Indian private army chief shot dead

[RAJPUTAANA]

i have never been to bihar..... but i do have a bhumihar frnd and they really are not the only "EVIL" as being projected..... IF SOMEONE IS TO BLAME.... IT IS THE INDIAN POLITICS..... U CAN SEE IT EVERYWHERE.... BE IT ANY STATE.... BE IT AT THE CENTRE.... INDIAN POLITICS SUCK

 

[harpoon]

Why don't Bihar implement Land redistribution act..or is it already implemented.

 

[dravidianhero]

harpoon u see the situation by removing those caste glasses.the very fact tht naxals exist there shows tht there is a big social issue connected with mistreatment and disparities.naxals and dalits might also have done some wrongdoings.i am not denying tht either but all am asking is to look at the root cause.i am not in a delusion tht naxals are there to merely help them out.as someone said they r using them as cannon fodder.but the situation there is giving them such a chance

 

[Babhan]

Why don't Bihar implement Land redistribution act..or is it already implemented.

Other Backward castes and SC are the major land owners in Bihar. They will never allow it to happen.

 

[LaBong]

If others had followed the example of Ranvir Sena, Maoists/Naxalites would be finished today.

It is same as Salwa Judum. Both are anti Maoist/Naxalite militia. If there was no Ranvir Sena, today Naxalites would be threatening Western UP and Dilli.



You don't know the ground reality babu mosai. Read about the recent killing of dalits in Khagaria by Koiri/Kurmis, they are not upper caste. Ranvir Sena was just defending what is ours.

Yes defending your right by mass slaughtering children and women. And their reason was - "We kill children because they will grow up to become Naxalites. We kill women because they will give birth to Naxalites." It's amazing that some Indians are defending these wretched blots.

I guess the babu moshai is meant to be insulting, well I can but laugh when it comes from a bihari bhumihar.

 

[harpoon]

harpoon u see the situation by removing those caste glasses.the very fact tht naxals exist there shows tht there is a big social issue connected with mistreatment and disparities.naxals and dalits might also have done some wrongdoings.i am not denying tht either but all am asking is to look at the root cause.i am not in a delusion tht naxals are there to merely help them out.as someone said they r using them as cannon fodder.but the situation there is giving them such a chance

Just implement Land Distribution Act. Is it too difficult to understand...but it should be done by Govt, not naxals.

 

[dravidianhero]

many of these naxalites when joined into mainstream again start doing anti social activities like land settlements.i am well aware of their nature.
anyways thookkam varudhu.naa poren.ellorukkum vanakkam nanri

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

There should be no Upper caste and lower Caste system. It only creates Hate and does ambiguity in the society.Man chooses Violent option.

 

[Black Widow]

Pakistani must understand the matter of fact before opening there mouth.

in first page no one bother to understand the issue. I think i need to open a new thread to illuminate you bihar's story of that decade.

 

[rubyjackass]

In my considered opinion (three generations of my family have lived in south India), the situation is far worse in the South than in the North. There are fewer killings, but that is due to other factors and reasons, not due to a less severe climate of oppression.



If you want to say that oppression of the Dalit stopped magically, due to the spontaneous decision of the upper castes, that is contrary to all the evidence.



What did he say wrong?

I disagree. The situation in the Southern states is much better. Andhra Pradesh and Tamilnadu have implemented reservations beyond Central government quota even before the current issue of OBC reservations came up. In fact Andhra Pradesh high court is the theatre for a variety of Constitutional fights about reservation. In Kerala, the leaders themselves are visibly from varied backgrounds. I have absolutely zuk knowledge about Karnataka's caste politics. But in general it would seem that the rest of the three Southern states managed to prop up their minorities at least legally and politically. I guess since security is also better in these states, we dont see massacres by any powerful caste whether lower or higher.
What is your argument for saying that it is worse in these states?

 

[Joe Shearer]

So why kill the naxals..they should be encouraged and India should become People's republic, but before that pls grant Kerala our freedom.



Education +Land reform Act stopped it in Kerala without any violence..may be others should try it too.

Anyways last I heard uppercastes form only 20% of Bihar's population.

So why kill the Naxals indeed? It is not the business of government to kill citizens of the country. Certainly not whole sections of the politically disaffected in a breezy manner.

People do not take to armed rebellion against the state as a matter of childhood upbringing. Only harshly cruel social circumstances, gross oppression' drives them in that direction. This has been true all over India, and Kerala is no exception. It is true that the state has made huge strides since the day when K. R. Narayanan was not granted an interview by C. P. Ramaswamy Iyer because he made the mistake of wearing a silk Jubba when he went to see the great man. The fact remains that disaffection continues, and Naxals were repressed in Kerala by strong police measures, sometimes extra-constitutional measures. This cannot be sanctioned or permitted by any legitimate society or constitutional government. Police defending themselves and the general public against Naxal terrorism is legitimate; police picking up suspects and murdering them out of hand in staged encounters is not legitimate, whether it is a Vanzara in Gujarat or a Jayaram Padikkal in Kerala.

Yes, conditions are far worse in Bihar, compared to Kerala. And that is good compared to conditions in Chhatisgarh. Yes, perhaps these states should try reforms, not land reforms, but administrative reforms aimed at preventing the expropriation of tribal rights, property and common assets by upper castes and forward castes. Perhaps, even this late in the day, that might help.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@joeshearer
ur logic is flawed.if there is more oppression in south india there should be more violence.why would dalits who are more educated than north keep their mouths shut if they are being oppressed?we are not living in some medieval period.no group however backward it might be is ready to take anything lying now a days.they would definitely retaliate.i think u might be some 50 yr old guy who might have observed such scenario when u were a kid but now the situation is a lot different

I suggest you go out even today and observe conditions in which Dalits live even today. There has been a lot of change over the past 62 years that I have been alive, but not enough to make oppression vanish. Please don't fool yourself. Reddys, Khammas and Brahmins, and the trading community still keep an iron grip on the rural scene.

And please rid yourself of the illusion that the Dalit in the south is happy and contented, or that anyone who disagrees with your views has no direct information, no personal acquaintance with actual conditions prevailing. I speak from personal observation, acquired while organizing health insurance for the poorest of the poor in AP, Karnataka and Kerala (in the south) over two years of field work.

 

[Joe Shearer]

So if Yadav, OBC, Dalit CMs cannot protect backward caste..god knows who will?

Anyways I think according to your logic Govt is making a mistake by killing naxals..they should be celebrated instead.

In that case, you think wrong.

According to my logic, government should be taking major steps on a war footing to bridge the gap between Dalit and the rest of society. Steps in every sphere of administration and legislation.

Too many idiots discussing this thread and sad to know the esteemed mr joe shearer is a naxalite supporter .

One thing is for sure though until UP and bihar people dont move on from this caste system they will continue to remain as poor as sub saharan africa and drag the rest of the country backwards .

I am not a Naxal supporter. Far from it. I have faced a people's court and was lucky to get away with a rebuke. I oppose their terrorist tactics.

Pointing out that they exist, and that they exist due to deep-seated flaws in society, does not mean I become their supporter.

Try not to jump to facile conclusions.

Are Maoists really tribals?

Not always. Caste Hindus with a political agenda have aligned themselves with oppressed tribals in a smooth and systematic manner. There are elements of the movement that have turned 'economist', in a Marxist sense. There is a lot of internal strife in the various factions of Maoists.

Your logic is flawed. "Humara jameen aake koi aise nahi hathiya sakta"..means what? No one will take their land away by force.

Usually land expropriated through the accumulation of usurious debt and re-sold after foreclosure. The 'land-owning' castes own land far beyond government regulation and in defiance of land reforms.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I think you havent visited any village recently.

Is 2007-2008 recent enough for you? That is for Jharkhand, not Bihar. These village visits started with assignments in rural areas during seven years with Tata Steel at the start of my professional life, nearly forty years ago.

Go and have a visit in bihar you can see there many upper cast people still lives in a kacha houses but those so called lower cast having paka house. I dont need to mention other benifits to them through reservations and many govt schemes. And yet you are complaning

This is your caste prejudice showing through.

Even pointing out that rural life is still unfairly tilted against the Dalit means that I am complaining, not making an observation. To another idiot, it means that I am a Naxal supporter.

If you start off with the attitude that whoever is not of the same opinion as you is against you, and that whatever observation of fact does not tally with your view of how things should be is either a concocted view, or due to ignorance, why bother to discuss things at all?

Now tell me why should they get benfits from govt when financialy they are better than us. Just because our ansestor did all the wrong things against them. How does it make me culpit. Sir What kind of logic is that. Ok now tell me should we attack muslims because there ansestors where attackers and masscared large hindu population in past.

A bad analogy.

First, so-called lower castes living in pukka houses while so-called upper castes live in kutcha houses should not matter to you. What should matter is equal opportunity to education and to chances of getting gainful employment. Beyond that, those who have more money will live in better houses than those who have less. Do you realize that your resentment at this role reversal is apparent?

Second, the constitution makers never intended reservations to be a long-term feature. It was the half-hearted and grudging implementation of these measures, and the failure to come out with parallel measures, that compelled deleted extensions.

Third, nobody has suggested killing people because they are upper caste. Nobody but terrorists, who have to be dealt with as terrorists: with arms when they make armed attacks, with the full force of the law when they are captured, with every inducement to surrender when they are still at large, and with long-term and sustained reforms.

Fourth, bringing in the communal theme in this discussion is peculiar. Is that always uppermost in your mind?

Nonsense, do you have any idea how many Dalits yadavs and Koiri, kurmis have killed? Go to purnea, khagaria, naugachia, kosi belt to see it. Ahirs and Koiri kurmis are not forwards castes, they are backward castes and they are killing, oppressing the dalits. But the naxalites don't have the balls to go fight the the ahirs and koiri kurmis cause they have the numbers, are a big vote bank, so they get the support from the government.

Who cares about Bhumihars? If the government won't help us, we ll defend our land our property from naxalites and kill them like we have or die fighting.

North Bihar violence is almost over it will escalate after this killing now. Eastern Bihar Bhumihars are suffering at the hand of naxalite scum in Munger and Bhagalpur district. Rajputs are a very small group in Bihar.

I stand corrected.

Caste hostility to the Dalit is alive and well.

I was betrayed by a certain naïveté in vote-bank vocabulary.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I think if he has his way, he would kill all Germans bcs their ancestors were Nazis...whether they believed in the cause doesn't matter.

Your remark is amusing. It also makes me sad. It seems that even observing that Dalits are oppressed is an illegal statement. It also seems that it is illegal not because of lack of evidence, not because of poor interpretation of that evidence, but because you are 'forward caste' and in your personal experience, you have not yourself ill-treated any Dalit.

Let us take your very intelligent observation and turn it on its head.

Just because an individual German picked at random happened not to have personally attacked a Jew, or rounded them up andsent them to concentration camp, or turned on the Zyklon-B taps, does it mean that the holocaust never took place?