Indian private army chief shot dead

[Joe Shearer]

Then why the F the Maoist central committee members are: V. Subramaniam, A. Hargopal, P.S. Mukherjee, M.R. Reddy, V.K. Arya, N.K. Rao, Kobad Gandhy, S. Singh, N. Sanyal, P. Mishra, A. Bagchi, P. Bose, K. Sudarshan, A. Yadav, Ramakrishna, B.P. Singh, M. Venugopal, Misir Besra and M.L. Rao ‘Ganapathy’.

This is a list of caste Hindus and one Parsi. Of these 19, only one—Besra—is a tribal.

Why is the tribal unrepresented in the body that does battle for him?

The Maoist leadership is essentially urban, upper-caste people playing out the class warfare theory on tribal fodder.

Strange but true.

Perhaps this has been answered before .

The last line of your comment is precisely what is happening.

As long as external oppression of tribals continues, and as long as caste oppression of the Dalit continues, fringe elements and ultra-left extremists will continue to tap into this source of discontent. Denying the discontent, as some do, won't make it go away.

Your logic is based on the idea that all land owners are bourgeoisie, which they are not.

Bourgeoisie is an urban class category. It is not applicable to this situation in the rural areas.

Actually OBCs are more caste fanatics than upper castes.they form a higher percentage of hindus.as far as my knowledge is concerned OBCs didnt convert to other religions as much as dalits or upper castes did.the participation of OBCs in religious riots is also high.u hardly see any upper caste or dalit in these riots(guj may be an exception where even dalits participated)
OBCs are real flag bearers of hinduism

yaa bro ............ u are somewhat right...... the backward communities u mentioned ... they have the most prejudice against the dalit community........ and these are backward just for the name sake... they have the real power now.... they are in government and calling the shots.... i have met so many brahmins and thakur who are forced to open tea stalls and live along the road side.... and they cant get reservations... a real sad state

Here you may see the perversion of the reservation system by caste-based politics.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Maoist tribals are told by these non-tribal ideologues that their problem lies in the nature of the Indian state.

This logic is innocent of any real understanding of India.

But it works.

It works because nobody else, other than the odd few Christian missionaries or Islamic preachers, hold out an alternative.

If the stray government officer tries to do something, he is kidnapped or killed.

A far more serious and sustained effort is needed.

 

[Bhairava]

Not good news for Bihar though...Another caste war might start.. This is another political motivated move ( most probably from Lalu supporters ) to enrage public...Be assured that revenge will be taken and it wont be pleasant..

I think it is most probably Maoists who bumped him off. Hope another caste war does not start. If at all any revenge is to be taken, bump a few Maoist scum.

i am not saying that all dalits should convert to islam .....

and risk getting killed in a communal riot ?

Keep your egg-brained ideas to yourself.

Then why the F the Maoist central committee members are: V. Subramaniam, A. Hargopal, P.S. Mukherjee, M.R. Reddy, V.K. Arya, N.K. Rao, Kobad Gandhy, S. Singh, N. Sanyal, P. Mishra, A. Bagchi, P. Bose, K. Sudarshan, A. Yadav, Ramakrishna, B.P. Singh, M. Venugopal, Misir Besra and M.L. Rao ‘Ganapathy’.

This is a list of caste Hindus and one Parsi. Of these 19, only one—Besra—is a tribal.

Why is the tribal unrepresented in the body that does battle for him?

The Maoist leadership is essentially urban, upper-caste people playing out the class warfare theory on tribal fodder.

Strange but true.

Maybe SC/ST reservation is needed on the Maoist Central Committee ?

 

[Bhairava]

12 posts and you have already shown your worth , pleas dont give dravidians any more bad name . We have some genuine dravidian heroes here.

nick ji, what he said is absolutely correct. I'm an OBC and I can attest to that. I would just like to change his word of "fanatic" to "staunch followers". A slightly lesser degree perhaps.

Actually OBCs are more caste [and religion] conscious than upper castes.they form a higher percentage of hindus.as far as my knowledge is concerned OBCs didnt convert to other religions as much as dalits or upper castes did.
OBCs are real flag bearers of hinduism

I'm an OBC and what you said is 100% true

I've also added my point in red.

The caste mentality needs to mellow down among the OBC's and that is a fact.

 

[RAJPUTAANA]

Perhaps this has been answered before .

The last line of your comment is precisely what is happening.

As long as external oppression of tribals continues, and as long as caste oppression of the Dalit continues, fringe elements and ultra-left extremists will continue to tap into this source of discontent. Denying the discontent, as some do, won't make it go away.



Bourgeoisie is an urban class category. It is not applicable to this situation in the rural areas.





Here you may see the perversion of the reservation system by caste-based politics.

sir, i am a supporter of reservation system but upto certain extent...... for me reservations being granted to dalit community and tribals is a very good gesture and it must be granted for the injustice done to them throughout the history..... but how can u justify reservatin to "SOME OBC" who are very much in power and richer than the general community.... but are being granted reservations, i dont know for what..... yaa for voting criminals.... reservations has become a political tool ..... AND I WAS JUST AGAINST THAT.... I WILL ALWAYS WELCOME RESERVATIONS FOR DALITS, TRIBALS AND MOST BACKWARD CASTES AND SOME POOR OBC'S

 

[dravidianhero]

@nickindian
i have shown my worth.i am the most unbiased member in this forum.tell a pakistani or a dalit to examine my posts and tell me whether am worthy or not.

 

[Joe Shearer]

sir, i am a supporter of reservation system but upto certain extent...... for me reservations being granted to dalit community and tribals is a very good gesture and it must be granted for the injustice done to them throughout the history..... but how can u justify reservatin to "SOME OBC" who are very much in power and richer than the general community.... but are being granted reservations, i dont know for what..... yaa for voting criminals.... reservations has become a political tool ..... AND I WAS JUST AGAINST THAT.... I WILL ALWAYS WELCOME RESERVATIONS FOR DALITS, TRIBALS AND MOST BACKWARD CASTES AND SOME POOR OBC'S

We seem to be saying the same thing, then.

 

[dravidianhero]

@joe
never have i said the status of dalits is equal to remaing castes in south.it is much better compared to north and they are doing pretty well here in south

 

[Joe Shearer]

@joe
never have i said the status of dalits is equal to remaing castes in south.it is much better compared to north and they are doing pretty well here in south

No problems with most of your post. Just drop the last 9 words and I will agree with you.

 

[Thorough Pro]

What is Indian secularism? They have all sorts of social, religious, cast, sub cast dividers and yet they behave as champions of secularism and democracy? what contradiction, what a great lie.

The head of a banned upper caste private army has been killed by unknown gunmen in the northern Indian state of Bihar, police say.

Brahmeswar Singh headed the Ranvir Sena, an organisation alleged to have carried out numerous mass killings of low caste villagers.

Police said that Mr Singh was accused of more than 200 murders, all of which he denied.

Rural Bihar is a feudal society where caste barriers are rigidly enforced.

Police said Mr Singh, who was also known as Barmeshar Mukhia, was gunned down by unknown assailants in Ara in Bihar's Bhojpur district.

He formed the Ranvir Sena in 1992 and fought with lower caste groups and Maoists who opposed the upper-caste landlords.

Mr Singh spent nine years in prison on various charges and was released on bail in May 2011.

His private militia was accused of carrying out several massacres, including one in Lakshmanpur Bathe area in 1997, in which 58 dalits or "untouchables" were killed.

Mr Singh always said he was fighting for the rights of farmers.

BBC News - Indian private army chief shot dead

 

[Mech]

You know, what joe shearer says is very true. Oppression of the lower caste dalits in India are real. Just because it no longer happens in Kerala, it doesn't mean that its any less real. Two years ago, i went on a trip to visit the medical mission fields of Marthoma ( Syrian christian churches ) across India. Some of the scenes i witnessed were unbelievably horrible.

Its when i realized, that India outside of Kerala and maybe Goa is really just a very very sad place. Despite our retarded state politics and associated BS, Keralites in general live a very protected life. What we have achieved in our state ( literacy and social equality ) whether by hook or crook, must be spread to the neighboring states and eventually to the rest of India.

 

[phylumchordata]

^ in Pakistan people like him run charity organizations.

 

[Sashan]

Actually OBCs are more caste fanatics than upper castes.they form a higher percentage of hindus.as far as my knowledge is concerned OBCs didnt convert to other religions as much as dalits or upper castes did.the participation of OBCs in religious riots is also high.u hardly see any upper caste or dalit in these riots(guj may be an exception where even dalits participated)
OBCs are real flag bearers of hinduism

You are right in the context of Tamilnadu but not sure elsewhere.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What is Indian secularism? They have all sorts of social, religious, cast, sub cast dividers and yet they behave as champions of secularism and democracy? what contradiction, what a great lie.

I can understand that you find this difficult to digest. There is actually an elegant and simple explanation for this situation, where in the middle of a thousand divisions and stress lines, we maintain a secular and democratic position.

Now it's up to you. Do you want to wallow and roll about in this triumphant discovery that you have just made, or do you want to learn more about our society, and incidentally about your own?

I don't get paid for this, so whether or not I comment further depends entirely on your response, and my mood at the time.

You know, what joe shearer says is very true. Oppression of the lower caste dalits in India are real. Just because it no longer happens in Kerala, it doesn't mean that its any less real. Two years ago, i went on a trip to visit the medical mission fields of Marthoma ( Syrian christian churches ) across India. Some of the scenes i witnessed were unbelievably horrible.

Its when i realized, that India outside of Kerala and maybe Goa is really just a very very sad place. Despite our retarded state politics and associated BS, Keralites in general live a very protected life. What we have achieved in our state ( literacy and social equality ) whether by hook or crook, must be spread to the neighboring states and eventually to the rest of India.

Very true. Kerala is so, so different, it is sometimes shocking in contrast. There are two or three other places in India with a similar ambience, but....

You mentioned medical missions. You must have noticed the mind-numbing contrast between medical treatment, the physicians, the medical technicians and the general population's approach to health-care within Kerala and outside (I used to collaborate with a Church organization promoting health insurance for the poorest of the poor).

 

[jha]

First of all people discussing here the topic are totally unaware of the ground realities of the 80's and 90's...
There was not Class struggle or, ideology struggle. And Maoists/Naxals were also not one group. There were many groups among Naxals and all of them used to fight among themselves. We used to get severed heads of Dalits on the river bed whom other Dalits had killed. Everything back then was politically motivated. I myself, was involved in getting two such groups of my area together. They compromised with each other and my area is peaceful now.

However this does not mean that Private Senas were angels. When the killings continue in cycle, it is very difficult to find the actual culprit. All of this becomes reactionary.

Commentators here are probably not aware that apart from Ranveer Sena , Brahmarshi Sena , the biggest and probably most violent answer to Naxals were given by Muslims. Whenever Muslims attacked Naxals, Bullets were rarely used. They used to call it wastage of money. Now can anybody tell why were Muslims fighting the Naxals if it was a pure caste struggle..?

Situation back then was pretty screwed up as the state was being governed by a master screwer . Everybody was killing everybody. Crime had become an industry and it still is. People used to declare themselves naxals just to earn levy from the contractors.

Situation has been improving for last few years and no war is being fought there. Maoists are present in many districts of Bihar. But thats not because of any class struggle. Its because of the failure of state in not providing the basic facilities. If and when people get an opportunity to employment, all this menace will go away. People are primarily busy in earning their livelihood.