakistan Army when they were in your custody for almost a year , if there was a shred of evidence , they could have been tried by War tribunals formed by India and Bangladesh like the allies did after WWII . But they weren't and that tells us a completely different story about 3 million killed , 6 million and 250,000 war babies who have today vanished in thin air .

Again what??? We did not go into war to stop genocide being committed by PA. We went to war because WP attacked us. Earlier to that, we supported MB in all aspects so that refugees can return. Had we not faced with refugee problem, we wouldn't have done anything... If killing was our intent, we could have executed some important people without evidence too, who were going to stop us? Again, criminals not being prosecuted doesn't mean that crime has not taken place...

Speaking of humiliation:


Chinese soldiers camp inside India border: Indian sources – The Express Tribune

Ha ha ha... first, stay on topic. Second look at the dead donkey on your plate before pointing to a dead mosquito on somebody else's plate... last time I heard talibs were camping all over pak...

 

[toxic_pus]

then why so many nincompoops with Indian flags have made it their fing business to show up like flies over $hit whenever the topic of 1971 BDeshi crimes comes under discussion.

Why?

To watch you guys get your underpants in a twist. Its hilarious.

Seriously though, it was India’s business, as was humanity’s, to step in and intervene during ‘71. Otherwise your orgy of genocide wouldn’t have stopped. And we, as neighbours, were bearing the brunt of your blood sport. Irony is that Indira Gandhi was nowhere near interested in intervention during the initial stages of the crisis.

But where you got your underpants in a twist is that, India couldn’t have prosecuted the PoWs, simply because Indian laws didn’t apply to those war criminals – international law did – and Indian courts didn’t have jurisdiction over them.

If it was not . It was not India's DAMNED business then why to send 60,000 insurgents into an internationally recognized country's internationally recognized borders?.

Those ’60,000 insurgents’ were actually your men fighting for their life and dignity.

As an arsonist, first start a fire, then claim to be a firefighter.

Of course. It was after all the Indians who got your President to abrogate the constitutional rights of the East Pakistanis, and when they demanded those rights, have them massacred. And then, through black magic, have him convinced that ethnic and religious cleansing was the only way to solve the minor inconvenience, called the Bengalis.

There was no refugee problem in March 1971.

Refugee problem became so in July Agust.

By mid of May, little over a month since the beginning of that orgy, the refugee numbers had crossed 2,000,000 and was increasing at the rate of about 50,000+ per day. That was more than what a fragile economy of India could take.

Indian insurgents killing and raping in E. Pakistan so the Bengalis run from their houses.

Wait. So Indian ‘insurgents’ killed and raped the Bengalis and the Bengalis ran into the arms of the same Indians for safety?

A quick question. How old are you?

Such is the state of this modern day Indian intellectualism where good Indians like
@joe S and
@Peshwa are pushed aside by these 2-bit Hindutva masturbators.

Sadly.

You wouldn't want Joe Shearer here. Trust me on this.

And how long was that language as Official?

And when was Bangla given the same official status.

Would you learn a bit or continue having mental orgasms?


3rd grade history book readers posing as $hit shovlers.

What a combo.

yeah right.

Pop quiz: Which date is considered as International (Mother) Language Day and why?

Peace.

 

[Dillinger]

I may also want to know where these ' alleged concentration camps ' were .

Then accept yourself as aggressors in '71 war training insurgents , fueling rebellion and using propaganda to manipulate the general populace in an Internationally recognized sovereign state and stop taking the moral high ground as ' saviors of Bengalis ' . This is as simple , as that . The war didn't start on 3 Dec 1971 when Pakistan attacked Indian bases in Operation Chengiz Khan , it had stated well before then with the Indians accumulating troops on the border and waiting for the right time to wage war , training and providing support to militants in the meantime . General Manekshaw admits that 60,000 insurgents crossed directly from India and failed , in his writings . The numbers are exaggerated to the extent that they seem like a complete hoax where 45,000 soldiers who were busy fighting a war with India on the border and civil war inside the country killed some 3 million , raped 6 million Bengali women and produced 250,000 war babies - a lie the Bengalis even today stick to in their official accounts . By no chance , the number of those refugees could be anywhere close to ten million , there's no documented proof , none at all .

Hey! We didn't engineer the animosity between you guys and the Bengalis. That you can lay at ZAB and Yahya's feet. Mujib had won the elections fair and square. Given a chance to administer both East and West Pakistan he would have never taken part in any attempt to separate the two. The higher ground is our narrative, we all need narratives. AND India has always been very good at putting its narrative forth and getting it accepted at large, that's part of warfare yaara. Did you expect us to say that we were moving towards securing our interests?

It is indeed true that as the unrest in Bangladesh started we spent a few months preparing for any possible hostilities but even then it was not exactly clear as to whether we would enter the fray or not. The Chinese had all but promised Pakistan that they would directly intervene on their behalf and he Soviets would be busy holding back the Yanks. Its only when we were able to station the bulk of our mountain divisions in the NE and secure the area that we decided that operations into BD by the IA itself were plausible. Other than that it was war yaara..we did what we had to and were good enough to convince everyone that we were right in doing so.

 

[Secur]

Again what??? We did not go into war to stop genocide being committed by PA.

We went to war because WP attacked us.

No moral high ground then as claimed by almost all Indian members here then .

The war didn't begin on 3 Dec , 1971 when Pakistan attacked Indian bases , it has begun a lot earlier than that when you started training insurgents , fueling rebellion and using propaganda to manipulate the general populace in an Internationally recognized sovereign state and accumulated troops on the border waiting for the right time to strike , General Manekshaw accepts it and it is supported by other Indian commanders / members of top brass too . It made no difference if Pakistan attacked you or not , the war was coming from India sooner or later . We were never the aggressor , as widely claimed .

 

[Secur]

Hey! We didn't engineer the animosity between you guys and the Bengalis. That you can lay at ZAB and Yahya's feet. Mujib had won the elections fair and square. Given a chance to administer both East and West Pakistan he would have never taken part in any attempt to separate the two. The higher ground is our narrative, we all need narratives. AND India has always been very good at putting its narrative forth and getting it accepted at large, that's part of warfare yaara. Did you expect us to say that we were moving towards securing our interests?

It is indeed true that as the unrest in Bangladesh started we spent a few months preparing for any possible hostilities but even then it was not exactly clear as to whether we would enter the fray or not. The Chinese had all but promised Pakistan that they would directly intervene on their behalf and he Soviets would be busy holding back the Yanks. Its only when we were able to station the bulk of our mountain divisions in the NE and secure the area that we decided that operations into BD by the IA itself were plausible. Other than that it was war yaara..we did what we had to and were good enough to convince everyone that we were right in doing so.

Let me make it clear that I accept the mistakes committed by both the civil and military leadership of Pakistan since '47 in that part of the country . There are no doubts about that . What Mr.Bhutto did was nothing short of dictatorship but Mujeeb had expressed his desire for ' independence ' long before the elections were even planned . The Agartala conspiracy case wasn't false . I personally even believe that given the geographic distance and difference of culture and everything , East Pakistan could have formed something of a federation . The question is of the moral high ground which most Indian want to take as ' savior of the Bengalis ' , which is what I wanted to clear . No , I do not expect you to say anything like that in the International arena or as a official policy statements , but seeing that this forum is neither and yet Indians pretend as if they had genuine love for the Bengalis and didn't start a war for their interests .

My dear , as soon as you started training the militants from across the border , the war was coming , the Indian troops were regularly engaging the Pakistanis on the Eastern border even before the mobilization of troops at the border . Possible hostilities , you got to be kidding me , Dillinger , the Field Marshal admits that the eventual plan sooner or later was to wage war officially to meet the objectives , nothing was unclear . I agree it was war and we expect nothing better from the enemy , after all why call it enemy if it doesn't work against you ?

 

[Dillinger]

Let me make it clear that I accept the mistake committed by both the civil and military leadership of Pakistan . What Mr.Bhutto did was nothing short of dictatorship but Mujeeb had expressed his desire for ' independence ' long before the elections were even planned . The Agartala conspiracy case wasn't false . I personally even believe that given the geographic distance and difference of culture and everything , East Pakistan could have formed something of a federation . The question is of the moral high ground which most Indian want to take as ' savior of the Bengalis ' , which is what I wanted to clear . No , I do not expect you to say anything like that in the International arena or as a official policy statements , but seeing that this forum is neither and yet Indians pretend as if they had genuine love for the Bengalis and didn't start a war for their interests .

My dear , as soon as you started training the militants from across the border , the war was coming , the Indian troops were regularly engaging the Pakistanis on the Eastern border even before the mobilization of troops at the border . Possible hostilities , you got to be kidding me , Dillinger , the Field Marshal admits that the eventual plan sooner or later was to wage war officially to meet the objectives , nothing was unclear . I agree it was war and we expect nothing better from the enemy , after all why call it enemy if it doesn't work against you ?

Yaara Manekshaw was talking about one out of the various scenarios he had been told to prepare for. Trust us when we say that Honb. P.M. Indira Gandhi had zilch interest in actual intervention till much later. The MB were just suppose to harass the PA and aid in building up a local movement towards independence. It was only when we found ourselves capable of securing the NE that we decided to take up the idea of intervening directly.

Other than that..hey we love our Bengali brothers...as long as they don't try to waltz in into our lands.

But seriously you guys should have lynched ZAB and Niazi immediately. And what was up with the whole.."defence of East Pakistan lay in West Pakistan"? Did Yahya seriously believe that we'd let ourselves be pulled into some glorious fist fight if he pricked us in the west...haven't you ever wondered why we left a skeleton presence on the western front even when hostilities officially commenced?

 

[OrionHunter]

Ah! So, shahzadasweet has opened a thread that'll go on for another hundred pages of crap flying from all three sides. The arguments are so laughable and amusing that I'm just sitting back, chuckling whilst popping some popcorn, and watching the sh!t flying around.

We're all fighting like a pack of Macaques . This pointless debate can go on till the cows come home. What the heck does it matter now in the year of our Lord 2013?

BD wants Pakistan to apologize for the so called atrocities committed on the Bengalis. Pakistan refuses to do so. Let's leave it at that and move on instead of wasting more PDF server space.

 

[BDforever]

Might want to ask @BDforever. He claims to know where the mass graves are.

Probably there was quite a bit of exaggeration. We needed to beef up our pretext for entering BD to do what we had planned. Although the refugee thing isn't a hoax..we got saddled with a damn huge load of them in 71. It was not pretty.

Mass grave of 1971 unearthed in Meherpur | Bangladesh | bdnews24.com
Panoramio - Photo of Independence War (1971) Mass grave at Lalmonirhat
Mass graves lying uncared for in Kishoreganj
Bangladesh: Mass grave found in Netrakona
Independence Day Special @Secur here, all info not available in internet , i will take you all mass graves (which is hardly possible because it will take more than a month to visit all graves)

and many mores ...

 

[Thirdfront]

No moral high ground then as claimed by almost all Indian members here then .

The war didn't begin on 3 Dec , 1971 when Pakistan attacked Indian bases , it has begun a lot earlier than that when you started training insurgents , fueling rebellion and using propaganda to manipulate the general populace in an Internationally recognized sovereign state and accumulated troops on the border waiting for the right time to strike , General Manekshaw accepts it and it is supported by other Indian commanders / members of top brass too . It made no difference if Pakistan attacked you or not , the war was coming from India sooner or later . We were never the aggressor , as widely claimed .

War begins when it is declared. Everything else is skirmish, proxy war (one that pakistan is doing now), war preperation etc etc, but not war. So, indo-pak war of 1971 sarted on dec 3, when PAF attacked Indian forward airfields. Everything earlier were border skirmishes, insurgency etc etc. About moral highground, considering what WP army did, there would be very few regimes in history who will not have moral highground against WP and India is not one among them.