Indian Navy News & Discussions

[ni8mare]

Am I crazy or does "4x Brahmos surface to surface vertical launcher" imply 32 Brahmos (with each VL having 8 missiles)?

I don't know .....what you said is true according what has given at the description

4 X Brahmos launcher
4 X AK630
4 X Torpedo

Which is 4 X Brahmos launcher means 4 X 8 = 32.......may be nirbhay ??? 16 nos

I hope that this time the momentum is not lost and maybe another 4-6 P-17As are built or the P-17A's follow-on class begins construction the moment the P-17As are in service.

Exactly this should be done

 

[Abingdonboy]

Which is 4 X Brahmos launcher means 4 X 8 = 32.......may be nirbhay ??? 16 nos

16 Brahmos and 16 Nirbhay is not a bad arsenal at all and exact Brahmos:Nirbhay ratios can be altered according to the mission.

 

[ni8mare]

16 Brahmos and 16 Nirbhay is not a bad arsenal at all and exact Brahmos:Nirbhay ratios can be altered according to the mission.

We have to wait for final product then only we will able to see.......

Perhaps but don't forget the IAC-1 will have the RAN-40L along with the MF-STAR so perhaps the IN will settle on this combo for all future major warships.

both RAN and arudhra has 400 km range only differ in frequency ......so wouldn't be better to go indian radar

 

[Ankit Kumar]

2022?

By then we would have decommissioned out older 3 frigates and may be 1 Brahmaputa class too. We will be short legged on frigates.

WTF, get addition Talwars, sign the Admiral Grinogovic class and we start getting them by 2018.

 

[Abingdonboy]

2022?

By then we would have decommissioned out older 3 frigates and may be 1 Brahmaputa class too. We will be short legged on frigates.

WTF, get addition Talwars, sign the Admiral Grinogovic class and we start getting them by 2018.

Adttional Talwars are coming but forget about the Admiral Grinogovic

 

[Penguin]

Some interesting infor on the P-15B from the "Make in India week" exhibition in Mumbai:

Am I crazy or does "4x Brahmos surface to surface vertical launcher" imply 32 Brahmos (with each VL having 8 missiles)?

If the 15B is lengthened a bit, I don't see a reason why there couldnt be a second set of 2 eight-celll VLU in the rear, thus doubling the VLUs for Brahmos to 32 cells, which would be split between anti-ship and land-attack versions. 15A has 16 cells, which I assume hold 8 anti ship and 8 land attack missiles under normal conditions.

 

[Penguin]

Adttional Talwars are coming but forget about the Admiral Grinogovic

Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate

AFAIK the Grigorovich class are based on the Talwar-class frigate but feature VLS for the SAM instead of a single rail launcher.

The class's original gas turbines were made by Ukrainian state-owned emterprise Zorya-Mashproekt. The company was a center of Soviet maritime gas turbine design and production. The last three vessels remain without engines as of November-December 2014.

But after the Russian seizure of Crimea and incursions into Donetsk/Luhansk, Ukraine would no longer supply the engines. Instead Russian manufacturer Saturn was initially asked to supply alternative M90FP turbines. However these cannot be completed before 2019-2020, and this delay seemingly means the Navy would rather use the funds elsewhere. Thus Russia is now hoping to find an export customer for the final three vessels. "The Defence Ministry is reallocating the money, initially set aside for the other three frigates, to the construction of other ships it badly needs."

Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If India can acquire the powerplants directly from Ukraine, and Ukraine can still deliver them, I see no reason why these ships couldn't go to India. Would be a win-win-win if you ask me. Russia is rid of the ships, minimizing its loss. Ukraine still gets to sell its engines. India gets several ships very quickly.

 

[randomradio]

If the 15B is lengthened a bit, I don't see a reason why there couldnt be a second set of 2 eight-celll VLU in the rear, thus doubling the VLUs for Brahmos to 32 cells, which would be split between anti-ship and land-attack versions. 15A has 16 cells, which I assume hold 8 anti ship and 8 land attack missiles under normal conditions.

New and heavier designs are planned after the P-15B is complete.

The P-15/P-15A/P-15B have the same hull design, but different superstructure.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate

AFAIK the Grigorovich class are based on the Talwar-class frigate but feature VLS for the SAM instead of a single rail launcher.


Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If India can acquire the powerplants directly from Ukraine, and Ukraine can still deliver them, I see no reason why these ships couldn't go to India. Would be a win-win-win if you ask me. Russia is rid of the ships, minimizing its loss. Ukraine still gets to sell its engines. India gets several ships very quickly.

Sir I think work is in different phases for ships from 2 to 5.
I think the first one is almost ready so the Russians will be using it themselves.
Also if we get the hull and all other things, and Ukraine makes a fuss about its propulsion, cannot we get GE Turbines on it?

Adttional Talwars are coming but forget about the Admiral Grinogovic

Seems like I did a spelling mistake. I meant the improved Talwars.The one Penguin wrote about.
Not Admiral Gorshkov-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
a true multipurpose frigate but I don't think IN will go for a 3rd platform.

 

[randomradio]

If India can acquire the powerplants directly from Ukraine, and Ukraine can still deliver them, I see no reason why these ships couldn't go to India. Would be a win-win-win if you ask me. Russia is rid of the ships, minimizing its loss. Ukraine still gets to sell its engines. India gets several ships very quickly.

IN is interested in the Talwar class for indigenous production with Reliance ADAG. They will most likely won't accept the Grigorovich because they have already been built. This goes against IN's plan to indigenize production.

Maybe if the frigates come really cheap.

 

[Penguin]

New and heavier designs are planned after the P-15B is complete.

The P-15/P-15A/P-15B have the same hull design, but different superstructure.

It would not surprise me if 2 more eight cell VLUs can be worked into the design.

 

[randomradio]

It would not surprise me if 2 more eight cell VLUs can be worked into the design.

A navy official said the P-15A can hold more missiles. There was no mention of adding more Brahmos VLS, but I think they have made arrangements to add the Nirbhay.

16 Brahmos is already a lot. The FCS can fire 8 at once, reload and launch the remaining 8 in 2 minutes.

 

[Penguin]

Sir I think work is in different phases for ships from 2 to 5.
I think the first one is almost ready so the Russians will be using it themselves.
Also if we get the hull and all other things, and Ukraine makes a fuss about its propulsion, cannot we get GE Turbines on it?

Perhaps. Though I would assume that means extra cost. Why would Ukraine make a fuss about sale to India? After all, their alternative option is no sale of Ukrainian produced powerplant i.e. no compensation for the loss of projected orders for Russia i.e. no money.

Seems like I did a spelling mistake. I meant the improved Talwars.The one Penguin wrote about.
Not Admiral Gorshkov-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
a true multipurpose frigate but I don't think IN will go for a 3rd platform.

I you look closely at the Gorshkov class (project 22350) design, you see the lineage (i.e. Krivak III > Talwar > I-Talwar > Grogorivich > Gorshkov), even though Gorshkov is clearly a very new design. There is an export version on offer (project 22356, which has armament closer to Grigorivich, displayed at Euronaval 2010)). So, You could have a stepping stone there.

IN is interested in the Talwar class for indigenous production with Reliance ADAG. They will most likely won't accept the Grigorovich because they have already been built. This goes against IN's plan to indigenize production.

Maybe if the frigates come really cheap.

This refers to units 4, 5, and 6, which have been ordered. Admiral Butakov (4) was laid in July 2013; and Admiral Istomin (5) was laid down in November 2013. The 6th unit was planned but not yet laid down. So, its 2 ships at different stages of completion but neither finished yet. And possibly but probably not a third, yet to be laid down.

In october 2015 is was reported
"The Admiral Makarov was laid down on February 29, 2012. The delivery of the ship is scheduled for 2016.

This year will see the delivery of the Admiral Grigorovich and the Admiral Essen frigates. The lead ship is completing the manufacturer’s sea trials. The first serial ship is undergoing the mooring trials.

Under two contracts signed with the Russian Ministry of Defense, Yantar Shipyard is to build a series of six frigates of Project 11356 developed by the Northern Design Bureau. The shipyard has laid keels of five frigates. The six one, the Admiral Kornilov will be laid down soon."
Yantar Shipyard launches Navy's frigate Admiral Makarov (photo)
See also
Russian Navy Third Project 11356 Frigate Admiral Makarov Launched by Yantar shipyard

"Later on, one of the projected vessels was cancelled. The five Admiral Grigorovich-class frigates are set to increase the firepower and defensive capabilities of the Black Sea fleet stationed in Crimea exponentially as each of these ships is a formidable force even when it stands alone.
Two Modern Guided Missile Ships to Reinforce Russia’s Naval Guard in 2015

 

[Penguin]

A navy official said the P-15A can hold more missiles. There was no mention of adding more Brahmos VLS, but I think they have made arrangements to add the Nirbhay.

16 Brahmos is already a lot. The FCS can fire 8 at once, reload and launch the remaining 8 in 2 minutes.

I seem to recall (but I'ld have to go search real hard) reading in the past - in the era prior to Barak 8 - that there would be double the VLUs on P15A (2x one set of 16 Brahmos VL + 24 VL SHtil). But maybe I'm mistaking.

Anyway, the original P15 mounts a Shtil launcher in the rear. VL Shtil in 2x12 doesn't take more space than the single rail launcher .The current 2x8 cells for Barak 8 are much smaller and probably occupy less volume below deck. This suggests room could possibly be found either for extra Barak 8 launchers or Brahmos launchers.

Naval Open Source INTelligence: New warship plans stalled by Ministry's JV freeze

Any pics of models older than this?

 

[randomradio]

Anyway, the original P15 mounts a Shtil launcher in the rear. VL Shtil in 2x12 doesn't take more space than the single rail launcher .The current 2x8 cells for Barak 8 are much smaller and probably occupy less volume below deck. This suggests room could possibly be found either for extra Barak 8 launchers or Brahmos launchers.

There is most definitely more space at the back. This is on the P15A.

But models are models, there are always differences.

Any pics of models older than this?

No, this is the oldest I've seen.