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Indian Navy to purchase 16 US multi-role choppers for $1 bn

True, do you have any infos, or are you able to talk about Sikorsky's coming projects like the S-97 or the JMR helicopter offer? If yes we can open a dedicated thread in the Air Warfare section, would be highly interested in more infos on these developments.
I retired from Sikorky 2.5 years ago so I was familiar with the X2 demonstrator (chief pilot was a friend of mine) that led to the Raider. The Raider is still in the demonstrator stage so quite a ways to go before it goes into production. I do not have much info on it. As far as the JMR is concerned , that happened after I left so I am in the same boat as you as far as being knowledgeable about it.

@Rikbo why not IN why MH-60 instead of S-70B and what are the major difference between both platform.
Here is my post from another forum repeated here(with some additional info I just added):

They are different, most notably with regards to the mission system. (The airframes are both made by Sikorsky). The S-70B was designed for the international market place. It was designed to be easily modified and tailored for each customer. This is due to the fact that most, if not all, international customers will want to integrate capabilities or equipment not current available on an existing configuration of that aircraft and Sikorsky has substantial experience in doing this. The MH-60R was designed for the US navy. The system has to be "dumbed down" (restricted equipment must be removed) to create an exportable version and then new capabilities or equipment integrated. This is a much more difficult and labor intensive task. The MH-60R is employs a single operator to handle both tactical and accoustic functions in the rear of the aircraft. This "integrated sonics" approach offers some advantages including requiring one less crew member but it does not meet the criteria for dual operators for the Indian navy. The MH-60R does not have an anti ship missile integrated other than the Hellfire (The S-70B has the Penguin). 60R uses the FLASH sonar, S-70B uses the HELRAS sonar (I believe the FLASH will be integrated for India). The mission system operator interface and overall design (Done by Lockheed Martin) has been criticized by operators and pilots as not being very user friendly and other info indicates on going problems with the system. An upgrade is in the works including adding a track ball to enhance operator interaction with the system but in initial testing this has received only luke warm reviews by the crews. The S-70B uses a Multi-Slew Controller (MSC) which is awesome in allowing the operators to graphically interact with the mission system. The S-70B mission system is a Sikorsky and Rockwell Collins design that is now in its 5th generation. It is, in my opinion, the best in mission systems out there. It has been continually updated over the years to add new capabilities and address obsolescence issues. The new Automatic Flight Control System (AFCS) & Weapons Management System (WMS) are examples that offer outstanding capabilities. The MK-54 torpedo (which India is getting as part of tis P-8 patrol aircraft purchase) has already been fully integrated.
Lockheed Martin is working on a "Green" export version of the MH-60R that I believe will offered for the next tender. The 60R was not chosen for this tender because it was only offered via the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) procedure which India did not want. I expect that it will be offered as Direct Commercial Sale in the next tender. But, I believe it will prove almost impossible to overcome the S-70B momentum assuming Sikorsky does its usual good job and India is happy with the aircraft they receive. Turkey, Singapore, & Brazil have all placed follow-on orders for the 70B so that should say something about their satisfaction with the aircraft.
 
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Here is my post from another forum repeated here(with some additional info I just added):

They are different, most notably with regards to the mission system. (The airframes are both made by Sikorsky). The S-70B was designed for the international market place. It was designed to be easily modified and tailored for each customer. This is due to the fact that most, if not all, international customers will want to integrate capabilities or equipment not current available on an existing configuration of that aircraft and Sikorsky has substantial experience in doing this. The MH-60R was designed for the US navy. The system has to be "dumbed down" (restricted equipment must be removed) to create an exportable version and then new capabilities or equipment integrated. This is a much more difficult and labor intensive task. The MH-60R is employs a single operator to handle both tactical and accoustic functions in the rear of the aircraft. This "integrated sonics" approach offers some advantages including requiring one less crew member but it does not meet the criteria for dual operators for the Indian navy. The MH-60R does not have an anti ship missile integrated other than the Hellfire (The S-70B has the Penguin). 60R uses the FLASH sonar, S-70B uses the HELRAS sonar (I believe the FLASH will be integrated for India). The mission system operator interface and overall design (Done by Lockheed Martin) has been criticized by operators and pilots as not being very user friendly and other info indicates on going problems with the system. An upgrade is in the works including adding a track ball to enhance operator interaction with the system but in initial testing this has received only luke warm reviews by the crews. The S-70B uses a Multi-Slew Controller (MSC) which is awesome in allowing the operators to graphically interact with the mission system. The S-70B mission system is a Sikorsky and Rockwell Collins design that is now in its 5th generation. It is, in my opinion, the best in mission systems out there. It has been continually updated over the years to add new capabilities and address obsolescence issues. The new Automatic Flight Control System (AFCS) & Weapons Management System (WMS) are examples that offer outstanding capabilities. The MK-54 torpedo (which India is getting as part of tis P-8 patrol aircraft purchase) has already been fully integrated.
Lockheed Martin is working on a "Green" export version of the MH-60R that I believe will offered for the next tender. The 60R was not chosen for this tender because it was only offered via the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) procedure which India did not want. I expect that it will be offered as Direct Commercial Sale in the next tender. But, I believe it will prove almost impossible to overcome the S-70B momentum assuming Sikorsky does its usual good job and India is happy with the aircraft they receive. Turkey, Singapore, & Brazil have all placed follow-on orders for the 70B so that should say something about their satisfaction with the aircraft.

That is a good explanation there.

May I also add that there is a distinct possibility that GoI/IN will want to incorporate some Indian-Origin eqpt in this Helo as in the P-8I Poseidons. Plus there has always been Indian sensitivity to accepting all the US protocols that attach to some eqpt of US origin. Hence, logically; the S-70 is the version being considered...... rather than the MH-60.
 
Dude this is a Direct Commercial Sale! Of course it is about the money. Sikorsky is not in business for politics. But they do have some of the best helicopter products in the world so India wins as well. What's wrong with that? Any competitive vendor will try to outdo the competition. Nothing wrong with that either. As far as forming a partnership with India to manufacture the next batch in India, that's just good business as well!.

Hi. Thanks for the nice info you provided in post above .

well I am not against US product as such ( although personally I am not a great fan of US ) . and nothing wrong in buying the best product in the market whatever country that may originate from ....
I was just reminding some of the jubilant members against celebrating this as a mark of deepening of Indo-Us ties ...

as you summed it yourself this is a commercial deal , that's it .

thanks once again .
 
the Turks got 17 of these for nearly half the price
Oh really? So you have both contracts in your hands and are comparing them line item for line item. I don't think so. Also, substantially different aircraft than what the Turkish Navy has. Get your facts together and then talk to me. I am tired of answering these shotgun posts.
 
Lockheed Martin is working on a "Green" export version of the MH-60R that I believe will offered for the next tender. The 60R was not chosen for this tender because it was only offered via the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) procedure which India did not want. I expect that it will be offered as Direct Commercial Sale in the next tender. But, I believe it will prove almost impossible to overcome the S-70B momentum assuming Sikorsky does its usual good job and India is happy with the aircraft they receive. Turkey, Singapore, & Brazil have all placed follow-on orders for the 70B so that should say something about their satisfaction with the aircraft.

Sir, this was something I was wondering. Would there be any serious issues in terms of training, logistics and maintenance with the IN's S-70Bs if the MH-60R ("Green" version or otherwise) was selected for the follow on deal?
 
Sir, this was something I was wondering. Would there be any serious issues in terms of training, logistics and maintenance with the IN's S-70Bs if the MH-60R ("Green" version or otherwise) was selected for the follow on deal?
Most certainly. Since the entire cockpit is different that would impact training, maintenance, and logistics significantly. Also, airframes, though they look the same, are different. 60R makes more use of machined parts than the 70B. Not sure about engines. Also, 60R has an older AFCS and completely different approach to weapons management so different equipment there as well. All in all, a big impact and therefore a big cost.

While not relevant to this thread, I would like to offer my sincere condolences to your country and the families of those who suffered the horrific outrage of having friends and loved ones killed today by the Taliban. So many children, so much sadness is in my heart! My heart and soul go out to you all and I will keep you in my prayers tonight and for many nights to come!
 
Oh really? So you have both contracts in your hands and are comparing them line item for line item. I don't think so. Also, substantially different aircraft than what the Turkish Navy has. Get your facts together and then talk to me. I am tired of answering these shotgun posts.

I do not have "both contracts in my hands" but I have something called the ability to do Google searches. No i havent examined the line items - nor I have interest to. Was just noting something that was worth noting.

got a problem? Get off the forum or just dont reply to my post


Turkey gets extra Sikorsky helicopter
 
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No, fucking asshole, I do not have "both contracts in my hands" but I have something called the ability to do Google searches. No i havent examined the line items - nor I have interest to. Was just noting something that was worth noting.

got a problem? Get off the forum or just dont reply to my post


Turkey gets extra Sikorsky helicopter
It's actually 24 mate. @Rikbo No they're not that different. As for price tag, that's where NATO membership helps :D


When was the payment made ?
 
Most certainly. Since the entire cockpit is different that would impact training, maintenance, and logistics significantly. Also, airframes, though they look the same, are different. 60R makes more use of machined parts than the 70B. Not sure about engines. Also, 60R has an older AFCS and completely different approach to weapons management so different equipment there as well. All in all, a big impact and therefore a big cost.

While not relevant to this thread, I would like to offer my sincere condolences to your country and the families of those who suffered the horrific outrage of having friends and loved ones killed today by the Taliban. So many children, so much sadness is in my heart! My heart and soul go out to you all and I will keep you in my prayers tonight and for many nights to come!
Thanks for the reply sir. In that case it makes perfect sense to simply go for the S-70B for the follow-on contract otherwise the IN is just inviting needless headaches, would there be any explicit benefit from going for the MH-60R for the follow-on contract? I can't see any.
 
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