Indian Navy News & Discussions

[Penguin]

The Kastan's were found to be ineffective in Indian conditions hence the reversion to the AK-630 for the last batch of Talwars and also hence why the Kashtan is NOT being invited to bid in the IN's ongoing CIWS competition. So the IN fell back on the trusted AK-630 that is well known to them and being built under-licence in India.


All future main IN warships (IAC-1, P-17A, P-15B, LHD/LPD etc etc) will have this next-fen CIWS not the AK-630 just like the Viky.


Like I said, the IN wants to minimise the Viky's time in dock and maximise its time at sea. You or I saying it is a minor job and won't take much time to install the BARAK-1 are commenting as outsiders with little insight into the ground realties. The IN is making their decisions from an informed position with all the facts in front of them and have made this decision accordingly...

The judgment on Kahstan is irrelevant (and made that system irrelevant)

I'm sorry but Barak is about 2m long and its launcher takes 'depth' of only a single deck. It can be easily installed in or on deck. The guns are 'bolt on' to a welded base.

 

[Penguin]

Keep in mind the original Gorshkov was designed to have 4x2 AK630s (it would not be difficult to install some AK230 or 630 at the stern positions, which were original gun positions.)

 

[Abingdonboy]

Keep in mind the original Gorshkov was designed to have 4x2 AK630s (it would not be difficult to install some AK230 or 630 at the stern positions, which were original gun positions.)

But sir, do you not understand the IN doesn't want the AK-630 as their go-to battling gun CIWS anymore?

 

[Penguin]

But sir, do you not understand the IN doesn't want the AK-630 as their go-to battling gun CIWS anymore?

You are saying they'ld rather be unarmed than use available weapons? And this after they've standardized most IN ships on the AK630 + Barak combo?

 

[Abingdonboy]

You are saying they'ld rather be unarmed than use available weapons? And this after they've standardized most IN ships on the AK630 + Barak combo?

So from no until the end of time you expect the IN to have the AK-630 on their frontline warships? They've got to start anew sometime with some ship, here it seems the Viky will be the first ship the IN will outfit with its next generation of gun-based CIWS. The Viky may come in and have the BARAK-1 installed at some point but I suspect the IN will simply wait off until the BARAK-2 is ready and integrate both systems in one go along with this new gun-based CIWS.

 

[Penguin]

So from no until the end of time you expect the IN to have the AK-630 on their frontline warships?

Aw, don't be silly now. In truth though, IN will need a secondary gun in its major ships. So, if it isn't AK630 then what?

They've got to start anew sometime with some ship, here it seems the Viky will be the first ship the IN will outfit with its next generation of gun-based CIWS. The Viky may come in and have the BARAK-1 installed at some point but I suspect the IN will simply wait off until the BARAK-2 is ready and integrate both systems in one go along with this new gun-based CIWS.

IN has adopted Barak 1 for close in missile defense. AK630 serves as secondary gun in general and as one half of a gun/missile combo for selfdefence against missiles. If the SAMs are good enough, the gun won't need to be used for missile defence.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Aw, don't be silly now. In truth though, IN will need a secondary gun in its major ships. So, if it isn't AK630 then what?


IN has adopted Barak 1 for close in missile defense. AK630 serves as secondary gun in general and as one half of a gun/missile combo for selfdefence against missiles. If the SAMs are good enough, the gun won't need to be used for missile defence.

Well the IN is asking for bids from the likes of THALES for the Goalkeeper and Raytheon for the Phalanx for their next generation of secondary gun for their warships. The AK-630 is clearly in need of replacement it is a relatively outdated system these days.


The secondary gun option is the very last line of defence, one can't rely on self-defence missile CIWS (like BARAK-1) that is the general philosophy behind having a gun-based CIWS AND missile based CIWS. You can see this philosophy being used by the IN and USN (operating the RAM AND PHALANX in parallel on most of their larger ships). It makes sense to want to have this last line of defence (gun-based CIWS) as capable as possible and the AK-630 just isn't the best system on the market, its autonomous modes are nowhere near as effective as the likes of the Phalanx or Goalkeeper. Perhaps it is the IN's exposure to the Phalanx on the INS JALASHWA that has brought about this demand for a new gun-based CIWS.

 

[DacterSaab]

What about it? It is neither LPD nor LHD. Folks shouldn't confuse multi-role-ship (principally a landing ship, with dock, with peacetime humanitarian tasks) with Joint support ship (the latter principally being a resupply vessel, with strategic lift capability: no dock)

I'm sorry I wasn't very clear so it happens due to me being high all the time but let me try and rephrase

Could you are anybody else please tell me if the IN is interested in purchasing JSS?

As I recall I read somewhere, where someone had suggested that IN combine the two orders (LPD and JSS) and purchase both of them based on same platform. there was also a very good picture showing a LPD and a JSS both based on the Mistral platform. That picture is probably why i remember so much.

I'd be very thankful

 

[Penguin]

Well the IN is asking for bids from the likes of THALES for the Goalkeeper and Raytheon for the Phalanx for their next generation of secondary gun for their warships. The AK-630 is clearly in need of replacement it is a relatively outdated system these days.


The secondary gun option is the very last line of defence, one can't rely on self-defence missile CIWS (like BARAK-1) that is the general philosophy behind having a gun-based CIWS AND missile based CIWS. You can see this philosophy being used by the IN and USN (operating the RAM AND PHALANX in parallel on most of their larger ships). It makes sense to want to have this last line of defence (gun-based CIWS) as capable as possible and the AK-630 just isn't the best system on the market, its autonomous modes are nowhere near as effective as the likes of the Phalanx or Goalkeeper. Perhaps it is the IN's exposure to the Phalanx on the INS JALASHWA that has brought about this demand for a new gun-based CIWS.

Actually, IIRC:
the Burkes don't currently have RAM, only Phalanx
the newest Burkes don't even have Phalanx: they will rely on quadpacked RAM block 2 and ESSM from MK41 for antimissile defense. (i.e. an all-missile approach)
Barak 1 by itself is a perfectly good anti-missile system.

But all this is still besides the point: if you have an unarmed vessel and access to an existing weapons set from a retiring vessel, there is no excuses not to use this, even if you've got a different idea in mind for the long term and the whole fleet.

USS Michael Murphy (DDG-112) at Pearl Harbor in December 2013
File:USS Michael Murphy (DDG-112) at Pearl Harbor in December 2013.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Penguin]

I'm sorry I wasn't very clear so it happens due to me being high all the time but let me try and rephrase

Could you are anybody else please tell me if the IN is interested in purchasing JSS?

As I recall I read somewhere, where someone had suggested that IN combine the two orders (LPD and JSS) and purchase both of them based on same platform. there was also a very good picture showing a LPD and a JSS both based on the Mistral platform. That picture is probably why i remember so much.

I'd be very thankful

Perhaps you are confusing Mistral and Fincantieri's 20,000 t Multifunctional Ship (Fincantieri is provided the Deepak class replenisher and is involved in IAC)?
File:Fincantieri's 20,000 t Multifunctional Ship.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[nomi007]

New Picture of Viki at her home

 

[Water Car Engineer]

P-17A, Next Gen Shivalik

 

[Gessler]

P-17A, Next Gen Shivalik

Have you noticed, the RBU-6000s in the rendering seem to be missing in the silhouette on top...only the
block in between seems to be there.

I would be more than happy if they drop the RBUs from this next-gen design.The rest of the hull and
deck seems to be very clean except for those RBU launchers. I'm not sure if they're looking to
enclose the CIWS guns in an internal chamber/bay as well.

 

[Penguin]

Have you noticed, the RBU-6000s in the rendering seem to be missing in the silhouette on top...only the
block in between seems to be there.

I would be more than happy if they drop the RBUs from this next-gen design.The rest of the hull and
deck seems to be very clean except for those RBU launchers. I'm not sure if they're looking to
enclose the CIWS guns in an internal chamber/bay as well.

The RBU-6000's are a backup to 533mm heavyweight ASW torpedoes, and possibly also serve as a last ditch hardkill defensive weapon against torpedoes (kind of a 'underwater ciws').

As for the silhouette, here's an actual RBU-6000 equipped Shivalik: I think the silhouette rendering includes RBU's

 

[Indus Falcon]

Some more good news from the indian navy!!

Major Warships Crippled by Lack of Spares for Upgrades
By N C Bipindra - NEW DELHI

Published: 06th April 2014 06:00 AM

Last Updated: 06th April 2014 08:25 AM

India’s major warships are facing a shortage of spare parts for their normal, medium and short refit programmes that might explain the regular accidents, including equipment failures that have happened in recent times.

For all warships, particularly those of Russian origin, only 50 per cent spares are available with the Mumbai and Visakhapatnam naval dockyards for their refits. These are much below the demand for spares and have resulted in delays in the refit programmes or in low satisfaction levels after the refits. These refits are usually midlife upgrades of the warships, required to make these modern fighting machines last longer than their envisaged service life that could extend from 20 to 30 years.

In the 37 warships recently audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) for refit performance, it was found that lack of spare parts hit the midlife upgrades, including those of key surface combatants.
Among the warships hit include the Delhi class and Rajput class mainline Destroyers; amphibious warships such as the recently inducted INS Jalashwa bought from the US in 2007, apart from Gharial and Magar; and the Talwar class frigates built at a Russian shipyard.

Among those audited included those involved in recent accidents/incidents reported since August 2013, including INS Talwar, INS Vipul and INS Konkan.

A minor fire was reported on board INS Konkan, a minesweeper, when it was under a refit programme at the Visakhapatnam naval dockyard in early December 2013. INS Vipul, a corvette/missile vessel, reported a gaping hole found in the pillar compartment in late 2013.

Though the CAG audit has not directly linked the incidents involving the three warships in the last seven months to the lack of spares, the report submitted by the government auditor to the Parliament in February points towards the lack of best practices for maintenance of key strategic assets of the Navy and the Defence Ministry establishments in charge of procurements.

Major Warships Crippled by Lack of Spares for Upgrades -The New Indian Express