Indian Navy Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta Spells Out Vision 2022

[nitesh]

may be,but we have a long tradition of using carriers and have evolved doctrines to handle any threat,they have their plans we have ours so why do you worry .we will also have better infusion of western and indian technology in mig-29k and nlca hopefully even e-2d to tackle su-33s,IN has been ready for anything , still is and will be the same in the future.

Your point seems to be correct as IN has long experience using carriers. But e-2d handling the SU 33? I am not getting u.

But the last line is good one, seems more about getting more budget.

 

[lovemess17]

Your point seems to be correct as IN has long experience using carriers. But e-2d handling the SU 33? I am not getting u.

But the last line is good one, seems more about getting more budget.

e-2d will give aew and battlefield management capabilities which can give our naval fighters an upper hand as neither plan nor russia has any it its class to offer to the plan.

 

[nitesh]

But then the planes of IN should be compatible to NATO standard. I mean should use link 16, which the current lot doesn't, I think if SH is selected as MRCA winner and Navy decides to go ahead with it for commonality of maintenance etc. then we may see e-2d.

 

[Jliu]

there is a possibilty for that too.........it can carry out suicide attacks on enemy subs or ships entering our territorial waters..

That is pure rubbish. And the mission role is what torpedoes fill.

 

[jaison]

That is pure rubbish. And the mission role is what torpedoes fill.

no pal a torpedo does not identify,track,and take out subs.......the name says it all 'autonomous' underwater vehicle.but these can take some time

 

[Jliu]

no pal a torpedo does not identify,track,and take out subs.......the name says it all 'autonomous' underwater vehicle.but these can take some time

BS it doesn't.

In addition AUVs are not even capable of independently completing a sensor-shooter cycle.

I assure you I keep well abreast of undersea developments and I tell you now that the future of undersea warfare will a) remain manned and b) grow in importance.

And as for the carrier issue, for all their faults the Chinese are taking the right approach to a comprehensive naval grand strategy. Mehta seems to be stuck in neutral.

 

[jaison]

BS it doesn't.

In addition AUVs are not even capable of independently completing a sensor-shooter cycle.

I assure you I keep well abreast of undersea developments and I tell you now that the future of undersea warfare will a) remain manned and b) grow in importance.

And as for the carrier issue, for all their faults the Chinese are taking the right approach to a comprehensive naval grand strategy. Mehta seems to be stuck in neutral.

whatever, y r u steamed up........mehta is a competent leader we have our own requirements and will procure equipment to deal with threats .....even the chinese r not excited so y ar u.....i dont know y paks speak so proudly abt china(china is great,china rules indian is BS) give me a break ,chinese expansion is our problem y r u so excited as if ur navy is goin to get 3 carriers.

 

[Jliu]

whatever, y r u steamed up........mehta is a competent leader we have our own requirements and will procure equipment to deal with threats .....even the chinese r not excited so y ar u.....i dont know y paks speak so proudly abt china(china is great,china rules indian is BS) give me a break ,chinese expansion is our problem y r u so excited as if ur navy is goin to get 3 carriers.

Firstly in regards to the torpedo issue that is exactly the function of a torpedo, a component of the system-not the platform whatever that may mean to you.

Secondly my 'Chinese sounding' username does not automatically make me Chinese by any measure. The difference between serving personnel and civilians is that you make assumptions w/o respect for the circumstances of the issue or any research at all.

Thirdly I have returned from New Delhi on what I'm calling a three day 'fact finding' visit and I am not impressed with the intermediate-long term procurement plans of the IN for the undersea arm-which quite frankly have been 'hijacked' by the naval aviation mob whose key project has been delayed so many times not one officer I have spoken with has been able to inform me when IOC and delivery will be reached. Furthermore funds earmarked for the next 6 SSKs have been diverted to other projects whose scale I can only guess and our recommendations for grand naval strategy have been ignored despite the flowery speech on naval strategy by Mehta which you have posted. Additional funds will be requested for the 6 SSKs but the timeframe has been pushed back by at least a year while progress on systems integration on the IN surface fleet is on-off despite the crap in newspapers reporting how much progress has been made due to the commendable efforts of the IAF in grabbing a bigger share of the budget pie.

As my background is undersea warfare and you say the PLAN is your problem, I'll ask you for a platform that almost won both WWI and II for Germany how many boats (SSK, SSN and discounting the obsolete Mings) does the PLAN operate/building/reaching IOC compared to their IN equivalents in the 2008-2012 timeframe?

 

[jaison]

Firstly in regards to the torpedo issue that is exactly the function of a torpedo, a component of the system-not the platform whatever that may mean to you.

Secondly my 'Chinese sounding' username does not automatically make me Chinese by any measure. The difference between serving personnel and civilians is that you make assumptions w/o respect for the circumstances of the issue or any research at all.

Thirdly I have returned from New Delhi on what I'm calling a three day 'fact finding' visit and I am not impressed with the intermediate-long term procurement plans of the IN for the undersea arm-which quite frankly have been 'hijacked' by the naval aviation mob whose key project has been delayed so many times not one officer I have spoken with has been able to inform me when IOC and delivery will be reached. Furthermore funds earmarked for the next 6 SSKs have been diverted to other projects whose scale I can only guess and our recommendations for grand naval strategy have been ignored despite the flowery speech on naval strategy by Mehta which you have posted. Additional funds will be requested for the 6 SSKs but the timeframe has been pushed back by at least a year while progress on systems integration on the IN surface fleet is on-off despite the crap in newspapers reporting how much progress has been made due to the commendable efforts of the IAF in grabbing a bigger share of the budget pie.

As my background is undersea warfare and you say the PLAN is your problem, I'll ask you for a platform that almost won both WWI and II for Germany how many boats (SSK, SSN and discounting the obsolete Mings) does the PLAN operate/building/reaching IOC compared to their IN equivalents in the 2008-2012 timeframe?

kanna no one cares if u r not impressed and u visited delhi so who told u these so called 'facts'..............i will tell u the facts...................6 scorpenes will be inducted by 2017(including delay),rfp for second line of subs will be floated for 6-7 subs and they may be inducted by post 2020 and L&T is also bidding for constructing them in its own new modular shipyard at hazira and thus will be constructed faster than the scorpene(another reason for delay in scorpene is setting up new infrastructure and expertise)which will not be the problem at hazira and modularity of shipyards also allows easy contruction............the next line of subs to replace kilos will be indegenous....
info abt project-17a,p-15a,p-15b stealth frigates and destroyers is given here
Defense Technology International - April 2008
the ssbn atvs reactor has gone critical and reports hav come that it will be launched on the republic day next year.....akula-ii will also be arriving by next year.the acoustic signature(including heat from reactor) of atv will be lower than type-094 as it will be smallest ssbn in the world......the above article will also suggests that ads-2 will be ther by 2017...........the ads-2 and atv-2 and 3 will be built at hazira as the orders r overflowing in other shpyard the orders r so huge that s.koreas ship building agencies have been consuted for building in their own shipyards..............personally i hope to see american littoral combat ship in indian colors.....

 

[jaison]

u can also read this thead
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence-military/9722-untold-story-secret-undersea-weapon.html
abt atv

 

[Jliu]

kanna no one cares if u r not impressed and u visited delhi so who told u these so called 'facts'..............i will tell u the facts...................6 scorpenes will be inducted by 2017(including delay),rfp for second line of subs will be floated for 6-7 subs and they may be inducted by post 2020 and L&T is also bidding for constructing them in its own new modular shipyard at hazira and thus will be constructed faster than the scorpene(another reason for delay in scorpene is setting up new infrastructure and expertise)which will not be the problem at hazira and modularity of shipyards also allows easy contruction............the next line of subs to replace kilos will be indegenous....
info abt project-17a,p-15a,p-15b stealth frigates and destroyers is given here
Defense Technology International - April 2008
the ssbn atvs reactor has gone critical and reports hav come that it will be launched on the republic day next year.....akula-ii will also be arriving by next year.the acoustic signature(including heat from reactor) of atv will be lower than type-094 as it will be smallest ssbn in the world......the above article will also suggests that ads-2 will be ther by 2017...........the ads-2 and atv-2 and 3 will be built at hazira as the orders r overflowing in other shpyard the orders r so huge that s.koreas ship building agencies have been consuted for building in their own shipyards..............personally i hope to see american littoral combat ship in indian colors.....

What a rant.

I am not going to respond to half of what you have posted, merely to say that I am a serving RAN officer assisting the IN (and has assisted the PN) on naval strategy and systems integration and that is enough. New articles and fanboy links are next to useless-find me a serving IN officer with whom I can discuss issues further.

In terms of SSK/SSN numbers the IN has (2008-2012)
-10 refitted 877 (Kilo)-performance roughly on par with PN A-90s
-4 T209 (which might as well be scrapped and will be when the first two P75 Scorps reach IOC)
-1 Akula II (if reports are to be believed)

-6 Scorpene, IOC 2013+ (not counted for purposes of this comparison)
-6 New SSK, IOC 2017+? (RFPs are currently delayed)
-2? ATV SSN (not even going to speculate as even I don't know enough)

compared to the PLAN (2008-2012)
Chinese Submarines - SinoDefence.com (put together by knowledgeble mil-blogger TP Huang)

And that's just in five minutes off the top of my head with an assist from TP.

Go do the math.

 

[jaison]

What a rant.

I am not going to respond to half of what you have posted, merely to say that I am a serving RAN officer assisting the IN (and has assisted the PN) on naval strategy and systems integration and that is enough. New articles and fanboy links are next to useless-find me a serving IN officer with whom I can discuss issues further.

In terms of SSK/SSN numbers the IN has (2008-2012)
-10 refitted 877 (Kilo)-performance roughly on par with PN A-90s
-4 T209 (which might as well be scrapped and will be when the first two P75 Scorps reach IOC)
-1 Akula II (if reports are to be believed)

-6 Scorpene, IOC 2013+ (not counted for purposes of this comparison)
-6 New SSK, IOC 2017+? (RFPs are currently delayed)
-2? ATV SSN (not even going to speculate as even I don't know enough)

compared to the PLAN (2008-2012)
Chinese Submarines - SinoDefence.com (put together by knowledgeble mil-blogger TP Huang)

And that's just in five minutes off the top of my head with an assist from TP.

Go do the math.

i dont care if u dont believe me.....considering already existant infrastructure at hazira and assuming that there is no delay in tot the 1st of the second line will take 4years,so if it is rfp is issued in 2009 then approval will be in 2011 and const in 2012(but dpp-2008 can accelerate it much faster) then add four years 2016-2022(as i said before) all will be delivered....this calc includes delays usually experienced except tot and infrastructure............in submarines stealth has utmost priority and every one know that scorpene and upcoming sybs are the best in it.if u do the mistake of flooding the oceans with subs then chances are there that u can give away your positions.....and akulas are the most silent in the region and atv must be upto its technological level(as one does not shift from higher tech to lower tech)...........and most of the chinese subs in ur post r old and noisy and emplying them will be suicide mission considering tha advanced subs ,asw platforms,p-8i which will arrive by that time.........and most wud have been retired and will be replaced by smaller no of yaun class subs(which cannot cmpare with scorpene)....atvs reactor is smaller than the type-094 and thus gives out less heat,sound,sonar cross section.........atv is called the 'baby boomer'......IN subs will also have blackshark torpedoes which currently are the most advanced..
regards

 

[jaison]

China already has a fleet of more than 60 locally built conventional and nuclear submarines, but these are mostly obsolete or plagued by technical problems. In fact, some analysts believe that Beijing's latest submarine order is an admission that a decades-long effort to develop a domestic submarine-building industry has largely failed. Nevertheless, experts believe some of China's locally built submarines could still play a role alongside the Russian imports in a crisis.
THE DEFENCE INDUSTRY
and also read this
World Navies Today: Chinese Submarines
yaun is just a modified kilo and is still having technical probs
Yuan Type 039A Type 041
and plan is goin to replace song,romeo class subs with lesser no of more advanced yaun.so the no wont remain at 55.

 

[Jliu]

i dont care if u dont believe me.....considering already existant infrastructure at hazira and assuming that there is no delay in tot the 1st of the second line will take 4years,so if it is rfp is issued in 2009 then approval will be in 2011 and const in 2012(but dpp-2008 can accelerate it much faster) then add four years 2016-2022(as i said before) all will be delivered....this calc includes delays usually experienced except tot and infrastructure

For the purposes of this academic exercise we are discussing the 2008-2012 timeframe. Not ten years dwon the track where you can make up a few other excuses to cover the incompetance of some bureaucrat.

............in submarines stealth has utmost priority and every one know that scorpene and upcoming sybs are the best in it.

The statement of the month

"Best"? Don't make me laugh. There is no such thing as "best" in undersea warfare.

if u do the mistake of flooding the oceans with subs then chances are there that u can give away your positions

You CAN. But more likely you'll dominate the entire maritime battlespace.

and akulas are the most silent in the region and atv must be upto its technological level(as one does not shift from higher tech to lower tech)...........

Plain Wrong. That honour belongs to the 688 of which one of that class is always on station at Diego Garcia.

and most of the chinese subs in ur post r old and noise

That applies to the 14 SSKs in service with the IN currently. The PN A-90B is regarded as on par acoustically with the refitted 877 Kilos-and the SONG-G and Yuans incorporate much of what the French have to offer in terms of quieting techniques.

and emplying them will be suicide mission considering tha advanced subs ,asw platforms,p-8i which will arrive by that time

Can your platforms (which are NOT networked) even detect/engage/destroy a SYSTEM of PLAN/PN SSKs?

No.

atvs reactor is smaller than the type-094 and thus gives out less heat,sound,sonar cross section.........atv is called the 'baby boomer'......IN subs will also have blackshark torpedoes which currently are the most advanced..
regards

Tell me, did you just make up the heat, sound, sonar cross section? There is NO such thing. Try that in your high school exams.

 

[Jliu]

China already has a fleet of more than 60 locally built conventional and nuclear submarines, but these are mostly obsolete or plagued by technical problems. In fact, some analysts believe that Beijing's latest submarine order is an admission that a decades-long effort to develop a domestic submarine-building industry has largely failed. Nevertheless, experts believe some of China's locally built submarines could still play a role alongside the Russian imports in a crisis.
THE DEFENCE INDUSTRY
and also read this
World Navies Today: Chinese Submarines
yaun is just a modified kilo and is still having technical probs
Yuan Type 039A Type 041
and plan is goin to replace song,romeo class subs with lesser no of more advanced yaun.so the no wont remain at 55.

Four 'TO DO' points for homework.

1. Learn how to spell. When you post a link saying '"Yuan Type 041" and above and below it(TWICE) manage to spell "Yaun" it just shows how backwards you are.

2. Stop posting crap which other people have written (although if forced to choose it certainly is preferable to the crap you post). This is a defence forum with credibility. If you want to post speculative junk dating back several years like above go do it at Indian Defence Forum or somewhere like that.

3. Read what I've posted on the IN procurement of SSKs in the "IN Tender for six additional SSKs" in the Indian Defence page.

4. Talk to any IN officer-preferably one who is retired and was involved with the undersea warfare arm to see how things are really done. I'm not reading anything you've linked because for reasons I've just explained I don't need to.