Indian Railways vs Chinese Railways: stop deluding yourselves...

[rott]

Why are you guys talking bad about India? We Chinese are a developing country while India is not. Shame on us.

 

[Bilal9]

any new railroads in North America is mass transit in cities.
the freight trains and Amtrak is legacy of the 19th century

Ha ha ha . I'm sorry - your comment is... well, it's better not to say when I don't have anything nice to say.....

Please educate yourself. You are commenting in a forum full of people who actually live in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transportation_in_the_United_States#Freight_railroads

They even move airplane assemblies by rail.

 

[wiseone2]

Ha ha ha . I'm sorry - your comment is... well, it's better not to say when I don't have anything nice to say.....

Please educate yourself. You are commenting in a forum full of people who actually live in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transportation_in_the_United_States#Freight_railroads

Most of the freight railway lines were built a long time ago

 

[Bilal9]

Most of the freight railway lines were built a long time ago

All freight lines in current use are kept up and maintained. There is no such thing as 'old' lines, although the lines were built to a high standard. The Railways are private, regional and run very efficiently, freight carriage rates are many times cheaper than trucking.

Again - please educate yourself...... I have no idea why I'm defending US standards to you.....and it stops right here....please don't try to compare US rail standards to developing countries.

The US leads the world in freight-rail efficiencies - end of story....

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

@anant_s sir do wanna participate in a troll thread on Indian railway?

 

[endyashainin]

All freight lines in current use are kept up and maintained. There is no such thing as 'old' lines, although the lines were built to a high standard. The Railways are private, regional and run very efficiently, freight carriage rates are many times cheaper than trucking.

Again - please educate yourself...... I have no idea why I'm defending US standards to you.....and it stops right here....please don't try to compare US rail standards to developing countries.

The US leads the world in freight-rail efficiencies - end of story....

Do waste your time debating him. Just about every Indian I've come across is an expert in everything.

 

[Bilal9]

Do waste your time debating him. Just about every Indian I've come across is an expert in everything.

Well there are too many fourteen year olds here - some haven't even started shaving and they get real macho and confident, on top of profane....

Macho bravado is really on-tap when you have no clue about the real world, have no skills yet to earn one red cent and eating mataji/ammijee ka home-made ready-made grub.

But there are some Railway experts too - like @anant_s sahab.

 

[anant_s]

I'm not sure if i'm qualified to make comments here but few observations:

1. Growth in any sector depends on how a nation views it and then nurtures it. An observation that China started many years ahead of India is indeed correct as far as railways is concerned. China started investing very heavily in railway sector right from 70s and what we see is an impressive picture of China being a world leader in not only HST but also freight carrying capability on rails. This capability however is not achieved overnight. Leadership of China focused on sector and today the sector has become a true strength of Chinese economy.
2. In India like a lot of other sectors (like Power, telecom, Banking), we started to make transition from 1992 onwards after economic liberalization was taken up as a national policy. This meant rapid growth in nation's GDP and this started to put a demand on infra-structure, railways included to upgrade so as to keep in pace with industry growth. Our freight and passenger movement has since multiplied several folds since then, which translates to revenue growth for IR.
3. In almost all of 90s, Indian railways didnot have requisite funds for revamping its old network, let alone takeup new projects. Once finances improved, things slowly improved and this can be clearly seen in increase in average speed of trains, average loading per train rake and passenger movement increase.
4. The additional revenue has allowed railways to modernize by means of introducing faster rail vehicle (WAP 5/7 locomotives, LHB rakes, WDP 4 series locos etc), heavier freight movement (by introduction of stronger locos like WAG 9, WDG 4/5, increasing axle loads etc) and offcourse safety up-gradations such as TPWS Interlocking, ATCS.

Now coming back to comparisons with China (or any other nation for that matter).
I think we need to ask ourselves, is it a wise thing to do. The only similarity i find between two nations is that they have identical population but with a vast area difference. Secondly China has a distinct first movers advantage over India and rather than seeing where both of us stand today, it is important to see where as a nation we are in any sector after we started to reform.
One more thing, China has a support Eco-system as far as rail industry is concerned, which is significantly bigger than India. By this, i mean there are several contractors who have a vast experience of laying rail lines in hilly areas, building long bridges, steel industry that can manufacture several million tons of UTT rails, locomotive factories that have much larger capacity to manufacture locos and rolling stock. Chinese Railways makes a good use of leverage from these scales.
We too have these capabilities (look at L&T, AFCONS, CLW, DLW, BHEL, Phooltas Haracso, ICF, SAIL, Jindal), but when it comes to comparison, please bear in mind that since Indian market is at the moment smaller than Chinese one, there capacities are also smaller. There is no disgrace in it, we have indigenous capability to meet our requirements and even export our products. How many other nations can boast of this?

Both nations are moving on a different trajectory and if say in next 10 years, Indian railways succeeds in increasing its average speed by 30 kph for Freight, by 50 kph for passenger and commissions DFCs while ensuring that any ordinary passenger gets a confirmed ticket and is assured of a safe and comfortable journey, we all should be mighty pleased.

Yes HSTs will come to India, 70% of traffic moving on electric traction, we will double our freight carrying capacities. China will commission 500 kph+ trains, will have, even conservatively speaking 35000 kms of HST network.
All this is likely to happen by 2025.

@PARIKRAMA @AndrewJin @Bilal9 @The BrOkEn HeArT @Ankit Kumar 002 @ahojunk

 

[AndrewJin]

I'm not sure if i'm qualified to make comments here but few observations:

1. Growth in any sector depends on how a nation views it and then nurtures it. An observation that China started many years ahead of India is indeed correct as far as railways is concerned. China started investing very heavily in railway sector right from 70s and what we see is an impressive picture of China being a world leader in not only HST but also freight carrying capability on rails. This capability however is not achieved overnight. Leadership of China focused on sector and today the sector has become a true strength of Chinese economy.
2. In India like a lot of other sectors (like Power, telecom, Banking), we started to make transition from 1992 onwards after economic liberalization was taken up as a national policy. This meant rapid growth in nation's GDP and this started to put a demand on infra-structure, railways included to upgrade so as to keep in pace with industry growth. Our freight and passenger movement has since multiplied several folds since then, which translates to revenue growth for IR.
3. In almost all of 90s, Indian railways didnot have requisite funds for revamping its old network, let alone takeup new projects. Once finances improved, things slowly improved and this can be clearly seen in increase in average speed of trains, average loading per train rake and passenger movement increase.
4. The additional revenue has allowed railways to modernize by means of introducing faster rail vehicle (WAP 5/7 locomotives, LHB rakes, WDP 4 series locos etc), heavier freight movement (by introduction of stronger locos like WAG 9, WDG 4/5, increasing axle loads etc) and offcourse safety up-gradations such as TPWS Interlocking, ATCS.

View attachment 340787


Now coming back to comparisons with China (or any other nation for that matter).
I think we need to ask ourselves, is it a wise thing to do. The only similarity i find between two nations is that they have identical population but with a vast area difference. Secondly China has a distinct first movers advantage over India and rather than seeing where both of us stand today, it is important to see where as a nation we are in any sector after we started to reform.
One more thing, China has a support Eco-system as far as rail industry is concerned, which is significantly bigger than India. By this, i mean there are several contractors who have a vast experience of laying rail lines in hilly areas, building long bridges, steel industry that can manufacture several million tons of UTT rails, locomotive factories that have much larger capacity to manufacture locos and rolling stock. Chinese Railways makes a good use of leverage from these scales.
We too have these capabilities (look at L&T, AFCONS, CLW, DLW, BHEL, Phooltas Haracso, ICF, SAIL, Jindal), but when it comes to comparison, please bear in mind that since Indian market is at the moment smaller than Chinese one, there capacities are also smaller. There is no disgrace in it, we have indigenous capability to meet our requirements and even export our products. How many other nations can boast of this?

Both nations are moving on a different trajectory and if say in next 10 years, Indian railways succeeds in increasing its average speed by 30 kph for Freight, by 50 kph for passenger and commissions DFCs while ensuring that any ordinary passenger gets a confirmed ticket and is assured of a safe and comfortable journey, we all should be mighty pleased.

Yes HSTs will come to India, 70% of traffic moving on electric traction, we will double our freight carrying capacities. China will commission 500 kph+ trains, will have, even conservatively speaking 35000 kms of HST network.
All this is likely to happen by 2025.

@PARIKRAMA @AndrewJin @Bilal9 @The BrOkEn HeArT @Ankit Kumar 002 @ahojunk

I do hope we could experience HSR in India as soon as possible!
It's sometimes heartbroken for a railway fan to see the disparity between 1A/C and non-A/C seat in India.
Railway is basic pubic service, so is HSR!
HSR might be a luxury project in Japan (One scene in the documentary is about a group of Japanese tourists on Lanzhou-Urumqi HSR. One of them said, most passengers on Japan's HSR are businessmen in business suits, but in China, they could see all kinds of passengers), but when we develop our own HSR, we should design a system down to the earth, affordable to most passengers. One thing I'm concerned about India's plans is that the cost might be too big.

All freight lines in current use are kept up and maintained. There is no such thing as 'old' lines, although the lines were built to a high standard. The Railways are private, regional and run very efficiently, freight carriage rates are many times cheaper than trucking.

Again - please educate yourself...... I have no idea why I'm defending US standards to you.....and it stops right here....please don't try to compare US rail standards to developing countries.

The US leads the world in freight-rail efficiencies - end of story....

America's freight railways are quite good.

 

[endyashainin]

Railway is basic pubic service, so is HSR!

Chinese bullet trains carry half of all medium to long-distance rail passengers as of 2016. By 2025, that ratio will increase to 75%. By 2030, I think China will retire almost all conventional trains, and passenger rail will be exclusively done by bullet trains or new intercity services at 160 - 200 km/hour.

Anyone want to predict whether India will have bullet train service by 2030?

 

[Nanga Tarzan]

Here is a graph showing the comparison between Indian and Pakistan railways. The absolute numbers do not matter; it's the trendline which matters.

 

[endyashainin]

When will India have a railway station as grand and modern as this?

 

[Bombaywalla]

Indians know we have a long way to go, but the opportunistic OP should stop deluding himself into thinking he's an American, when all he is, is a piggy-backing pakistani with no life. This is all quite laughable.

 

[Surya 1]

India launched a satellite to Mars, India has two aircraft carriers.
India's GDP velocity has surpassed China
China lags behind India and China must continue to strive to surpass India.

Ofcourse ut that needs guts. You failed on moon and we succeeded on mars. so should strive to match India. 20 satellite in one launch. multi orbit launch, Sremjet test, reusable rocket launch and many more.

Well, a few Points :

1. Indian Media is SHIT, when talking about Econimics and Technology
2. 99% Educated Indians will HUMBLY ACCEPT, that China is Miles ahead in Most Areas, Thanx to the efforts made in the past 4 Decades.
3. India started its Economic Journey atleast 3 decades after China in 1990s.

But the MOST IMPORTANT Aspect of this ( so called ) RACE is the path taken by the two nations. For Example our Approach towards Space is ENTIRELY different than CHINA's. CHINA is directly trying to be an Equivanent of USA, while we are focusing on a SUSTAINED DEVELOPEMENT.

For Example, While India TODAY has all the Infra and Technology to Launch a Man in Space, But thats Not a priority. We are Focusing on 15 Tom GTO Capability As early as 2020.

Another Aspect, which will be explored sooner or Later is the Cooperatoon of the Two Economies. Chinese companese are ALREDY BUSY with Several HIGH SPEED RAILWAY PROJECTS in INDIA !

Some Interesting Ideas and Comparisions :

You see you can not compare the 2. I heard one expert differentiating between the growth stories of 2 country. He told that building a bridge in china is easy. No land acquisition issue. Any farmer's land can be taken away by government at any price for industries or infrastructure. In india, you can not do this since there shall be lots of litigation and we have to take into consideration even smallest human right aspect. So we can not develop as fast as china but our growth shall be robust. The way we have progressed inspite of so many constrains is nothing sort of a miracle compared to anything. Since we have a smart leadership in place, We are all set to grow rapidly and you shall see the results in next decade.

 

[endyashainin]

Making modern railway engines is not too hard. Indian companies build cars and ships. The public sector companies build decent electric and diesel locomotives with licensed technology

Of course it's easy for India to build modern train engines because India will be a superpower by 2020.