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The visiting IN/DRDO delegation thereafter discovered that the Kashtan-M’s 9M311 missile was unable to engage sea-skimming targets at a distance below 1.5km (as opposed to the Barak-1’s 500 metres) and its warhead weight was only 9kg, as opposed to the Barak-1’s 22kg.
This would be a problem

During prior price-cum-contractual negotiations Russia had vigorously objected to the IN’s requests for installing two key non-Russian systems--Barak-1 PDMS and an integrated platform management system of Canadian origin (from L-3 MAPPS) on board these FFGs, citing prohibitive systems integration costs and systems integration risks as being the main reasons. Consequently, Russia’s offer of the Kashtan-M CIWS, built by Tulamashzavod, was accepted without any rancour by both Navy HQ and the DRDO.
So, IN didn't really want Kashtan to begin with

n May 2003, the MoD revealed that India planned to buy an additional 10 Barak-1 PDMS by 2008. Later the same year, between November 16 and 22, two Barak-1 missiles fired from INS Delhi failed to hit their targets twice in trials conducted off the coast of Mumbai. In both instances, the Barak-1s failed to intercept two Russia-built P-18 Termit anti-ship cruise missiles whose warheads had been deactivated and replaced with telemetry tracking electronics. Following detailed investigations, the failures were attributed to electro-magnetic interference problems (involving the EL/M-2221 STGR radar and the Delhi’s MR-90 Orekh illuminators used for the Shtil-1 area air defence system) that were later rectified
Barak 1 isn't infallable either. Also, this illustrates what may happen if you retrofit Barak 1 to he Talwars.

TRISHUL: The Indian Navy’s CIWS Saga
 
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IAC03.jpg
 
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Informative video of Kolkata class Destroyer.

@Abingdonboy @sancho any senior members.........IS THAT KOLKATA CLASS DESTROYER ,doesnt look like it but the guy who put the video up,claims it is.Check out @ 3.55
 
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Informative video of Kolkata class Destroyer.

@Abingdonboy @sancho any senior members.........IS THAT KOLKATA CLASS DESTROYER ,doesnt look like it but the guy who put the video up,claims it is.Check out @ 3.55

That's not Kolk. That's an Israeli ship used in PR for MFSTAR radar: -

 
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Yes, but take into account that the P17 Shivalik class frigate is pretty much the same size as the P15 Delhi class destroyer, which has 2x24 9M317, 4x8 Barak-1 and 2x AK 630.... Talwar class is 2/3 displacement of Shivalik class, and P16/16A is yet a little smaller!

Yes, P-17 is quite massive for a frigate. I have learnt that P-17A will displace about 6,700 tons, I don't
know if that's empty load or full load though.

I think with the implementation of Barak-2 on P-17A will render the Barak-1 useless. The B2 itself can
do anything B1 or pure anti-aircraft SAMs can do.

Do you think BrahMos-2 is needed for P-17A or BrahMos-1 with upgrades is enough? I'm asking because
I've been looking at some new anti-ASCM defences being developed in the West like the MBDA SeaCeptor.

As re. Kashtan, I would like to hear more details about the apparent problems as experienced by IN. What is the issue in IOR: heat, humidity? If so, what effect to the Kashtan? WHy? Is it the guns, the ammo supplyu system, the missiles, the missile storage or the missile reloader, or the radar or the optics, or the command module that is giving trouble?

It should be noted new Russian (project 22350) and Russian made export ships (e.g. to Vietnam) are getting Palma/Palash. Question is why. Kashtan systems in use are not being removed and replaced, though.

Meanwhile, IN could have chosen to adopt that instead of Kashtan, and/or backfit to earlier Talwar's. But they have not done so. Question is again why.

The link you have posted above (TRISHUL blog) can you tell you everything about this problem, if it
hasn't done that already, that is.

You can post any question you have in the comments section of the latest running thread and the
blog owner (Prasun K. Sengupta) will eventually turn up to answer you.
 
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The J-20- a compelty unproven aircraft built by a nation that has not at all displayed the know how to produce a VLO aircraft?

I wouldn't be so sure sir.



I don't see it as being as clear cut as that. But if it is so bror sure the F-35C is the way to go with a few Growlers thrown in.

Even the "Silent hornets" are not what the IN needs looking beyond 2022-5.

Its a clear cut fact. Navy wouldnt go for F-35 IMHO. Because they know that they can have a similar fighter in 2-3 years with better advantages, consider NFGFA. They will for sure operate a AWE, so V-22 osprey or E2D Haweye they have to buy.

This is will be one of a kind of deal with USofA, dont be surprised if Uncla sam asks us to sign the CISMOA or LSA too. It will be interesting to watch.
 
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Yes, P-17 is quite massive for a frigate. I have learnt that P-17A will displace about 6,700 tons, I don't
know if that's empty load or full load though.
That's Kolkata class dsiplacement equivalent... So essentially, IN will have a GP type frigate with ASW emphasis and a GP type destroyer with AAW emphasis.

I think with the implementation of Barak-2 on P-17A will render the Barak-1 useless. The B2 itself can
do anything B1 or pure anti-aircraft SAMs can do.
On large vessels, maybe, but smaller vessel might still (continue to ) use Barak 1. I can see eventually Barak I installed on some now on some larger ships being moved to other, smaller ships as Barak-8 comes available to those larger ships. Still, notably even USN uses ESSM and SM2 side by side (complementary capability + why wast a long range missile on a target that has already closed in to some extent).

Do you think BrahMos-2 is needed for P-17A or BrahMos-1 with upgrades is enough? I'm asking because I've been looking at some new anti-ASCM defences being developed in the West like the MBDA SeaCeptor.
"I think we will need about five years to develop the first fully-functional prototype (of the hypersonic missile). We have already carried out a series of lab tests at the speed of 6.5 Mach," said Sivathanu Pillai, Chief Executive Officer of the Russian-Indian joint venture Brahmos Aerospace.
Joint Russia-India missile to be ready by 2017 | NDTV.com

"We have the guidelines and technology to make Hypersonic missile. However, tests have to be conducted for configuring with the propulsion and the engine and flight tested, which would take at least five years," Pillai said.
BrahMos 2 Hypersonic Missile to be ready in five years - Economic Times

Said in 2012 > 2017 first prototype >

Considering that P-800 Oniks development reportedly started in 1983. By way of an advanced seeker and very high speed, it was intended to defeat the most formidable USN anti-missile defenses, namely the AN/SLQ-35(V)5 Sidekick EW system and RIM-116 RAM point-defense missile. In 1991 the project was put on semi-hiatus due to the post-Soviet financial crisis. An inert prototype was displayed at an arms expo in 1993. It was only in 1999 that the design was declared ready for service and not until 2001 were actual live missiles issued to frontline units.

The BrahMos has been developed as a joint venture between the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) of India and the Federal State Unitary Enterprise NPO Mashinostroyenia (NPOM) of Russia under BrahMos Aerospace. BrahMos was first test-fired on 12 June 2001. Since late 2004, the missile has undergone several tests from variety of platforms. The vertical launch of BrahMos was conducted on 18 December 2008. On 21 March 2010, BrahMos was test-fired and struck a free-floating ship. On 7 October 2012, the Indian Navy successfully test-fired BrahMos from the guided missile frigate INS Teg. The submarine-launched variant of Brahmos was test fired successfully for the first time from a submerged pontoon on 20 March 2013.


In March this year, India and Russia held talks to jointly develop the hypersonic cruise missile and agreed on a general outline of the design. It was decided that a joint working group will be created to chalk out the parameters of the missile in cooperation with developers and their respective contribution. So, considering the history of Oniks as well as Brahmos I, it may well be that the first OPERATIONAL Brahmos II will not be forthcoming for 5+5 years (2022). The first P17A meanwhile is planned for 2015... so, it will initially have to use Brahmos 1. Brahmos II may be needed to defeat future defences, including directed energy weapons (as with armor versus missile, it is a cycle of threat and counter)

That's not Kolk. That's an Israeli ship used in PR for MFSTAR radar: -

SAAR V to be precise.

That was a total giveaway mate!

Darn, and I'll have to kill anyone who figures it out.... :sniper:

:partay:
 
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huge upper deck! (F-35?).

I don't think Japan has signed up for any F-35Cs...or have they?

Izumo is likely to house helos of various types (may include V-22 Osprey variants in future) for a long
time to come - by then maybe Japan will develop it's own VTOL version of ATD-X.
 
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