Indian MoD to Push for 124 More MBT Arjun Mark II - DRDO's CLGM to replace Israeli LAHAT Missile!

[Tshering22]

Pretty much garbage. Some chap who claimed to be the bodyguard of Netaji Subas Chandra Bose says something & the gullible & the converted rush to join the line.

If you can provide a counter with some sort of evidence, then you could perhaps convince the 'converts'.

Otherwise it is simply a verbal diarrhea.

 

[axisofevil]

Oops my mistake, I read it as I cannot support Parrikar any more......





Pretty much garbage. Some chap who claimed to be the bodyguard of Netaji Subas Chandra Bose says something & the gullible & the converted rush to join the line.

We know the article is not real but it brings up some interesting points. Regardless....Congress has been in control of India for the 57 out of 65 yrs since India gained Independence. What country's relations could be harmed? The British? Why? We got rid of them. Any normal thinking India would know the British would use any tactics they could. Its not a surprise.


Im going on the record to say its Russia but not their fault entirely. Probably, due to Nehru turning a blind eye. Getting rid of NETAJI ensured his family remained in control of India forever. That's exactly what we have to today.

Only a gullible, converted idiot would deny Congress has been running India like an Oligarchy or Monarchy.

 

[The enlightened]

One thing, the FMBT is crap thing, it took 17 yrs for CRVDE to come up with a new tank Arjun Mk1, and thats a appreciated achievement without any supporting industrial military complex. The FMBT have to be evolutionary like Leopard. DRDO cant go now for another way around.
Firm the order of 500 Mk.2, so that Avadhi production line able to mature for future production. And sanction the funds for Mk.3 with 50to limitation, a high caliber rifled gun, more importantly ask GE or Honeywell for gas turbine for Mk.3.

The FMBT have to be evolutionary .

Why 50t limitations? If the reports are right then Arjun has even lower ground pressure than T90. Plus every western tank is like 60t nowadays(except for the Frenchies)

 

[kaku1]

Why 50t limitations? If the reports are write then Arjun has even lower ground pressure than T90. Plus every western tank is like 60t nowadays(except for the Frenchies)

Yes, you are correct. But still the IA dont like Heavy Tank, the end user in not western countries for Arjun, but it actually its IA. There so called logistic problem, I dont know how much it true after scrapping Sunderji doctrine and commencing the Cold Start.

Which goal is to grab only 40-50 km inside enemy territory, and hold them, the goal is not now to reach Islamabad. No urban warfare or Bridge crossing is such a problem in Cold Start. I dont know actually why IA rejecting a best home grown solution instead of foreign one.
Instead if we spend money on Arjun, even if it is more expensive than T-90, then this money remain in India, and can be used as further R&D development.

One thing, FMBT have to be evolutionary with GE or Honeywell solutions for Gas Turbine.

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

One thing, the FMBT is crap thing, it took 17 yrs for CRVDE to come up with a new tank Arjun Mk1, and thats a appreciated achievement without any supporting industrial military complex. The FMBT have to be evolutionary like Leopard. DRDO cant go now for another way around.
Firm the order of 500 Mk.2, so that Avadhi production line able to mature for future production. And sanction the funds for Mk.3 with 50to limitation, a high caliber rifled gun, more importantly ask GE or Honeywell for gas turbine for Mk.3.

The FMBT have to be evolutionary .

As of now there is no follow on project in the Arjun series after Mark II and it's unlikely they will have one - the DRDO has already started with the design of the FMBT. There is a lot more than just reducing the weight - Cushioning the FMBT’s ride will be one of the Arjun’s unique successes, its hydro-pneumatic suspension unit (HSU), which smoothens the jerks from driving fast over uneven cross-country terrain. The initial FMBTs will have improved Arjun HSUs, while CVRDE proposes to develop an “active suspension” by 2030. Active Suspension is the future - This has sensors scrutinizing the terrain just ahead of the tank and making anticipatory adjustments before the tank’s tracks roll over that area.

BTW it may have have taken 17 years for CVRDE for Arjun Mark I but interestingly it took them just 3 years to come up with the mark II variant!

Why 50t limitations? If the reports are write then Arjun has even lower ground pressure than T90. Plus every western tank is like 60t nowadays(except for the Frenchies)

Don't know but then also the IA cancelled the Tank EX project - a light tank that just weighed 47 tonnes. The Tank Ex had successfully undergone six months of extensive trials - two prototypes built but then the IA cancelled it.

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[kaku1]

As of now there is no follow on project in the Arjun series after Mark II and it's unlikely they will have one - the DRDO has already started with the design of the FMBT. There is a lot more than just reducing the weight - Cushioning the FMBT’s ride will be one of the Arjun’s unique successes, its hydro-pneumatic suspension unit (HSU), which smoothens the jerks from driving fast over uneven cross-country terrain. The initial FMBTs will have improved Arjun HSUs, while CVRDE proposes to develop an “active suspension” by 2030. Active Suspension is the future - This has sensors scrutinizing the terrain just ahead of the tank and making anticipatory adjustments before the tank’s tracks roll over that area.

BTW it may have have taken 17 years for CVRDE for Arjun Mark I but interestingly it took them just 3 years to come up with the mark II variant!

That have to be Mk.3 bro, otherwise by 2020 in no way DRDO can come up with new tank. The reason behind Mk.2 was evolutionary model, because all the essential subsystems was already developed for Mk.1.

FMBT have to be evolutionary of Arjun, otherwise in no way even by 2025 or 2030, DRDO able to provide a new tank.
Everywhere in world, always evolutionary model is chooses, if it is China or Russia or Germany.

 

[Dr Gupta]

Reports from China is that they are working on a specific light tank well suited for the mountainous region of Tibet which will be used in a blitzkrieg rapid offensive if there is clash with India in the future. India needs to place attack helicopters in various positions to safeguard it's positions along the border.

 

[kaku1]

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I dont know how much it is true, but its a PKS story. That IA again pursuing for Tank Ex as gap filler, and want to upgrade T-72 on Tank Ex standards.

BTW @Chanakya's_Chant there is any news of Advanced Tank-Ex on chassis of T-90?

 

[anonymus]

One thing, FMBT have to be evolutionary with GE or Honeywell solutions for Gas Turbine.

 

[kaku1]

Becuase a Gas Turbine like LV-100 provide higher power to weight ratio, instant acceleration, high torque, smokeless exhaust unlike Diesel and more efficient( around 33% reduction in fuel capacity).
Why in Combat Shipbuilding ,Navies moving to Diesel to CODAG, this same apply here.
This create the space for more arms and ammunition, and ultimately reduce weight of tank.

 

[MehrotraPrince]

I knew it!! 2 years ago on this forum, I had said the same thing. But at that time all the 'analysts' mocked me for saying that there is a fundamental problem and that Army has the right to import.

Turns out, it was all wrong and because UPA ministers and the 'Yes Madam' generals like Deepak Kapoor ruined all the game plan. Now we are behind by 10 years and have to start from where NDA-1 had left.

What a shame! 10 years lost due to intellectual terrorism, brainwashing the Indian mass into believing that they can't do anything themselves!

For this alone, there should be an ordinance passed, limiting the freedom of the crony media who played hands in glove to mislead the nation.

I know few of them, they are present every where, self proclaimed experts.
They called Arjun crappy, Tejas draggy and what not, but when independent agencies do the analysis then results are all different, recent report on Arjun is just one case.

No one is claiming that our products are the best in world, we developed them for our needs and most of the times it met all the user requirements. Yes delay do happen when you develop such a complex technology.......but critics are blind when our users like indian Army or IAF comes with out of world requirement by adding all the best parameters from brochures of different platforms and asking to integrate them in single platform in just one go.

See how many times tenders have not been replied by global venders just because either they don't have such weapons or platforms or are reluctant to supply. Tender for UCAV is one such case.

 

[kaku1]

I know few of them, they are present every where, self proclaimed experts.
They called Arjun crappy, Tejas draggy and what not, but when independent agencies do the analysis then results are all different, recent report on Arjun is just one case.

No one is claiming that our products are the best in world, we developed them for our needs and most of the times it met all the user requirements. Yes delay do happen when you develop such a complex technology.......but critics are blind when our users like indian Army or IAF comes with out of world requirement by adding all the best parameters from brochures of different platforms and asking to integrate them in single platform in just one go.

See how many times tenders have not been replied by global venders just because either they don't have such weapons or platforms or are reluctant to supply. Tender for UCAV is one such case.

In no way, again, in no way, Arjun and Tejas are crappy. The problem is with industry that they cant support product like this, and ultimately it causes problem inside induction.

Tejas Mk.1 is one of the best fighter for point defense, it able to easily handle the threat of JF-17 and J-10A, but not J-10B. Thats why Mk.2 development going on,

 

[anonymus]

Becuase a Gas Turbine like LV-100 provide higher power to weight ratio, instant acceleration, high torque, smokeless exhaust unlike Diesel and more efficient( around 33% reduction in fuel capacity).
Why in Combat Shipbuilding Navies ,moving to Diesel to CODAG, this same apply here.
This create the space for more arms and ammunition, and ultimately reduce weight of tank.

Yes, BUT

Gas turbine Engine are better in Power/Weight ratio, on all other parameters they suck big time. They follow Brayton cycle and their efficiency is shittier (when compared to an IC engine) than sewage drain outside dharvi to the extent that they give zero output at highest efficiency, which btw is Carnot efficiency, not 100% (which is thermodynamically impossible).Their peak output power wrt to pressure ratio curve is parabolic while their efficiency curve is exponential.The pressure ratio that gives maximum power output is not even 20% of that which gives maximum efficiency ( highest pressure ratio limit ).

Gas turbines are bound to be fuel guzzlers and are unsuitable to be put on tanks, least they are followed by a caravan of fuel tanks wherever they go. Apart from that, Gas turbines are high maintenance and prone to breakdown.

High acceleration in ground vehicles could be achieved by using Gears.


Navies use Gas turbines to provide large specific impulse for a short amount of time in order to maneuver fast in face of incoming missiles. They do not use gas-turbines for primary motive system in day to day navigation.

 

[Abingdonboy]

One thing, the FMBT is crap thing, it took 17 yrs for CRVDE to come up with a new tank Arjun Mk1, and thats a appreciated achievement without any supporting industrial military complex. The FMBT have to be evolutionary like Leopard. DRDO cant go now for another way around.
Firm the order of 500 Mk.2, so that Avadhi production line able to mature for future production. And sanction the funds for Mk.3 with 50to limitation, a high caliber rifled gun, more importantly ask GE or Honeywell for gas turbine for Mk.3.

The FMBT have to be evolutionary .

Agreed with you up until the weight of the Mk.3, the way armour is moving is heavier not lighter, the Mk.3/FMBT won't be lighter than the MK.2 nor should it be. Many had envisaged light armour to be the next logical step for armoured vehicles about a decade or so back but the reality has turned out very different and now all next generation/evolutionary MBTs and IFVs are heavier than the vehicles they are replacing. I don't think this is lost on the DRDO or IA, they have likely scrapped the notion the FMBT/Mk.3 will be lightweight.

By the way there was talk the IA was considering making the FMBT the Arjun Mk.3 anyway.

Yes, you are correct. But still the IA dont like Heavy Tank, the end user in not western countries for Arjun, but it actually its IA. There so called logistic problem, I dont know how much it true after scrapping Sunderji doctrine and commencing the Cold Start.

IA is going to have to scrap their doctrine entered around medium weight Russian MBTs one way or another and if they end up buying 500+ Arjuns (Mk.1s and 2) they will have to create the requisite infrastructure to support them and thus change their ethos.

There is no way back now, the IA is moving towards the Western MBT style of operations.

Reports from China is that they are working on a specific light tank well suited for the mountainous region of Tibet which will be used in a blitzkrieg rapid offensive if there is clash with India in the future. India needs to place attack helicopters in various positions to safeguard it's positions along the border.

If they try it they will be ripped to shreds by Indian armour (T-90) and aviation (LCH, Rudra and Apache).

 

[Bang Galore]

If you can provide a counter with some sort of evidence, then you could perhaps convince the 'converts'.

Otherwise it is simply a verbal diarrhea.

Counter what? Some random rubbish? The verbal diarrhea is not from me......