Indian forces criticised for lack of co-ordinated response in Mumbai

[s90]

Israel : India's rescue efforts 'premature and badly planned'

Israel defence officials have criticised the way Indian security forces have handled the terror attacks in Bombay, after it appeared that India turned down their offer of help to defeat the militants.

The officials, from Israel's security forces, told The Jerusalem Post that the Indian troops prematurely stormed the besieged hotels where militants were holding hostages, risking lives in the process.

Indian counter-terrorist forces were well trained but failed to gather sufficient intelligence before engaging the terrorists, they said.

"In hostage situations, the first thing the forces are supposed to do is assemble at the scene and begin collecting intelligence," said a former official in Shin Bet, the Israel Security Agency

"In this case, it appears that the forces showed up at the scene and immediately began exchanging fire with the terrorists instead of first taking control of the area," he said.

Ehud Barak, the Defence Minister, has expressed his concerns about the safety of Israelis caught up in the attack, such as those held hostage in the Jewish Centre stormed in the early hours of this morning.

Seventeen commandos abseiled onto the roof of Nariman House, while snipers peppered the building with covering fire. The two year old son of Rabbi Gavriel Noach Holtzberg, the main representative at the Jewish Centre, was rescued along with some other hostages but this morning gunshots and explosions still echoed around the building.

The security experts' criticism came as it emerged that Mr Barak had offered Mayankote Kelath Narayanan, India's National Security adviser, any assistance possible, either humanitarian or professional.

"Barak offered Israel's help in an advisory capacity and in any other way it could be of assistance, be it humanitarian or professional," it reported.

The two countries have close defence ties. India has bought more than $5 billion worth of Israeli equipment

 

[Goodperson]

Israel : India's rescue efforts 'premature and badly planned'

Israel defence officials have criticised the way Indian security forces have handled the terror attacks in Bombay, after it appeared that India turned down their offer of help to defeat the militants.

The officials, from Israel's security forces, told The Jerusalem Post that the Indian troops prematurely stormed the besieged hotels where militants were holding hostages, risking lives in the process.

Indian counter-terrorist forces were well trained but failed to gather sufficient intelligence before engaging the terrorists, they said.

"In hostage situations, the first thing the forces are supposed to do is assemble at the scene and begin collecting intelligence," said a former official in Shin Bet, the Israel Security Agency

"In this case, it appears that the forces showed up at the scene and immediately began exchanging fire with the terrorists instead of first taking control of the area," he said.

Ehud Barak, the Defence Minister, has expressed his concerns about the safety of Israelis caught up in the attack, such as those held hostage in the Jewish Centre stormed in the early hours of this morning.

Seventeen commandos abseiled onto the roof of Nariman House, while snipers peppered the building with covering fire. The two year old son of Rabbi Gavriel Noach Holtzberg, the main representative at the Jewish Centre, was rescued along with some other hostages but this morning gunshots and explosions still echoed around the building.

The security experts' criticism came as it emerged that Mr Barak had offered Mayankote Kelath Narayanan, India's National Security adviser, any assistance possible, either humanitarian or professional.

"Barak offered Israel's help in an advisory capacity and in any other way it could be of assistance, be it humanitarian or professional," it reported.

The two countries have close defence ties. India has bought more than $5 billion worth of Israeli equipment

India does not take outside help in crisis may be later to investigate it has also adopted the policy of no-negotiations after Indian Airlines hijack.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Ok will need to send Indian Commandos for training but Where ? I agree there may be some lapses, but every such forces have their way of action and logic.

GP you need not provide explainations. The guys who went there knew what they were doing, unlike some who act like they bite the bullet every day. The person you provided explaination is nether a pro nor a trained person, why should you give two hoots about his opinion. Shame how he uses every misfortune to take potshots

Regards
IPF

 

[XYON]

Israel : India's rescue efforts 'premature and badly planned'

Israel defence officials have criticised the way Indian security forces have handled the terror attacks in Bombay, after it appeared that India turned down their offer of help to defeat the militants.

The officials, from Israel's security forces, told The Jerusalem Post that the Indian troops prematurely stormed the besieged hotels where militants were holding hostages, risking lives in the process.

Indian counter-terrorist forces were well trained but failed to gather sufficient intelligence before engaging the terrorists, they said.

"In hostage situations, the first thing the forces are supposed to do is assemble at the scene and begin collecting intelligence," said a former official in Shin Bet, the Israel Security Agency

"In this case, it appears that the forces showed up at the scene and immediately began exchanging fire with the terrorists instead of first taking control of the area," he said.

Ehud Barak, the Defence Minister, has expressed his concerns about the safety of Israelis caught up in the attack, such as those held hostage in the Jewish Centre stormed in the early hours of this morning.

Seventeen commandos abseiled onto the roof of Nariman House, while snipers peppered the building with covering fire. The two year old son of Rabbi Gavriel Noach Holtzberg, the main representative at the Jewish Centre, was rescued along with some other hostages but this morning gunshots and explosions still echoed around the building.

The security experts' criticism came as it emerged that Mr Barak had offered Mayankote Kelath Narayanan, India's National Security adviser, any assistance possible, either humanitarian or professional.

"Barak offered Israel's help in an advisory capacity and in any other way it could be of assistance, be it humanitarian or professional," it reported.

The two countries have close defence ties. India has bought more than $5 billion worth of Israeli equipment

Surprisingly! the NSG and the Indian Army that was used in the operation were using predominantly Russian Sniper Rifles, German HK MP-5, and German HK Sniper Rifles! The bullet proof jackets they were wearing looked locally made as did the helmets (under JV from Israel?). The NSG operations were at best mediocre if not down-right un-professional! I have seen better SWAT team in more complex situations do better with lesser gear.

And then comes the Bollywoodland Indian Media and its essentially uninformed public. All these operations were being carried out blatantly (explosions, firings etc) with public standing outside cheering like it was a Pakistan-India Cricket Match!!!!

Once thing is for sure, the way NSG has conducted itself in these operations in Mumbai they have exposed their incompetence to the entire military world thanks again to the vibrant Indian media!

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Israel : India's rescue efforts 'premature and badly planned'

Israel defence officials have criticised the way Indian security forces have handled the terror attacks in Bombay, after it appeared that India turned down their offer of help to defeat the militants.

The officials, from Israel's security forces, told The Jerusalem Post that the Indian troops prematurely stormed the besieged hotels where militants were holding hostages, risking lives in the process.

Indian counter-terrorist forces were well trained but failed to gather sufficient intelligence before engaging the terrorists, they said.

"In hostage situations, the first thing the forces are supposed to do is assemble at the scene and begin collecting intelligence," said a former official in Shin Bet, the Israel Security Agency

"In this case, it appears that the forces showed up at the scene and immediately began exchanging fire with the terrorists instead of first taking control of the area," he said.

Ehud Barak, the Defence Minister, has expressed his concerns about the safety of Israelis caught up in the attack, such as those held hostage in the Jewish Centre stormed in the early hours of this morning.

Seventeen commandos abseiled onto the roof of Nariman House, while snipers peppered the building with covering fire. The two year old son of Rabbi Gavriel Noach Holtzberg, the main representative at the Jewish Centre, was rescued along with some other hostages but this morning gunshots and explosions still echoed around the building.

The security experts' criticism came as it emerged that Mr Barak had offered Mayankote Kelath Narayanan, India's National Security adviser, any assistance possible, either humanitarian or professional.

"Barak offered Israel's help in an advisory capacity and in any other way it could be of assistance, be it humanitarian or professional," it reported.

The two countries have close defence ties. India has bought more than $5 billion worth of Israeli equipment

Every nation has skeletons in its closet. All have terrible records of botching up. Israel is no different, Ask Muki Betsa who was second in command in the famed Entebee operation, how he terribly screwed up a his previous mission resultng in several deaths, The Germans did it in Munic Olympics, Russians did it in Moscow Theatre and Beslan, US botched up in the deserts of Iran, Pakistan botched up Lal Masjid. Frankly it dosen't mean the men are to be blamed, rather there are a plethora of variables that determine the outcome and if one does not work there is a good chance the entire mission could not turn out to be ideal

 

[Smooth Operator]

Pakistanis here appear to be disappointed with the failure of the real purpose of the Mumbai attacks,which was to carry out large scale massacre,through the physical destruction of the Taj and Oberoi-Trident Hotels........

I'm not sure i can share the disappointment.

With regards to the counter terror tactics employed by our special forces,or its supposedly deficiencies,according to bunch of arm chair experts here,you may remember the Beslan tragedy where 30 odd Muslim terrorists held Hundreds as hostages,most of them little school children.at the end of the 3 day hostage crisis ,more than 400 hostages where dead and i'm sure the school at beslan did not present even remotely the geometrical complexity that the 400 room strong Victorian style hotel, that is Taj Heritage(and oberoi and Trident)presented.

150 civilian fatalities at a hotel,that reportedly hosts 1000 people on any given day(not including Oberoi-Trident)is still gruesome enough,but could have been worst.........

Islamist apologists and like minded folks may have reason to be disappointed,I'm sure you must have been the most optimistic on the count of the casualties.

P.S:Why do chicoms have such inferiority complex,well he is banned so let it be.

 

[Munir]

Pakistanis here appear to be disappointed with the failure of the real purpose of the Mumbai attacks,which was to carry out large scale massacre,through the physical destruction of the Taj and Oberoi-Trident Hotels........

I'm not sure i can share the disappointment.

With regards to the counter terror tactics employed by our special forces,or its supposedly deficiencies,according to bunch of arm chair experts here,you may remember the Beslan tragedy where 30 odd Muslim terrorists held Hundreds as hostages,most of them little school children.at the end of the 3 day hostage crisis ,more than 400 hostages where dead and i'm sure the school at beslan did not present even remotely the geometrical complexity that the 400 room strong Victorian style hotel, that is Taj Heritage(and oberoi and Trident)presented.

150 civilian fatalities at a hotel,that reportedly hosts 1000 people on any given day(not including Oberoi-Trident)is still gruesome enough,but could have been worst.........

Islamist apologists and like minded folks may have reason to be disappointed,I'm sure you must have been the most optimistic on the count of the casualties.

P.S:Why do chicoms have such inferiority complex,well he is banned so let it be.

Smoothy boy... Besloan was bad action by Russian. Just like the use of gas in Moscow... Do not try to shuffle everything towards Pakistani. It is your war, it is your pathetic performance... Your best friend Israel tells you right at your face. Instead of relating it to Islamist or whatever... These guys have performed pretty superb against pretty pathetic national defence. If a superpower is not able to handle children then we wils ee what happens if you want a real war. So, please close your mouth before pointing again...

Whether is was a success... Well, the children that did this are all over the world news. They reched their goals. They had accepted death anyway. Whether you do not agree with their ideology or not... Just try to understand the reasons. Those are more important then that BS shouting that is al over Indian media and posters.

 

[Vinod2070]

GP you need not provide explainations. The guys who went there knew what they were doing, unlike some who act like they bite the bullet every day. The person you provided explaination is nether a pro nor a trained person, why should you give two hoots about his opinion. Shame how he uses every misfortune to take potshots

Regards
IPF

Exactly right. Let them be, one knows now the people who just rant and who engage in constructive debate.

 

[Bull]

I think they failed in every part... But let us wait a few days when the facts will be published...


If international media and specialist are saying that it was poor performance, then your remark is a bit out of the logic, isn't it? So let us indeed be fair. It was as bad as possible... I am amazed how you keep up the thums with 200 killed and 300 injured...

Multiple locations, NSG had to be rushed in from Delhi, Militants got time to settle in, hostages...Mumbai.

I dont know but i guess, this is called failure because of the time it took. Well these guys would have said a similar thing if they moved fast anf got killed in the booby traps.

There were no hostages at all to rescue, most of them were selected and killed earlier, but there were no intel with the NSG to ascertain that.

And dont forget this was a 400 room massive building with lots of passages and corridors.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Listen if these guys were SSG trained there would be no hotel much less Mumbai. This is domestic terror because these * were working and living in Mumbai for a very long time according to your own intelligence sources, getting Visas for that long from "Faridko**, Pakistan" to Mumbai is not likely, especially being employed as a top chef in swanky areas. Please look at bigger picture. Who has more to gain from this than radical Hindu groups within India. Not even Kashmiri's will benefit in the least from this.

 

[U-571]

yaah right, the indians neglect the bigger picture of it, who has gained the maximum of it, likely, until now!!!

 

[haviZsultan]

yaah right, the indians neglect the bigger picture of it, who has gained the maximum of it, likely, until now!!!

The people who have gained most are the hindu fanatics. There is now more suspicion for muslims and more justification for them to do this sort of thing to muslims playing on the anger of the local hindus after this attack:

Number of criminal cases pending in courts in Gujarat: 4,252
Criminal cases in which charge sheet filed: 2,037
Closed cases due to lack of evidence: 2,032
Closed cases reopened after Supreme Court order: 2,000
Reopened cases in which new arrests made: 830
Reopened cases in which charge sheet filed: 59
New cases registered based on investigation of old cases: 15
Departmental action initiated against investigating/supervisory officers: 114
Murder cases in which 10 or more killed: 11
Rape cases: 43
Cases of looting and arson: 3,800

Most of the cases are not reported lol.

Malegaon blasts were being investigated by some people who for the first time had told the truth about their findings and about how fanatical hindu organizations were working hard to eliminate muslims in India but result was they were killed. The blame as usual put on Pakistan like all other blasts.

Only fanatic hindus have gained from this.

 

[Al-zakir]

Mumbai locals helped us, terrorist tells cops-India-The Times of India


30 Nov 2008, 0006 hrs IST, S Ahmed Ali, TNN

MUMBAI Did some Mumbai locals provide support to the Pakistani terrorists?

Azam Amir Kasab, the only Pakistani terrorist nabbed alive, has revealed names and addresses of at least five people from the city who helped the terror operation.
Sources said that help like, providing shelter, taking them around and showing places, passing information on police stations and nakabandhis were given by these locals. Joint commissioner of police (crime) Rakesh Maria said,"We suspect there could be local assistants but it is subject to verification. It will be very premature to comment on this at this stage as our investigations is going on.''
Kasab has told police that they were sent with a specific mission of targeting Israelis to avenge atrocities on Palestinians. This was why they targetted Nariman House, a complex meant for Israelis. Sources said Kasab's colleagues killed in the operation had stayed in Nariman House earlier.
"They have stayed in Nariman house on rental basis identifying themselves as Malaysian students.'' said a source. Police are trying to find out how Nariman House rooms were given to non-Jews. Police has taken all the records books of for verification. The second target was the CST railway station because casualties would be high.
Crime branch has also recovered several fake identity and credit cards from the belongings of dead terrorists. "All the cards are in different names and of different banks. Now we are at least trying to figure out how they procured credit cards from various banks.'' said Maria. The recovery of so many cards with different names have led Mumbai police to suspect the involvement of ISI.
Though Maria maintained only 10 terrorists had sneaked in, the two blasts in taxis in Wadi Bunder and Vile Parle have led the police to believe there could be possibility of the presence of another two or more terrorists in the city.

 

[Bull]

yaah right, the indians neglect the bigger picture of it, who has gained the maximum of it, likely, until now!!!

I wonder very much as to why US as so fortcoming.

 

[tamir]

Read a few articles in the papers quoting NSG member saying that "they were shooting in the dark and there were dead bodies everywhere".
Why did the responding teams not have night vision equipment?

During the siege in the hotels, the terrorists did not use hostages as human shields. So doesn't make sense for 60+ hour operation to clear 9 terrorists (1 terrorist was captured in the initial hours).

Indian media also reported that a few security men died because their "bulletproof" vests failed. First of all, nothing is bulletproof. I saw a number of security people wearing just soft armor without rifle protection inserts.