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[xeuss]

Then only can we bring in the further argument and analysis as to how specific MPs and MLAs are actually involved (w.r.t grand scheme of things like Chief ministers and Prime ministers etc) in the delivery of anti-poverty + wealth generating + development measures to an area like @Joe Shearer mentioned earlier.

They can't.

Muslims (and other communities as well) need to realize that no one leader or party is going to fulfill all your demands all the time. Neither is that leader or party going to ignore their other constituents. Maybe it is that Indian mindset where we want one leader to follow.

In politics and democracy, you need to pick and choose your support and change that as the situation evolves. Honestly, I have been impressed how AIMIM has carefully expanded its reach from outside Hyderabad.

 

[Naofumi]

In my estimation (its a limited one though), I feel Owaisi (senior brother) has done a fair enough job with the platform he has inherited/expanded through his oratory and refusal to back down on certain issues. To make it broader platform capable of vying and taking more power (which is needed to influence development pattern monies and so on), @jamahir has pointed out a way to grow it long term....it would be apt for AIMIM to look into such initiatives in India's political climate.

What issues? Triple Talaq? Personal law? My friend that's a very bad criteria. And hoping Owaisi to go secular/pro-Dalit is dangerous to Dalit politics, he's simply not liked by the majority (Hindus).

Then only can we bring in the further argument and analysis as to how specific MPs and MLAs are actually involved (w.r.t grand scheme of things like Chief ministers and Prime ministers etc) in the delivery of anti-poverty + wealth generating + development measures to an area like @Joe Shearer mentioned earlier.

MPs can do much, if they've will. And Owaisi is not your average MP, he holds leverage nationally. He can demand things for Muslims, maybe even funds but his younger brother is demanding funds for temple-Mosques. And also, why don't he expel the miscreants from his party? It makes him the same a Modi, some motormouths are given a free pass to make puke worthy statements for consolidating vote-banks.

See this guy,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1257647240371412993

https://twitter.com/x/status/1257629472557326338

 

[Nilgiri]

Got this one
https://www.newindianexpress.com/ci...e-council-for-social-development-1784801.html

OK...this can be correlated to the income poverty somewhat too I would imagine.

Now do we have time series for this?

Also we have to remember Muslim fertility rate across India only recently dropped below the 3 level (in 2011 census I believe). As compared to Hindus and other communities that have been below 3 (And some below even 2) for a decade or two decades or more previously.

This will help immensely because Muslim parents will have more resources to focus per kid for the breakout from poverty....but it will take some time, it wont happen overnight.

That's why a time series comparing the exact same thing (with same standards used) is so important. It will present the movements rather than simple current state snapshot.

 

[Naofumi]

That's why a time series comparing the exact same thing (with same standards used) is so important. It will present the movements rather than simple current state snapshot.

A timeseries for MIM party is irrelevant as they're practically ruling since independence, it was preceded by Nizami period.
If you want to evaluate only Owaisi (not his father and other predecessors), then maybe we have to look at preceding two-three census.

 

[Nilgiri]

What issues? Triple Talaq? Personal law? My friend that's a very bad criteria. And hoping Owaisi to go secular/pro-Dalit is dangerous to Dalit politics, he's simply not liked by the majority (Hindus).

Well someone has to voice the concerns, rather than acquiesce. Yes I agree its political stuff in the end...but its all part of federal republic democracy in the end.

Is there referendum done among muslim community for triple talaq and UCC? (out of interest?)

For UCC, I would see leaders like Owaisi have to be part of it for dicussions and fair compromise.

MPs can do much, if they've will. And Owaisi is not your average MP, he holds leverage nationally. He can demand things for Muslims, maybe even funds but his younger brother is demanding funds for temple-Mosques. And also, why don't he expel the miscreants from his party? It makes him the same a Modi, some motormouths are given a free pass to make puke worthy statements for consolidating vote-banks.

Well system is built up this way...people cannot be so quiet, people are not so ideal....and they are of course not perfect or complete non-hypocrites. Politics you simply cannot survive being so....because of whats entrenched there by huge inertia already.

I am not asking for perfection from owaisi clan, but good pragmatic political development.

See this guy,

There is such guys in every political party tbh...esp in our great, diverse country. Why you think I have turned more and more apolitical with time. Entropy build up.... the most toxic have biggest coverage over the "normies"...it suits everyone directional agenda much more than the stable, quieter "dedicated to actual issues" people.

A timeseries for MIM party is irrelevant as they're practically ruling since independence, it was preceded by Nizami period.
If you want to evaluate only Owaisi (not his father and other predecessors), then maybe we have to look at preceding two-three census.

Its relevant if you compare over time to other areas of India same way (that say started out roughly the same at independence)...or if you want to get more muslim demographic specific.....areas that have the same demography by religion roughly, like parts of Kerala and UP etc.

 

[xeuss]

Is there referendum done among muslim community for triple talaq and UCC? (out of interest?)

These are issues for Hindu community, not the Muslims.

Why is that? Because of the obsession that permeates within Hindu society. Both issues are regarded as "benefits" to the Muslims, hence the abnormal level of obsession for them.

 

[Nilgiri]

These are issues for Hindu community, not the Muslims.

Why is that? Because of the obsession that permeates within Hindu society. Both issues are regarded as "benefits" to the Muslims, hence the abnormal level of obsession for them.

Just asking a simple question....has there been an actual survey done among what muslims think on this stuff?

 

[xeuss]

Just asking a simple question....has there been an actual survey done among what muslims think on this stuff?

Not that I am aware

 

[Naofumi]

For UCC, I would see leaders like Owaisi have to be part of it for dicussions and fair compromise.

Owaisi sits on AIMPLB's committee and this organisation still defends TT and Halala.

I am not asking for perfection from owaisi clan, but good pragmatic political development.

Political development still should include prosperity of their representative community, Modi got his mileage because of so-called Gujarat Model, even the likes of Yogi are making visible efforts for FDI, relaxing labor laws and all. And moreover, MIM is dead without Owaisi, there's not a single sane leader other than him.

There is such guys in every political party tbh...esp in our great, diverse country. Why you think I have turned more and more apolitical with time. Entropy build up.... the most toxic have biggest coverage over the "normies"...it suits everyone directional agenda much more than the stable, quieter "dedicated to actual issues" people.

Minority parties need to be extra careful because :
Hindu hate speech -> Muslim consolidation.
Muslim hate speech -> Hindu consolidation.
which is more dangerous?

Its relevant if you compare over time to other areas of India same way (that say started out roughly the same at independence)...or if you want to get more muslim demographic specific.....areas that have the same demography by religion roughly, like parts of Kerala and UP etc.

We're evaluating Owaisi, should the criteria of judging him be some random gutkhachaap MP from UP or say Gujarat Model? Yes, it maybe possible he did an average job but then I can't get satisfied with an average job when we Muslims need much more.

These are issues for Hindu community, not the Muslims.

Why is that? Because of the obsession that permeates within Hindu society. Both issues are regarded as "benefits" to the Muslims, hence the abnormal level of obsession for them.

Muslim stats (including TFR) are worrying, some regard personal law as a partial culprit.

 

[xeuss]

Muslim stats (including TFR) are worrying, some regard personal law as a partial culprit.

BS. A Muslim in India does not encounter personal law unless in matters or marriage and inheritance. How does a Muslim marriage being conducted by an Imam affect community stats.

 

[Naofumi]

BS. A Muslim in India does not encounter personal law unless in matters or marriage and inheritance. How does a Muslim marriage being conducted by an Imam affect community stats.

1) I don't necessarily agree with it either.
2) How would you explain this (I am really looking for a good explanation)?

3:31 AM here, logging off now.

 

[xeuss]

1) I don't necessarily agree with it either.
2) How would you explain this (I am really looking for a good explanation)?

What does that have to do with the Personal Law?

Kerala is doing economically and socially better than rest of India

 

[pothead]

Bottom line is Modi cannot be defeated, because the Hindu mind has been hacked to the extent that they have disassociated any failure from him and that they vote for him to "teach the Muslims a lesson".

You are getting the sequence wrong.

1. Muslim consolidation happened
2. Caste consolidation happened
3. Hindus consolidated

That is the correct sequence,
talking about recent Hindu consolidation without speaking about muslim consolidation for past few decades is what the so called "liberals" do.

Doubt Amit Shah will be alive then. He looks very sick at the moment. We are fervently praying for his health.

Everyone dies...
name one being, no matter how self proclaimed powerful etc etc...who did not die.

LOL...wishing some one death means that guy really got under your skin.
You lot are already defeated....

I don't know why the Hindu, the average Hindu hates Islam or Muslims. It does not make any sense to me at all. Even when I take a step back. When I try to think rationally and not as a Muslim. Nothing comes to mind.

Who is hating whom?
Who are the kaafirs?

And what is the above picture representative off?

 

[AfrazulMandal]

And what is the above picture representative off?

Syncretic culture.

Big deal.

 

[pothead]

Syncretic culture.

Big deal.

As long as it's a temple thats destroyed and desecreated - it's beautiful.
Let's try the same with some of YOUR religious structures....

Anyway, your post in a nutshell is Indian secularism & why have completely stopped believing your kind.